Post Reply Comic books or manga: which is lacking direction ?
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Posted 1/1/16
Hi guys :)

First of all I want to wish all of you a happy new year :)

In your opinon, which one lacks direction now ?

Comic books or mangas ?

In my opinon, I really think that some comic books are lacking direction and as much as it pains

me to say it, Marvel comic is one of the big guys who lack direction.

Since the end of Secret Wars, they made a new team of Avengers, a new Uncanny Avengers,

two new X-men groups, a new Guardians of the Galaxy, and a new Ultimates.

Yet with all of these teams, only the X-men team seem to have a direction.

This is my opinon, what;s yours ?

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Posted 1/1/16
comic books are down in the trash. studios choose for them to suck. I think they want to see how long itll take for them to shut down. I could go into a manga shop and find something. not the same for a comic store
JuJu26 
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Posted 1/1/16 , edited 1/1/16
Comic books. Manga has more variety when it comes to genres and themes.

You won't find a comic book here that will go in-depth about tennis and its mechanics, all while providing a good story and set of characters. Same goes for music, cooking, and football.
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Posted 1/1/16
Comics.... as much as it pains me. We need a fresh company to inject something worthwhile into American Comics.
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Posted 1/1/16
Why can't we americans make good stuff anymore!?!
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Posted 1/1/16
Comics I think ..... Manga does have so many cliches sometimes tho.....
About Marvel after creating so many universes maybe they are in a block moment... or they are focus on making movies... -.-
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The American comic book market (mainly referring to DC and Marvel) is pretty saturated with superheroes, so I've never really been all that interested. Not because I dislike superheroes in any way, I just prefer the ways in which supernatural stories are handled in manga than in American comics. (That and $10-12 on 180 to 220 pages of physical content is just more economically viable than 28 pages with 6-8 pages of commercials for $2-3, not even getting into digital publications. My only complaint is that there isn't something akin to Marvel Unlimited for manga)


The_Eye_0_0 wrote:

Hi guys :)

First of all I want to wish all of you a happy new year :)

In your opinon, which one lacks direction now ?

Comic books or mangas ?

In my opinon, I really think that some comic books are lacking direction and as much as it pains

me to say it, Marvel comic is one of the big guys who lack direction.

Since the end of Secret Wars, they made a new team of Avengers, a new Uncanny Avengers,

two new X-men groups, a new Guardians of the Galaxy, and a new Ultimates.

Yet with all of these teams, only the X-men team seem to have a direction.

This is my opinon, what;s yours ?



Now, if I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to have an issue with American comics growing stale or repetitive (correct me if I'm wrong).

To your question, I don't think it's really fair to compare the Japanese and American comic industries in such a way, simply because the way in which they both market are very different. Specifically, I think the fact that new anime about relatively new manga keep readers flocking towards new material in every genre on a season by season basis gives manga a significant edge in this equation. That's in addition to the fact comic that magazines geared towards other genres just seem to be far more prevalent in Japan as a well.

I may have gotten something incorrect in my response. Once again, do correct me if I am indeed wrong in any detail.

With all that being said, I do believe that the crop of webcomic artists are growing more and more promising and unique by the day. I would love to see some American webcomic artists get to share their ideas and style on the big stage and add a bit more variety to the industry. That may be just the "injection" that @HolyDrumstick was talking about. If I saw a shift like that, even I might get interested in buying American comics.
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Posted 1/2/16

raciel218 wrote:

The American comic book market (mainly referring to DC and Marvel) is pretty saturated with superheroes, so I've never really been all that interested. Not because I dislike superheroes in any way, I just prefer the ways in which supernatural stories are handled in manga than in American comics. (That and $10-12 on 180 to 220 pages of physical content is just more economically viable than 28 pages with 6-8 pages of commercials for $2-3, not even getting into digital publications. My only complaint is that there isn't something akin to Marvel Unlimited for manga)


The_Eye_0_0 wrote:

Hi guys :)

First of all I want to wish all of you a happy new year :)

In your opinon, which one lacks direction now ?

Comic books or mangas ?

In my opinon, I really think that some comic books are lacking direction and as much as it pains

me to say it, Marvel comic is one of the big guys who lack direction.

Since the end of Secret Wars, they made a new team of Avengers, a new Uncanny Avengers,

two new X-men groups, a new Guardians of the Galaxy, and a new Ultimates.

Yet with all of these teams, only the X-men team seem to have a direction.

This is my opinon, what;s yours ?



Now, if I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to have an issue with American comics growing stale or repetitive (correct me if I'm wrong).

To your question, I don't think it's really fair to compare the Japanese and American comic industries in such a way, simply because the way in which they both market are very different. Specifically, I think the fact that new anime about relatively new manga keep readers flocking towards new material in every genre on a season by season basis gives manga a significant edge in this equation. That's in addition to the fact comic that magazines geared towards other genres just seem to be far more prevalent in Japan as a well.

I may have gotten something incorrect in my response. Once again, do correct me if I am indeed wrong in any detail.

With all that being said, I do believe that the crop of webcomic artists are growing more and more promising and unique by the day. I would love to see some American webcomic artists get to share their ideas and style on the big stage and add a bit more variety to the industry. That may be just the "injection" that @HolyDrumstick was talking about. If I saw a shift like that, even I might get interested in buying American comics.


Your arrgument does indeed have a point. And no you didn't anything wrong.

My probloem is not with repetitive story, sometimes when you repeat a story with a different structure and a different reason for

repating it is actully good.

Like what Marvel did with Secret Wars, Planet Hulk, and Years of future past.

Those story keept people wondering what will happen, but after that they seem to have goten lost.

As a comic reader, I feel that they have lost track of what they were doing, like they took a wrong turn and are now

lost.

For example, When the all new all different Marvel began, they made a series called Venom: Space Knight, in which

Flash Tompson left the Guardians of the Galaxy and is now in space, I don't understand what's going on so forgive me

for not giving you more detail.

Now instead of making this move, wouldn't been a lot better if Venom became part of the the all new all different Avengers ?

Instead of haveing no directions ?

This is my probloem, new comic book titles with little to no direction.

And yes, you might say that it might be unfir to compare comics to manga, but comics have become something a lot

more then just tools for fun, they became something that has the ability to discuss serious issues like politics and

raceism and so on.

So as comic reader first and an English literature student second, i should compare and see the flaws in both

of them.

That doesn't mean that manga doesn't have any flaws, it just mean that comics' flaws are more visable then the

flaws in the manga.
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Comics for me as well, I think manga is better in almost all regards. However, you should all read Avatar the last airbender the promise, the search and the rift. Those are amazing and are kanon for tlab series and have allot of direction story, character progression etc .
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Posted 1/2/16 , edited 1/2/16

The_Eye_0_0 wrote:



Your arrgument does indeed have a point. And no you didn't anything wrong.

My probloem is not with repetitive story, sometimes when you repeat a story with a different structure and a different reason for

repating it is actully good.

Like what Marvel did with Secret Wars, Planet Hulk, and Years of future past.

Those story keept people wondering what will happen, but after that they seem to have goten lost.

As a comic reader, I feel that they have lost track of what they were doing, like they took a wrong turn and are now

lost.

For example, When the all new all different Marvel began, they made a series called Venom: Space Knight, in which

Flash Tompson left the Guardians of the Galaxy and is now in space, I don't understand what's going on so forgive me

for not giving you more detail.

Now instead of making this move, wouldn't been a lot better if Venom became part of the the all new all different Avengers ?

Instead of haveing no directions ?

This is my probloem, new comic book titles with little to no direction.

And yes, you might say that it might be unfir to compare comics to manga, but comics have become something a lot

more then just tools for fun, they became something that has the ability to discuss serious issues like politics and

raceism and so on.

So as comic reader first and an English literature student second, i should compare and see the flaws in both

of them.

That doesn't mean that manga doesn't have any flaws, it just mean that comics' flaws are more visable then the

flaws in the manga.


Okay, I think I see what you're talking about now. And just to note, I didn't mean in any way to disparage American or any types of comics, as I myself have been in love with the process of comic creation for many years now and understand just how powerful a well written comic can be.

With that being the case though, do you think that the fact that many of these stories are within the same multiverse may be exacerbating the issue? Marvel and DC seem to use this "mechanic" (if you'll allow that term) to their advantage, but the issue with that is when you have these really great arcs like the ones you mentioned, fans do expect that you try to follow through and that simply won't always happen, at least not immediately. It's a fairly unique situation to have a fanbase looking forward to the progression of not just a story, but of an entire publisher specific universe.

On the flip side, inter-universality doesn't really seem to be encouraged by manga publishers, so every new author brings one, or maybe even multiple universes and individual directions. Hell, we could argue that the slice of life genre is built around having no direction. While there are cliches that persist, the separation between individual stories prevents the task of direction from seeming to fall more on a publisher or magazine than the individual writers.

I guess what I'm saying could be illustrated like this: In the American comic book industry, we have the New Avengers, and then we have another set of writers doing Venom: Space Knight, which will upset fans who just wanted venom to join the New Avengers and for more emphasis to be placed on that story. In the Japanese comic industry however, the Avengers and Venom would have been in two completely separate universes from the start, created by two different authors going in different directions, and as such no one could really complain about not using one to enhance the other. These comics may individually have their own issues, but they are relatively small when considering the number of authors, and therefore universes, in play within the publisher.

I could compare Marvel and DC to shonen and seinen, I could compare them to JUMP and Weekly Shonen magazine, I could even compare on a universe-universe or multiverse-universe basis, but because of the differences in how comics are managed within American and Japanese publishers, I'm sure that you too can sense that none of these comparisons fit quite right. The Marvel and DC universes are too vast at this point to fairly be compared to another universe cultivated by a single author. However, to compare Marvel and DC to manga in general essentially feels like comparing a pair of large universes to an entire industry, and comparing by genre simply provides a smaller version of that same issue.

I hope that made sense...
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Posted 1/2/16

raciel218 wrote:


The_Eye_0_0 wrote:



Your arrgument does indeed have a point. And no you didn't anything wrong.

My probloem is not with repetitive story, sometimes when you repeat a story with a different structure and a different reason for

repating it is actully good.

Like what Marvel did with Secret Wars, Planet Hulk, and Years of future past.

Those story keept people wondering what will happen, but after that they seem to have goten lost.

As a comic reader, I feel that they have lost track of what they were doing, like they took a wrong turn and are now

lost.

For example, When the all new all different Marvel began, they made a series called Venom: Space Knight, in which

Flash Tompson left the Guardians of the Galaxy and is now in space, I don't understand what's going on so forgive me

for not giving you more detail.

Now instead of making this move, wouldn't been a lot better if Venom became part of the the all new all different Avengers ?

Instead of haveing no directions ?

This is my probloem, new comic book titles with little to no direction.

And yes, you might say that it might be unfir to compare comics to manga, but comics have become something a lot

more then just tools for fun, they became something that has the ability to discuss serious issues like politics and

raceism and so on.

So as comic reader first and an English literature student second, i should compare and see the flaws in both

of them.

That doesn't mean that manga doesn't have any flaws, it just mean that comics' flaws are more visable then the

flaws in the manga.


Okay, I think I see what you're talking about now. And just to note, I didn't mean in any way to disparage American or any types of comics, as I myself have been in love with the process of comic creation for many years now and understand just how powerful a well written comic can be.

With that being the case though, do you think that the fact that many of these stories are within the same multiverse may be exacerbating the issue? Marvel and DC seem to use this "mechanic" (if you'll allow that term) to their advantage, but the issue with that is when you have these really great arcs like the ones you mentioned, fans do expect that you try to follow through and that simply won't always happen, at least not immediately. It's a fairly unique situation to have a fanbase looking forward to the progression of not just a story, but of an entire publisher specific universe.

On the flip side, inter-universality doesn't really seem to be encouraged by manga publishers, so every new author brings one, or maybe even multiple universes and individual directions. Hell, we could argue that the slice of life genre is built around having no direction. While there are cliches that persist, the separation between individual stories prevents the task of direction from seeming to fall more on a publisher or magazine than the individual writers.

I guess what I'm saying could be illustrated like this: In the American comic book industry, we have the New Avengers, and then we have another set of writers doing Venom: Space Knight, which will upset fans who just wanted venom to join the New Avengers and for more emphasis to be placed on that story. In the Japanese comic industry however, the Avengers and Venom would have been in two completely separate universes from the start, created by two different authors going in different directions, and as such no one could really complain about not using one to enhance the other. These comics may individually have their own issues, but they are relatively small when considering the number of authors, and therefore universes, in play within the publisher.

I could compare Marvel and DC to shonen and seinen, I could compare them to JUMP and Weekly Shonen magazine, I could even compare on a universe-universe or multiverse-universe basis, but because of the differences in how comics are managed within American and Japanese publishers, I'm sure that you too can sense that none of these comparisons fit quite right. The Marvel and DC universes are too vast at this point to fairly be compared to another universe cultivated by a single author. However, to compare Marvel and DC to manga in general essentially feels like comparing a pair of large universes to an entire industry, and comparing by genre simply provides a smaller version of that same issue.

I hope that made sense...


I understand your point.

The availability of more then one universe has not been the problem for Marvel or DC in the past, it is quite the opposite it has

been in thier advantage.

When the new 52 first started I liked reading Earth 2.

But the real issue, is that writers, not all but some, have reached a block that can only bee saved by a long sit down for a long time

but puplishers won't allow that because they have a dead line to sumbit thier work to thier boss.

And Marvel has realized that, that was the reason behind Secret Wars.

The Ultimate universe wasn't going anywhere with it's stories for the last 2 or 3 years, the only advantage that came

from it is the rising popularity of Miles Morales.

As far as mangas haveing many universes, I think it is for the best,

Haveing the reader paying full attention on one universe is the best way that pulls the readers, especially if the events

that are happening in the manga are epic and gets everyone in forums and in puplic talking about it.

And yes, if you compare mangas and comics the comparison won't be a fair one, as in some aspects one is

better then the other for more then one reason.

But the good thing is that Comic book writers and puplishers have realize thier isues and

started finding solutions.

Between Marvel and DC, DC has the upper hand. What proves this is that they are doing a great job with both the

Superman and Batman comics, as well as they are taking thier time with the Justice League comic to have

time to think of what's going to happen after the Darksied Wars, as well as explaining to those who read

the Batman and Superman comics why that are the events that are happeining in the comics that they

are reading are happening.
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Well something that Code Provider noted in one of his recent videos is that American Comic Books only go up in price while Japanese Manga only devalues over time with some exceptions.

With all the Marvel movies coming out and only getting better as the years go on, I think both somewhat lack direction. Obviously both markets have gems but not everything that is being made is gold. Long time series being milked for profit are happening in both markets while still relying on the old time content to push new age content.

I believe Marvel is killing DC on all fronts. (Obviously some of the Batman movies are some of the best superhero movies to date) but with how much good content coming out from Marvel, I believe DC really has a tough time ahead of them. I do not believe the Batman vs Superman movie will be very good since they seemed to have spoiled everything they had in the trailers. Suicide Squad on the other hand is where I believe DC has a chance to regain some of the market since Marvel has dominated it on all fronts. Movies are run by Marvel, TV Shows are run by Marvel & I believe comic book sales are run by Marvel and if they aren't, I think it may be because of the Marvel Unlimited that people are subscribed too.

Where I believe both are slowly on the uprise, both need more direction.
xxJing 
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The thing is that the Comic Books that sell well are basically franchises. They have an established universe, established heroes, etc. You just get people writing stories for them.

Then there are less main stream comic books like Saga and the Walking Dead, which while they have cult followings, just aren't as popular as Marvel and DC stuff. Those types of Comics are more like what you could consider manga. They are original stories in original universes.

Manga's business model, as opposed to American Comics, works around publishers having contracts with artist/writers. The artists/writers give them novel original stories within some set constraints, then they publish them in a magazine that contains many other works from other artists/writers. After a while, if the mangas gain enough popularity then they publish a handful of chapters of the manga in its own compilation graphic novel.

To put it more simply. Mangas in Japan are treated more like Novels in the west are, while Comic Books are generally more treated like television is.
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I gave up trying to keep up with Marvel and DC, they change things around constantly to the point where nothing makes sense anymore. Lately, I've been sticking with Valient and Image comics because they have some good stuff going on.
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