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Post Reply Philosophically, why is killing/murder wrong?
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Posted 1/3/16

Ranwolf wrote:


ahatestory wrote:


You are ignoring that there is a much greater proportion of people not suffering from war or famine today than, say, 1000 years ago. Things are improving; in general life today is far better than it was in centuries past.

Also, how is it a fact that existence is pointless? Who decides that?

What makes you so certain all things will end, for that matter? Humanity today is capable of so much more than it was even 100 years ago; in billions or trillions of years, we may very well be able to extend even the existence of the universe itself. Maybe not, but we won't know until we get there. Why give up, other than that it is easy to do so?


You might really want to redo all of your math..all of it. In the last 200 years alone more people have died as a direct result of warfare and famine then all the rest of human history put together.


More people died, yes, but the population as a whole has also increased to record levels. Like I said, *proportionally* fewer people are dying these ways, and there's not much reason to think things will get worse.
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Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/3/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


ahatestory wrote:


You are ignoring that there is a much greater proportion of people not suffering from war or famine today than, say, 1000 years ago. Things are improving; in general life today is far better than it was in centuries past.

Also, how is it a fact that existence is pointless? Who decides that?

What makes you so certain all things will end, for that matter? Humanity today is capable of so much more than it was even 100 years ago; in billions or trillions of years, we may very well be able to extend even the existence of the universe itself. Maybe not, but we won't know until we get there. Why give up, other than that it is easy to do so?


You might really want to redo all of your math..all of it. In the last 200 years alone more people have died as a direct result of warfare and famine then all the rest of human history put together.


Not by percentage.


Either way you slice it tens of millions is not a greater sum then hundreds of billions mate.
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Posted 1/3/16

VaughanDS wrote:


ahatestory wrote:


VaughanDS wrote:



If the co-existence truly worked then there would be no war or famine due to superiority of hierarchies. The fact that existence in the end is pointless shows that anything we do in the end has no meaning. To that extent I will agree there is no point in hastening death when all things end anyway so destruction is inevitable.

I stand to the fact that it is not worth keeping humans alive but I accept that there is no point in killing. However to go back to OP's question that does not mean to kill them would be wrong in any way, due to the subjectivity of morality.




You are ignoring that there is a much greater proportion of people not suffering from war or famine today than, say, 1000 years ago. Things are improving; in general life today is far better than it was in centuries past.

Also, how is it a fact that existence is pointless? Who decides that?

What makes you so certain all things will end, for that matter? Humanity today is capable of so much more than it was even 100 years ago; in billions or trillions of years, we may very well be able to extend even the existence of the universe itself. Maybe not, but we won't know until we get there. Why give up, other than that it is easy to do so?


Death itself is why existence has no meaning. This is the end result that philosophy shows, life is pointless although existentialism tries to hide this fact, even by making ones own purpose death is still the final result. When all things come to an inevitable end it doesn't matter what you do in your life, it will eventually end. As will the lives of all those around you and those to come. Nothing lasts so why bother existing.


See, I believe humans will, in time, solve death itself. Life expectancy has increased over the years, and recent technological advances have opened up many more possibilities that will likely have an even greater impact than previous advances. Immortality awaits... eventually.
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Posted 1/3/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Either way you slice it tens of millions is not a greater sum then hundreds of billions mate.


No it isn't, but logic would say that the more people you have, the more will suffer. What you are saying is misleading. Life is better now than it ever has been, for the average person. You don't factor in population at all.

Like I said, not by percentage.
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Posted 1/3/16

ahatestory wrote:



More people died, yes, but the population as a whole has also increased to record levels. Like I said, *proportionally* fewer people are dying these ways, and there's not much reason to think things will get worse.


Well it certainly isn't getting any better. Corporations are gaining ever more power and influence over the Political sector. Tensions between the First World and the Third World are ever rising. Countries the world round are stockpiling weapons and training ever larger armies. And ever more farmland is being destroyed...I really could go on for quite awhile here but I think you get the point.
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Posted 1/3/16

Ranwolf wrote:


ahatestory wrote:



More people died, yes, but the population as a whole has also increased to record levels. Like I said, *proportionally* fewer people are dying these ways, and there's not much reason to think things will get worse.


Well it certainly isn't getting any better. Corporations are gaining ever more power and influence over the Political sector. Tensions between the First World and the Third World are ever rising. Countries the world round are stockpiling weapons and training ever larger armies. And ever more farmland is being destroyed...I really could go on for quite awhile here but I think you get the point.


Certainly, mankind has its issues. I just choose not to give up on it.... like some people.
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Posted 1/3/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:



Certainly, mankind has its issues. I just choose not to give up on it.... like some people.


Show me an army willing to fight these issues and I'll make you look like a coward..Ain't seen no army yet mate.
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Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/3/16

Ranwolf wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:



Certainly, mankind has its issues. I just choose not to give up on it.... like some people.


Show me an army willing to fight these issues and I'll make you look like a coward..Ain't seen no army yet mate.


Make me look like a coward? How? I'm not the one trying to run away from issues.

Not sure what an army has to do with it, either. *scratches head* I served 4 years in the USMC....

I guess maybe the Peace Corps or the Humane Society or any other group trying to help mankind or solve world problems would count....

As far as cowards go, I'd say throwing in the towel because of the world's issues is about as cowardly as it gets...
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Posted 1/3/16

Ranwolf wrote:


ahatestory wrote:



More people died, yes, but the population as a whole has also increased to record levels. Like I said, *proportionally* fewer people are dying these ways, and there's not much reason to think things will get worse.


Well it certainly isn't getting any better. Corporations are gaining ever more power and influence over the Political sector. Tensions between the First World and the Third World are ever rising. Countries the world round are stockpiling weapons and training ever larger armies. And ever more farmland is being destroyed...I really could go on for quite awhile here but I think you get the point.


Corporations need people alive to buy their stuff. First world countries benefit from people being alive to make their stuff. Third world countries benefit from people being alive to buy the stuff they want to sell. The last war that involved the world on a massive scale ended 70 years ago. Since seeing how devastating such wars can be, there's been a real interest in avoiding another one.

So far as farmland, I'd have to look into that one, but let's not forget that people are trying to improve our means of producing food through technology and science.

I don't agree that the reasons you've given really support a prediction that war and famine will become greater bringers of death. If there's anything to fear, it is, ironically, that individuals are able to gain greater power today than they once were; with the right weapon, an individual or small group of people may be able to cause immeasurable death.
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Posted 1/3/16
I cannot speak for everyone, but I believe murder is wrong because it violates the fundamental precepts of society. Specifically, the right of self-ownership and thus by extension self-determination. The idea that you own yourself and nobody has a right to do anything to you without your consent is, or at least should be, the cornerstone of law and society.

There are as many reasons for murder as there murders.
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Posted 1/3/16
Because nobody uses the entire body. They usually just kill it and leave it, bury it or donate it, instead of using the meat and tanning the hide.

Oh wait. Wrong animal.

Murder is bad because it causes people to lose assets, be it emotional, monetary, etc..
Killing in self defense isn't branded the same way because you're just saving yourself from the murderer.

We are really smart animals. We slaughter and do horrible things to lesser ones every day. Hell, we do horrible things to other humans every day. If the majority truly wanted peace, we'd force it on everyone else, in the true human fashion. Peace doesn't make profits, though, so we may never have it. People like to be bad, and/or do bad things because society, or other humans have forced them to resort to it.
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Posted 1/3/16



Self defense is a tricky thing.
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Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/3/16

qualeshia3 wrote:




Self defense is a tricky thing.


It is. But there's a higher chance you won't go to jail compared to premeditated murder.
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Posted 1/3/16



True.
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Posted 1/3/16
It's neither right or wrong, killing is thought as negative since god knows how many years.

Some poor bugger got killed and he was in pain, he didn't like it etc so it;s wrong because it hurts us,
but it's neither bad because some animals get killed, they feel pain- they may scream or squeal a little
but nothing more than that. We make a big deal out of it since we're very emotional, so to protect our
mentality- it's wrong.

I also strongly agree with HolyDrumstick, I don't kill people I hate simply because I want to live my life and not
be in prison
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