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Post Reply Is sexual orientation determined at birth?
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25 / F / New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1/4/16


Oh sorry about that.
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Posted 1/4/16

qualeshia3 wrote:



Oh sorry about that.


No need! I firmly believe that everyone should do and say what they wish on the interwebs, so go ahead!
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Posted 1/4/16



Okay!
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Posted 1/4/16
Yes, it's by birth. However someone can be unsure of what they like
Posted 1/4/16

GrandMasterTime wrote:


40YearOldVirgin wrote:

I don't know.
It's not something that is clear as day like sex determination where it's either xx or xy. It could be genetics or it could be hormones released in the womb during pregnancy.

It's not something you can consciously choose though.


Happy birthday.


Thanks, didn't expect that.
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Posted 1/4/16 , edited 1/4/16
I don't think so.

I believe sexuality can and usually does evolve over time. While there may be a preference one way or another that is determined by genetics there are other aspects that may influence your sexuality like social factors, psychological issues, experiences, or even a specific person.
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Posted 1/4/16
I'm not really sure.

I can't even remember in my case when i started to feel an inclination towards one gender or the other. I think I just kind of gradually learned through experience that I prefer men but that sounds very biased.. however There is definitely a fair amount of people of both genders i find attractive.
I do remember the first person I ever got very interested in was a guy but I was very young and didn't really understand because my family was fairly conservative so I thought I just wanted to be "really good friends" with him. which included weird marriage fantasies. yup, totally how you befriend someone. Didn't really realize it was "okay" to be interested in guys until high school honestly.
I think it really depends on the person. Not sure.

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Posted 1/4/16 , edited 1/4/16
i had a weird sexual experience with a boy when I was young. later fell in love with a girl. she broke my heart lol, later got into guys a bit, got gf, we broke up, got back into guys. im in a weird cycle lol. i dont think its determined at birth but i guess you could argue I was born slightly bi
Posted 1/4/16

PrinceJudar wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

TL:DR Sexuality can change, but it can't be changed.


Eh, I'm not sure about that. I get what you're trying to go for, you're thinking like gay-to-straight camps where they attempt to forcefully push one way or another. Which I agree is wholly wrong.

I think my answer falls onto 'yes and no' even still. Individuals are much too complex.

Take for example forcefully shoving math down a child's throat despite their frustrations or struggles with the subject. Some do eventually 'click' with it. Others...well, it doesn't particularly work. Sometimes it even works a different way.

Goes back to that it really depends deal.

It's hard when we get onto subjects delving into the why's and how's of human behavior. Might as well generate an infinite sized randomly generated array...



We can get into trends, but honestly it's hard to determine even that in such circumstance.


You're right, it does differ on a case by case basis. I wasn't really talking about camps, but over all. Quite frankly, I don't think there's a method that'll work consistently for all people.
Posted 1/4/16
I'm not going to be sacrificed to the trans god so I'm keeping my mouth shut.
Posted 1/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Sexual Orientation is much more fluid than you think.


Even in the LGBT community, they can't decide for themselves if it's a choice or not.

I would argue that sexual orientation is a choice.


The general consensus is they do not have a choice in the LGBT community.


Correct, they would literally be thrown out if they dissented.


Well, there's a factual basis, but generally the anti LGBT movement works in two ways. They assume it's a choice, and they assume its the wrong choice.


I've read over hundreds of reports from the APA, Goldstien, etc. Not one of them gives real convincing evidence. Choice means something can change, there is evidence of sexual orientation changing, even within the LGBT community, they just don't want to admit it.

It would be easy to argue that having a homosexual lifestyle is bad, but it's not ALWAYS bad. Works pretty well if you don't want kids.

Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it, which may be true, but generally our desires control us. Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality. You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible. Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us. Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household.

----------------------
"Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it," This isn't what I would argue, I would argue that choice is possible if there is an ability to change. If the characteristic is mutable. If there can be no change, there is no choice.

"which may be true, but generally our desires control us." No, I don't think that is true. People have many urges inside of them that they are 100% capable of controlling. You seem to mistake that a trait such as homosexuality is a state of being, when it's a behavior that arises from a state of being. You aren't a rapist, even if you feel like raping people, until you have raped. (Just an example).

" Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality." We already did it with sheep in 2006. (I love sheep btw, very similar to human brains :D) Human trials are being banned, but not for scientific reasons.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/curing_gay_sheep_/

"You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible."

It's not irresponsible, it's just not practical. Like many things, you can't just go from being obese to skinny for instance. Things that take time to change need time to change, but only through choice and no outside interference.


"Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us." I don't think it's rudimentary at all. We have a very good understanding of chemicals in our body right now more than we ever have, and it's not outside the realm of reality to experiment, safety.

"Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. " With all due respect, chemical imbalances aren't the same thing as memory loss, which actually deals in some instances with the DEATH of the actual cell rather than the lack of or excess of chemical transistors.


"Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household." Yes, and even the studies that suggest being gay is something your born with, are having hard times of being reproducible.

If it can change, within a human lifetime, it's a mutable characteristic. That is all that I'm arguing.





Posted 1/5/16 , edited 1/5/16

WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Sexual Orientation is much more fluid than you think.


Even in the LGBT community, they can't decide for themselves if it's a choice or not.

I would argue that sexual orientation is a choice.


The general consensus is they do not have a choice in the LGBT community.


Correct, they would literally be thrown out if they dissented.


Well, there's a factual basis, but generally the anti LGBT movement works in two ways. They assume it's a choice, and they assume its the wrong choice.


I've read over hundreds of reports from the APA, Goldstien, etc. Not one of them gives real convincing evidence. Choice means something can change, there is evidence of sexual orientation changing, even within the LGBT community, they just don't want to admit it.

It would be easy to argue that having a homosexual lifestyle is bad, but it's not ALWAYS bad. Works pretty well if you don't want kids.

Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it, which may be true, but generally our desires control us. Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality. You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible. Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us. Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household.

----------------------
"Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it," This isn't what I would argue, I would argue that choice is possible if there is an ability to change. If the characteristic is mutable. If there can be no change, there is no choice.

"which may be true, but generally our desires control us." No, I don't think that is true. People have many urges inside of them that they are 100% capable of controlling. You seem to mistake that a trait such as homosexuality is a state of being, when it's a behavior that arises from a state of being. You aren't a rapist, even if you feel like raping people, until you have raped. (Just an example).

It was whatcha call a reversal, and now that I think about it, somewhat true. What I meant was, millions of people look to satiate their lust. Most of them eventually search for a partner, and this is the general scenario I meant, not rapists.

" Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality." We already did it with sheep in 2006. (I love sheep btw, very similar to human brains :D) Human trials are being banned, but not for scientific reasons.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/curing_gay_sheep_/

"You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible."

It's not irresponsible, it's just not practical. Like many things, you can't just go from being obese to skinny for instance. Things that take time to change need time to change, but only through choice and no outside interference.
It kinda is. To suggest it could easily be changeable, especially with current technology, ignores all the complexities about the human brain.

"Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us." I don't think it's rudimentary at all. We have a very good understanding of chemicals in our body right now more than we ever have, and it's not outside the realm of reality to experiment, safety.

"Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. " With all due respect, chemical imbalances aren't the same thing as memory loss, which actually deals in some instances with the DEATH of the actual cell rather than the lack of or excess of chemical transistors.


"Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household." Yes, and even the studies that suggest being gay is something your born with, are having hard times of being reproducible.

If it can change, within a human lifetime, it's a mutable characteristic. That is all that I'm arguing.
Mutable means liable to change? There are studies studying the effect of "late term lesbians" that support your claim. I also agree as well.







Posted 1/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Sexual Orientation is much more fluid than you think.


Even in the LGBT community, they can't decide for themselves if it's a choice or not.

I would argue that sexual orientation is a choice.


The general consensus is they do not have a choice in the LGBT community.


Correct, they would literally be thrown out if they dissented.


Well, there's a factual basis, but generally the anti LGBT movement works in two ways. They assume it's a choice, and they assume its the wrong choice.


I've read over hundreds of reports from the APA, Goldstien, etc. Not one of them gives real convincing evidence. Choice means something can change, there is evidence of sexual orientation changing, even within the LGBT community, they just don't want to admit it.

It would be easy to argue that having a homosexual lifestyle is bad, but it's not ALWAYS bad. Works pretty well if you don't want kids.

Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it, which may be true, but generally our desires control us. Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality. You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible. Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us. Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household.

----------------------
"Choice would imply you have a degree of control of it," This isn't what I would argue, I would argue that choice is possible if there is an ability to change. If the characteristic is mutable. If there can be no change, there is no choice.

"which may be true, but generally our desires control us." No, I don't think that is true. People have many urges inside of them that they are 100% capable of controlling. You seem to mistake that a trait such as homosexuality is a state of being, when it's a behavior that arises from a state of being. You aren't a rapist, even if you feel like raping people, until you have raped. (Just an example).

It was whatcha call a reversal, and now that I think about it, somewhat true. What I meant was, millions of people look to satiate their lust. Most of them eventually search for a partner, and this is the general scenario I meant, not rapists.

" Now, perhaps in the future there may exist treatment to change one's brain chemicals and all that to radically alter sexuality." We already did it with sheep in 2006. (I love sheep btw, very similar to human brains :D) Human trials are being banned, but not for scientific reasons.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/curing_gay_sheep_/

"You can change brain chemicals, you can change your environment at later stages of your life, but to suggest you can change sexuality like you change clothes is downright irresponsible."

It's not irresponsible, it's just not practical. Like many things, you can't just go from being obese to skinny for instance. Things that take time to change need time to change, but only through choice and no outside interference.
It kinda is. To suggest it could easily be changeable, especially with current technology, ignores all the complexities about the human brain.

"Especially given our rudimentary understanding of how our chemicals affect us." I don't think it's rudimentary at all. We have a very good understanding of chemicals in our body right now more than we ever have, and it's not outside the realm of reality to experiment, safety.

"Just because a blow to our head could give us amnesia does not mean we can merely purge memories nor have control over which memories to purge, and sexuality is expected to be like that. " With all due respect, chemical imbalances aren't the same thing as memory loss, which actually deals in some instances with the DEATH of the actual cell rather than the lack of or excess of chemical transistors.


"Now there are quite a number of suggestions saying that environmental factors can be attributes to sexuality, but it differs on a case by case basis, with no real consistency for most, whether they include a dislike of women to being in a gay household." Yes, and even the studies that suggest being gay is something your born with, are having hard times of being reproducible.

If it can change, within a human lifetime, it's a mutable characteristic. That is all that I'm arguing.
Mutable means liable to change? There are studies studying the effect of "late term lesbians" that support your claim. I also agree as well.










"It was whatcha call a reversal, and now that I think about it, somewhat true. What I meant was, millions of people look to satiate their lust. Most of them eventually search for a partner, and this is the general scenario I meant, not rapists."

This scenario is able to be applied elsewhere, but I get your point.

“It kinda is. To suggest it could easily be changeable, especially with current technology, ignores all the complexities about the human brain. “

I didn't suggest it was “Easily” changeable. The brain has an amazing ability to adapt, but it's not “easy” in a sense. What difficulty it would be, I really don't know. Is it practical at the moment? Well I'm no sure about that either, but that's not a reason to not see if it is or isn’t. The APA for instance says no, but all they do is link Religious Conversion Therapy, and ignore all secular efforts in the area.

“Mutable means liable to change? “ I would argue that a trait is simply having the capacity to change. I don't know what “Liable to change means”.

“There are studies studying the effect of "late term lesbians" that support your claim. I also agree as well. “ Yes, I think age is the biggest factor to my personally.
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Posted 1/5/16

Yuki_Narukami wrote:

I'm not going to be sacrificed to the trans god so I'm keeping my mouth shut.


Why would anyone do that i wonder? Now for sexual orientation....i think it's not something you born with,but grow into. How could a child before puberty have an sexual orientation when his/her body isn't mature enough to even attempt sexual act? Such things start to appear when you go trough puberty. Hence trough dispensing of hormones and developing preferences....one grows on very subconscious level towards his/her sexual orientation. In other words you cant exactly decide to be gay/straight or whatever.
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Posted 1/5/16
The idea of biological sexual orientation is incompatible with the idea that gender is just a social construct.

If a person could really be 100% incompatible romantically with half the species based on gender, that would mean that there is some deeper significance to gender than the social aspects of it.

The idea that gender has deeper significance than as a social construct is problematic because it justifies gender discrimination.

So, there is no sexual orientation because there is no gender. If you want to distinguish between M-> M, F-> M, M-> F, and F-> F, but you know to replace "M" and "F" with "H" (because we're all just human), it all becomes H->H. If it's that important that your partner has something big to stick in you, or something tight to stick something in, go buy a plastic one and stop wasting a real person's time.

(( and if you want to say that there are psychological studies that show that women are more likely to think A over B than men, or something like that, those studies are flawed. Unless they have subjects in the study from every culture in the world, and subjects from a hypothetical culture that doesn't acknowledge gender, the sample isn't varied enough to prove anything really meaningful outside of it's own very specific time and place. If you asked everyone in the world to make lists of "masculine" and "feminine" qualities, every imaginable quality would show up on both lists somewhere. It's just not real and the whole species just needs to move on from it.))
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