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Do People Who Like SAO Even Play MMOs?
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Posted 1/5/16

Ranwolf wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


[




You misunderstood. I'm well aware of min maxing, but my gripe with Dual Wielding is that IT IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO ONE person. An over powered item? Sure. But not something an entire build. Maybe in a character based MMO like Vindictus, but to one player? That just screams Special Snowflake. Not to mention the other egregious examples which include using a knife in a gun MMOFPS (Unless you're doing a speed set in an FPS, this is rarely feasible against most high level players.), and wielding Excalibur.

I was speaking from the viewpoint of an average player. It's true. Most people can't solo, either because they lack the skills and the stats.


True only Kirito had the dual wielding skill but plenty..well four or five others were mentioned to have special skills of their own. And it can be inferred from Kirito's and Asuna's dialog on the manner that most people try to hide their special skills. Kirito himself tried his damnedest to keep his dual wielding a secret since he knew it would make people jealous. Kirito also made several mentions Asuna was actually a better dps build then he was and had a better accuracy rating. Well it's never outright stated it seems to me if the love interest is an actually better then so called overpower character she might have her own special skill.

As an MMO gamer I find the concept fascinating. Unique skills sets no other player can access. They would of course have to be balanced against each other and server population would have to be kept low. After all how many unique skills can one game have without breaking the engine running it?

And most people can't solo an MMO because they won't listen to those that can. We try to show how to build a character properly all the time and every time our advice falls on deaf ears for the most part. It's the first rule of anything, you have to learn from the best to be the best. Refuse and don't be surprised when a idiotic AI driven boss hands you and ill built raid members their ass.



To quote both of you the only MMO I know of that had anything similar to the above discussion (about special skills) was pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. In that game you had to complete a set of then random criteria to just unlock the potential jedi class and after you did once you died 3 times your character was unusable. There are rumored to only be a small handful on each server and they were mercilessly hunted down and PK'd by other very jealous players.

So the idea of 5-10 people on a server of 5k having a special skill/class others do not can be valid (though I do believe SWG came along much later than the original stories).

Posted 1/5/16 , edited 1/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This is a legitimate question.


PV I apologise if this sound rude or anything like that in advance.

After reading your replies and going back and forth with people.

You are A hating on the show. B salty. C you mad about something. Maybe I am wrong.

Kids don't play MMO? Dude have you ever play an MMO? That place is filled with them. From my personal experience.

What does Krito and Asuna being able to have sex in the game have to do with anything relating to the original question?


Edit. To answer your question. Final fantasy reborn. Star wars old republic. Eve online.
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Posted 1/5/16
I have played MMOs for a long time. I enjoyed SAO. I also enjoyed Log Horizon. A lot of people say Log Horizon is better. They about tie, to me.
Posted 1/5/16
I liked SAO. It was using the PVE/PVP concept from the korean MMORPG Lineage 2, where PVE and PVP went hand-in-hand. It had a pretty hardcore grind, and a lot of clan/alliance politics due to it being few farm spots (farmed mobs for materials, not quests) where clans clashed a lot, there was also castle sieges twice a month, and clans owned parts of the map which they taxed.

I kind of liked Log Horizon, but not to the same extent, because it was way too carebear with the whole "you can't die" and "oh my god I can no longer remember the name of my cat". The PVP concept in Log Horizon was also horrendous, like, you can tell the author has no idea what he's doing / has played way too much EQ2 or WoW.
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Posted 1/5/16 , edited 1/5/16
PV - I can't believe that calling Kirito a "Special Snowflake" is even a legitimate reason to hate on SAO. I mean, there are so many anime and other stories out there about someone special... because people enjoy stories about them. If the story was about a bunch of normal people, very few people would actually like it. *shrug*
Posted 1/5/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:

I have played MMOs for a long time. I enjoyed SAO. I also enjoyed Log Horizon. A lot of people say Log Horizon is better. They about tie, to me.


I personally preferred Log Horizon. Remind me of playing on teams with people to take enemy bosses.
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Posted 1/5/16
I don't play MMO's.



But I liked SAO. Bite me.

P.S. I think there's a very obvious misunderstanding of what the term "special snowflake" means.
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Posted 1/5/16
I don't have sex with multiple women, and I like School Days.
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Posted 1/5/16

anikevin wrote:

I don't have sex with multiple women, and I like School Days.


#GG

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Posted 1/5/16 , edited 1/5/16
Playing Order and Chaos II on my mobile device right now..

Before, I used to play RS2 and Rift. But if you ask me, I like Log Horizon quite a bit including the LN as well...
SAO though, not so much.
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Posted 1/5/16
from what i understand, people dislike SAO because of the several plot holes and deux ex machina supposedly present in the series.
people were expecting an actual series about mmo, but were instead presented with a romance with mmo only as a backdrop.
the 1st episode: "Kirito gets stuck in a game and have to battle through different floors with the help of other players to escape"
rest of the episodes: "romance, fan service, fan service, Asuna downgraded from an A-grade player to a housewife/damsel in distress, fan service)
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Posted 1/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Depends. I dislike the huge amount of pandering to special snowflake that appears to be done. The show is way too kirito-centric for my taste. This isn't even the rule of cool anymore, it just approaches a gamer's fantasy than an actual MMO. Even Kayaba stated there were glitches, Kirito mentions lag, the simplifying of cooking food, fishing, etc. I feel as if it lost it way.


I mean for one, there's small children playing in an MMO. There's implied to be sexual intercourse. Kirito marries the most beautiful girl in Aincrad and then has a "child" with" her. This just breaks immersion or whatnot.


I kind of share the same opinion. As with many of these MMO anime, there is a lot of lost potential, but SAO takes the cake. If you look at the creator's idea to make a "as close to reality" fantasy world, some things are excusable, but if they didn't regularly say it was an MMO, you could easily do without it being one. Log Horizon handled this well, at least in the beginning, but sadly, that anime fell flat real fast. The SAO LN helps a little more with descriptions that give it a better MMO feel, explaining how the system works, character and item interactions, etc. Had they put a little more focus on that in the anime, I feel it would have been better.

As far as the sex goes, I'll at least give the writer credit for making it as plausible as possible in the world he built. The circumstances and results surrounding it, not so much. Yui, their "child" is an AI created to monitor the mental health and emotions of players. She became interested in Kirito and Asuna because of their intense mental/emotional state while having sex, so essentially, the act of making babies brought their baby to them. Ingenious, in a sense, but if Yui was monitoring every player and sex was known to quite a few of them, why did she not approach any of the other couples? What makes Kirito and Asuna special besides the fact that they are the main characters. Kinda stabs plausibility in the back.

I'll be the first to say that the anime makes Kirito a Mary Sue. It portrays him as some chill/lazy guy who is naturally very powerful. The LN humanizes him a little more. He doesn't just become this super-powered player because he knew about SAO from the beta. It gives more detail of his training style, grinding, and why he always soloed everything. For one, exp is shared with the group. In solo, Kirito gets it all, thus faster leveling. Kirito would always grind until the point where he nearly died (the reason his HP regen was better than anyone else). I believe there were points where he was discovered near death in some grinding zones. Losing his guild only further forced his "push myself to the breaking point, and if I die, I die" mentality. If anything, I wish the LN would have pushed more the fact that his relationship with Asuna pulled him out of that rut. It would have made a good parallel with him in the beginning comforting and giving Asuna (originally a newbie to MMOs) courage to do something more than hide in safe-zones or low-level areas. I like the "return the favor" plot tropes.

What I really wish would be that the Aincrad arc was a fully fleshed out novel (and that the fairy arch did not exist).
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Posted 1/5/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


I mentioned that as well, which I believe included Klein? *Or maybe that later in the 2nd season. However, none of the others were "major players" and I found it sorely disappointing such a concept was being done merely to appeal to the masses instead of having a variety of characters with different styles of play who can kick ass. This is more or less of case a crew of badasses vs one marty sue.

Depends. Most of the MMOs I played can't be soloed by design, either by nullifying how much dmg you do with time limits or things that require players to be in more than one location.


For example, in my beloved Mabinogi, few people can solo a raid boss with 5mil hp, but fewer people can solo a basic level mission because it requires several players to be in several different locations. Then there are games like Left4Dead which aren't really meant to be soloed as every special insta kills or the massive amounts of mobs. But some of the more generic MMOs skirt this by poor game design.


I suppose as a plot device it might have flaws but at least it's a justification. It's a skill set he had to work at presumably to get better at. In the Alfheim arc he is just handed a the keys to the game's engine and abuses the hell out of that deus ex machina. But really there is only a few good ways to do the solo hero genre. And the overpowered path is probably the most popular one, people like a victorious hero. People also like the self sacrificing hero. People rarely like the defeated hero unless they are paving the path for another character ala Zack and Cloud from FF7.

And yeah an MMO can try to limit dps but dpm or even dph isn't something they can all control at once. Coding is only so flexible. If you have the patience even the highest health boss can be soloed. It's all in the proper build and item use most cases.

I would also hardly call a game that doesn't insist we hold hands and sing the theme to my little pony badly designed. I'd rather not have to wait five hours for my guild mates so our level 55 characters can do a level 4 mission that's in our way of going on with the new quest line.
Posted 1/5/16

stark700 wrote:

Playing Order and Chaos II on my mobile device right now..

Before, I used to play RS2 and Rift. But if you ask me, I like Log Horizon quite a bit including the LN as well...
SAO though, not so much.


I hear that Log Horizon LN is a bit darker than the anime. Is there any true to that?
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Posted 1/5/16 , edited 1/5/16

lambofgenesis wrote:

I'm honestly unsure, but I think I /did/ start playing Entropia before watching SAO,

but that said,... that's really not fair?

"Do people who watch naruto actually practice ninjitsu?!"

"Do people who watch Noragami actually believe in gods?"

"Do people who watch Free! actually know how to swim and/or are in swimming teams?"

"Do people who like Haikyuu actually play volleyball?"

Yeah the list goes on. Why should SAO be any different?


Those are completely fair questions. If people who are familiar with a topic in real life can enjoy a show about said topic, it means that the show probably handles the topic well and the creators did their research. Asking if people who like the show are familiar with the topic is a way to gauge how well the topic was represented.

Take the Haikyuu example. If the show doesn't properly represent volleyball, then people who actually play volleyball will probably be annoyed by it.

Creators not doing their research is a pretty good way to turn people who know about the topic away from the story. Well, until it reaches B-movie 'so bad it's good' levels.
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