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Post Reply Immortality, human body or android body
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Posted 1/6/16

fredreload wrote:

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to live on forever. Or you're saying the current technology cannot make it?


If you are referring to my posts, I've never said there is anything wrong with wanting to live forever. Rather, I've just pointed out the flaws in the suggested method of doing so. An arbitrarily advanced medical system that can reverse the effects of aging and heal any wound or disease is a much more likely candidate for supplying immortality than making copies of yourself in another brain or a computer. The real world doesn't work like the one in Ghost in the Shell.
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Posted 1/6/16
Well I did look into the DNA damage theory of aging and with the currently medical advancement on CRISPR method does give you the freedom in modifying the genetics. With the current research on gene decode with supercomputer it does gets us closer in identifying different genetic traits. But I haven't heard any significant idea on reverse aging. I think by keeping a person in the current age would be the step of progress.
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Posted 1/6/16

EarthLight22 wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Well if you've seen Avenger 2 on how they were going to transfer Ultron's consciousness to the cyborg body then you know that it's possible if you run the electrical synapses faster than the consciousness(Yes, it is a movie). I've mentioned that human electrical synapse runs at 150m/s and it is possible to run faster than that speed and create a bridge between the two brains, or to synchronize them. So you are not duplicating the consciousness but rather transfer it from one brain to the other using a flood fill algorithm.
The brain itself generate consciousness similar to a combination of transistors or logic gates(speculating). If you say that your brain "is" consciousness then the only possible conclusion would be that everyone's brain is different, or else everyone would just be your consciousness. But since everyone's brain structure is pretty much the same(well I suppose you have a point here since I'm contradicting myself). Either way you can create an identical brain structure using 3d printing, then just flood fill it with your own electrical synapses.


What you've posted in s a bit jumbled, but I'll try and reply as best I can. I'm a huge fan of science fiction. The problem of continuity of existence versus duplication, whether in reference to uploading a consciousness or using some kind of teleport, is often badly handled. In Star Trek the Next Generation for example, sometimes the transporter destroys and then recreates things (like in episodes where they get extra copies of people out of it) and sometimes transporting is portrayed as being a means of travel where you are conscious during the entire process. I don't see how what takes place in the Avengers is any more realistic or elegant.

I think you might be getting hung up on the word "transfer". Of course it seems plausible that we could duplicate the contents of a brain given sufficiently advanced technology. But that's not a valid path to immortality. If you create a copy of my brain, you are just creating a second me in a different brain. I don't know about you, but my idea of immortality is based around the continued existence of my own person, not the fact that some version of myself might be able to live on endlessly.

When people talk about uploading themselves to a computer, I think they usually want to imagine a future like Ghost in the Shell where human consciousness can somehow be expanded so that you can hop between bodies ( not by creating a copy of yourself) and the Internet freely and still be the same individual throughout. That doesn't seem at all realistic.



fredreload wrote:

No one says you can't transfer a computer to another computer "on", it's just never been done before, an idea known as hot swapping .


P.S. I respect all ideas here, just don't go giving me nightmares


How does being able to remove and replace parts of a computer while the computer is any way relate to the fact that if you upload a copy of yourself to another computer or another brain, you will just be making a copy rather than moving your consciousness somewhere else?



Well the idea about creating a second brain is that the second brain would have "no" electrical synapse to boot. We agree that if the second brain does not have any electrical synapse it does not have consciousness. What I am thinking is to transfer the electrical synapse from the first brain to the second brain by creating a link. The electrical synapse is not a stream, but synapses that as long as it travels at 150m/s to the second brain and back in a loop it should get the second brain to "activate" along with it. Well so what exactly is consciousness, my first thought is that this electrical synapse is consciousness, but then after some studying I come to think that logic gates as how a computer behave is consciousness. So if you say that by transferring this electrical synapse to the second brain would create a second "separate" version of yourself, it could be true. My idea is that by running and synchronizing the electrical synapse between the two brain or (logic gates) I can somehow "swap" my consciousness over. to the other brain, this is a bit of a speculation on my part.
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Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

EarthLight22 wrote:
How does being able to remove and replace parts of a computer while the computer is any way relate to the fact that if you upload a copy of yourself to another computer or another brain, you will just be making a copy rather than moving your consciousness somewhere else?

Think of it more as distributed computing. One piece of software running simultaneously on many computers. Adding or removing a few pieces of hardware has no impact on the software.

With neural integration, the physical body may just be one, small, part of your total self.




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Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16



I'll take a cyborg body please.
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16
Third option: I would love to have my consciousness loaded into a computer. Imagine having no physical body form, how amazing it would be to never feel fatigue, pain or wounds. Needing no sleep, food or exercise.

Sometimes I wonder if human evolution will lead down that path, I think it might. If such technology ever happens, we'll be able to traverse through space and time until the very end. AI robots will keep maintenance and do all the physical work, while we control and program.

There's also no need for death, and no need for births.

I feel like I have a plotline for a novel, lol.
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Posted 1/6/16

Dariamus wrote:


EarthLight22 wrote:
How does being able to remove and replace parts of a computer while the computer is any way relate to the fact that if you upload a copy of yourself to another computer or another brain, you will just be making a copy rather than moving your consciousness somewhere else?

Think of it more as distributed computing. One piece of software running simultaneously on many computers. Adding or removing a few pieces of hardware has no impact on the software.

With neural integration, the physical body may just be one, small, part of your total self.






Human brains don't work like computers, and while the exact nature of consciousness remains a mystery, I think it is a mistake to compare consciousness to software. Removing (or damaging) areas of the human brain most certainly does have impact on the person. We are not computers. The idea of connecting devices to the human brain is very exciting, but I don't see how that would in any way make the human brain redundant. Unless you'd like to add the concept of a soul to the discussion (and I don't think that helps here), human consciousness somehow arises from the brain alone. Adding extra hardware alongside the brain could have all sorts of benefits, but I don't see how that escapes the fundamental problem that the brain is the key part of what allows us to be ourselves.

We already have devices that allow us to store information outside of ourselves. Allowing a direct link between a brain and a computer network might allow for improved memory or enhanced medical care (like being able to restore memories or neurological function in the case of brain damage), but it does nothing in terms of allowing consciousness to persist if the brain dies. If you posit a connection between a brain and a computer system very much like a brain, you're still back to the problem of relying on a duplicate of yourself to give you immortality. It just doesn't work.
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Posted 1/6/16
No thank you...
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Posted 1/6/16

EarthLight22 wrote:
Human brains don't work like computers, and while the exact nature of consciousness remains a mystery, I think it is a mistake to compare consciousness to software. Removing (or damaging) areas of the human brain most certainly does have impact on the person. We are not computers. The idea of connecting devices to the human brain is very exciting, but I don't see how that would in any way make the human brain redundant. Unless you'd like to add the concept of a soul to the discussion (and I don't think that helps here), human consciousness somehow arises from the brain alone. Adding extra hardware alongside the brain could have all sorts of benefits, but I don't see how that escapes the fundamental problem that the brain is the key part of what allows us to be ourselves.

We already have devices that allow us to store information outside of ourselves. Allowing a direct link between a brain and a computer network might allow for improved memory or enhanced medical care (like being able to restore memories or neurological function in the case of brain damage), but it does nothing in terms of allowing consciousness to persist if the brain dies. If you posit a connection between a brain and a computer system very much like a brain, you're still back to the problem of relying on a duplicate of yourself to give you immortality. It just doesn't work.

The human brain is most certainly a biological computer and, at the most fundamental level, we already understand how the individual components work. There is nothing mysterious about how an individual synapse works. Simulating a few thousand synapses in software is trivial. Simulating a trillion synapses acting in parallel is beyond current computing capacities.

The other issue is mapping. While great progress has been made in mapping the neural circuitry of the human brain, much work remains to be done. It could take another decade to fully map the human brain.

Less complex creatures, like earthworms, have been fully mapped and simulated in software.

Humms 
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Posted 1/6/16
Give me bionic eyes. And one bionic left hand that mimics my right so I can be ambidextrous. that is all........
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Posted 1/6/16
2. Android body.

A machine is a machine, regardless of what it's made of. A body with readily replaceable parts and easy backup is clearly superior to the biological material that ages and withers off and doesn't regenerate as well as it used to.

The question in my mind is whether we would have the same sort of consciousness if we were in android bodies. If the brain functions via the same mechanisms, I think we would have the same sort of consciousness we have now.
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Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16
Android, but only if it's extremely customizable. I'm attached to this form, you know. I think the integration of our biological forms and machinery (cyborgs) is closer to our horizon though. In order to be an android, your consciousness would have to be converted and transferred into digital form. This isn't Chappie. Good luck.

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Posted 1/7/16

ayaundwolf wrote:

Android, but only if it's extremely customizable. I'm attached to this form, you know. I think the integration of our biological forms and machinery (cyborgs) is closer to our horizon though. In order to be an android, your consciousness would have to be converted and transferred into digital form. This isn't Chappie. Good luck.



Well my idea is to have a synthetic brain that can create membrane potential. As long as you have membrane potential you can create electrical synapses and that should be enough to sustain consciousness. Of course you can always 3d print a real brain with individual neurons and eventually a human body, but I think it would not be as durable as 3d print a brain with synthetic neuron made of nanotube materials, that supports membrane potential and electrical synapses. Chappie movie has a good idea about transferring consciousness, my idea of cyborg would resemble that of David 8 from Prometheus.
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Posted 1/7/16

fredreload wrote:


ayaundwolf wrote:

Android, but only if it's extremely customizable. I'm attached to this form, you know. I think the integration of our biological forms and machinery (cyborgs) is closer to our horizon though. In order to be an android, your consciousness would have to be converted and transferred into digital form. This isn't Chappie. Good luck.



Well my idea is to have a synthetic brain that can create membrane potential. As long as you have membrane potential you can create electrical synapses and that should be enough to sustain consciousness. Of course you can always 3d print a real brain with individual neurons and eventually a human body, but I think it would not be as durable as 3d print a brain with synthetic neuron made of nanotube materials, that supports membrane potential and electrical synapses. Chappie movie has a good idea about transferring consciousness, my idea of cyborg would resemble that of David 8 from Prometheus.


I think consciousness is very much still an untested field in the scientific community. At best, we can determine that it's governed by the same laws surrounding the rest of our universe concerning matter. I think the biggest problem for us will always be the transfer of consciousness, rather than the vessel itself. That's not to say it will never happens. Scientists are continually becoming more adept (well, their machines are) at measuring brain activity and how it correlates to images and emotions. If you've ever seen the "dream machine" or the experiment at Berkeley that involved recreating video from what the participants were seeing on youtube while inside an mri, it's all very fascinating stuff.

Oh a side note, David was a synthetic, like Bishop, which are considered androids. I don't think they have any pertinent biological features, and he most certainly was never human. It's a little confusing considering the timelines, to think that Bishop was cutting edge in Alien, yet Prometheus is what, 150 years prior? David seems every bit as capable.
Posted 1/7/16 , edited 1/7/16
I always thought it would be nice to become a cyborg or achieve some form of immortality via consciousness transference. Recently, I've kind of changed my mind about that. I figured I don't want to be immortal. I want to stay ephemeral... like a flower that blooms only once, reaching its height of beauty only for a moment before it withers and dies. To be remembered only by those who were there to see it blossom... That's more suitable to a romantic like myself, I think.
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