First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
Post Reply Gender and race swaps in well established stories....
Posted 1/6/16

Rujikin wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:

Martin Luther King Jr is now played by a Chinese woman with 3 arms fighting Irish KKK members, who are black.

Don't tell me I'm crazy!


Next thing you know the Obama story is going to come out. Obama will be played by a Mexican-Asian to be more politically correct to the upcoming immigration waves -_-;


I want to see Gay Batman fighting Lesbian Cat Woman.
11622 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
40 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 1/6/16
I care for this about as much as I care for Hollywood remaking movies into trash. Needless to say, I hate it. Why can't they come up with their own material instead of ruining original work?
10263 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/6/16

dotsforlife wrote:

I care for this about as much as I care for Hollywood remaking movies into trash. Needless to say, I hate it. Why can't they come up with their own material instead of ruining original work?


To be fair, they don't ALWAYS ruin original work.... not always.
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

dotsforlife wrote:

I care for this about as much as I care for Hollywood remaking movies into trash. Needless to say, I hate it. Why can't they come up with their own material instead of ruining original work?


Just like most modern main stream video games, they have lost their soul. They don't but their blood in it. It's not really something objective, I just feel it in my veins.

11622 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
40 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

WeeabooWarrior

Just like most modern main stream video games, they have lost their soul. They don't but their blood in it. It's not really something objective, I just feel it in my veins.



Sad but true...


HolyDrumstick wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

I care for this about as much as I care for Hollywood remaking movies into trash. Needless to say, I hate it. Why can't they come up with their own material instead of ruining original work?


To be fair, they don't ALWAYS ruin original work.... not always.


When I say ruin I don't necessarily mean worse. More so they just changed how everyone remembers/views the work. I do agree though. I still
think they should stop being lazy regardless.
10263 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/6/16

dotsforlife wrote:I still think they should stop being lazy regardless.


I agree.
14783 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:A few examples I can give are the idea of making James Bond a black man, several swaps in race throughout comics, and the gender change with Thor... there's also the element of comics portraying more and more homosexuals, or rewriting characters to be homosexual, but I'm less concerned with that, because sexual preference is usually in no way something we use to identify certain characters.


Not to mention Bond has a Scot background, which is what makes him such a rebellious rule-breaker with Her Majesty's higher-ups. Change that, and you destroy any reason Sean Connery was ever cast in the first place.
Now, American CIA Felix Leiter they could make black in "Never Say Never Again", since that would still make sense, and the new black Ms. Moneypenny from Skyfall and Spectre does seem to exorcise all those Halle Berry/Jynx demons from Die Another Day. (Bond can have a sexy empowered black sidekick who doesn't try to usurp the franchise into her own spinoff!)

As for Thor-ette, that was just Marvel trying to kiss up to the sexy girl convention cosplayers by giving them an actual character to play.
We got X-23 (girl Wolverine now in the curvy yellow-and-black, formerly Wild Thing) in the comics, and Pepper Potts got her own iron suit to become Rescue, but I don't think we're going to get any print validation of the high-cut female Captain America costume that's been more popular lately.
(At least not as long as the movie-Marvel has anything to say about



Creed - If you haven't seen this, you REALLY need to. So, the main character is the illegitimate son of Apollo Creed, who has Rocky train him to be a fighter. (I don't believe any of that is a spoiler) However, this kid really makes the Rocky lineage proud, and I'd love to see them make more about his fights, like they did with Rocky. The key to making it a great movie with a black main character is that they created this character from scratch. He owns everything about him. If they'd have tried a Rocky remake with Rocky as a black dude, it just wouldn't have felt genuine. Seriously, it's a great movie, and you should really check it out.


Even knowing that it was Stallone trying to find one more sequel after Rocky Balboa (the fight was supposed to have killed Rocky in V, but Stallone wanted the character to live into retirement), I originally cringed at the trailer thinking it was going to "blackwash" the franchise and paste the Creed and Balboa names onto a generic hip-hop street-fighter script--with Stallone as the Old White Dude--but nope, they delivered.
10263 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

Ejanss wrote:
Even knowing that it was Stallone trying to find one more sequel after Rocky Balboa (the fight was supposed to have killed Rocky in V, but Stallone wanted the character to live into retirement), I originally cringed at the trailer thinking it was going to "blackwash" the franchise and paste the Creed and Balboa names onto a generic hip-hop street-fighter script--with Stallone as the Old White Dude--but nope, they delivered. :)


Yeah, I was happier about the movie than I expected, too. And Stallone/Rocky wasn't just the Old White Dude. He had an almost equal role in the movie, and in a very real way, it was still lot about his fight.
15261 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16
I'd say it’s a case by case issue.

For example I'd say it would be significantly more controversial to make James Bond gay than to make him black or Asian. 007 has a reputation for being a womaniser, attempting to chase anything in a skirt. As a result, 007's sexuality and sexual identity is an important part of the character and the plot so casually changing it could be viewed as somewhat insulting.

Changing the gender of a character varies considerably. For example I had no problem with this:


However, when it’s being done for the sake of "diversity" or blatant pandering then I take issue with it.

Race is a rather amusing one because this mainly comes from westerns (in the national sense) who demand that certain roles be filled with Blacks, Asians or Whites while failing to recognise the significant differences between the different groups. For example the Hollywood live adaptation for Ghost in the Shell has taken some flak for casting Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusanagi prompting some people to demand an Asian actor fill the role. Let’s say that the studio decided to cast Michelle Krusiec (I have no idea who she is, I picked her out at random) to replace Scarlett Johansson for the role to appease the people who are outraged. The funny thing with this (theoretical) choice of casting is that Michelle Krusiec is not Japanese, she is from Taiwan. So the role would still be played by a non-Japanese actress and the previously offended would be satisfied because she "looks" Japanese. However, if this theoretical decision was acted upon, you could still generate controversy because the studio cast the "wrong Asian" for the role IE non-Japanese. For example Memoirs of a Geisha was criticised because Sayuri, Hatsumomo were given to Chinese actors and Mameha was filled by a Malaysian.

My preference however, would be to make a new franchise; not only do you get to make the characters how you want but, you help to end the torrent of endless sequels and reboots that we are seeing. There are many talented actors and writers, use them.

However, there are practical limitations to be taken into account as well. For example in Attack on titan the characters supposed in central/eastern Europe and it was explicitly stated that the Asian population had been wiped out (baring Mikasa who is bi-racial) however, in the live action, all the actors as Asian. The film was made and produced in Japan which is an ethnically humongous country so having an all European cast (who can act professionally and speak fluent Japanese) would be too impractical. This would also apply to some degree for low budget films and TV shows.

10228 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / United Kingdom
Offline
Posted 1/6/16
I am all for race and gender equality, and I would love to see more strong female characters on tv. But changing an already established character I think is stupid.

It has nothing to do with racism or sexism. James Bond is British white. (pretty sure a black guy would really stand out in Soviet Russia). The Doctor is a man. Thor is a man. Sherlock Holmes is British and his sidekick Watson is a man. These things shouldn't be changed. Rather than changing old characters through gender and race swapping, they should create new characters.
15261 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 1/6/16

dotsforlife wrote:

I care for this about as much as I care for Hollywood remaking movies into trash. Needless to say, I hate it. Why can't they come up with their own material instead of ruining original work?


It's not that there are no orginal ideas left in Hollywood, but rather studios and financial backers being unwilling to take a risk on a new franchise that could fail and result in millions being lost (see Disney's John Carter). Another problem is that film budgets for blockbusters have become so big that they need to appeal to as many people as possible, which acts as a disincentive to be original or experimental.
3052 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / London
Offline
Posted 1/6/16
James Bond is also only the name the MI6 give the agent. Thats why the bonds change that isn't their real name.
16821 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Hoosierville
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16
I don't mind it as some sort of story arc or something creative... But race swaps are so useless unless you are going to implement race specific stereotypes; like norsemen resisting the cold, blacks surviving direct sunlight longer than anyone, indians having heat resistance, and native americans being in tune with nature. Most of the time such things are just PC nonsense

Edit: Italians being useless at everything.
14783 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/6/16 , edited 1/6/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

I am all for race and gender equality, and I would love to see more strong female characters on tv. But changing an already established character I think is stupid.

It has nothing to do with racism or sexism. James Bond is British white. (pretty sure a black guy would really stand out in Soviet Russia). The Doctor is a man. Thor is a man. Sherlock Holmes is British and his sidekick Watson is a man. These things shouldn't be changed. Rather than changing old characters through gender and race swapping, they should create new characters.


And ftm, the Doctor IS Sherlock Holmes*.
To change one is to demonstrate an absolute facepalm-worthy cluelessness in one's interpretation of the other, just for the momentary geek-thrill of showing off.

----
* - No, think about it: The loyal, but often confused assistant (in the Classic version, anyway) trying to learn his partner's methods and explain him to the outside world. The Moriarty-like eternal nemesis. The old-fashioned hamfisted leader of the police/Army who still welcomes his unique assistance on a baffling case. The constant need for mental stimulation, an encyclopedic knowledge of everything, the casual imperturbability towards mortal danger, and the oddball habit of getting excited over seemingly minute clues that end up solving everything...)
1009 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 1/6/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:
The same goes with comics. The gender change with Thor - seriously... just, what? However, in the defense of Marvel, Norse gods did actually gender swap in legends.

And we keep changing the races of people (Wally West to name one). Just... stop. Create new heroes/villains, resurrect old minority heroes, develop their storylines and make them their own thing.

Creed - If you haven't seen this, you REALLY need to. So, the main character is the illegitimate son of Apollo Creed, who has Rocky train him to be a fighter. (I don't believe any of that is a spoiler) However, this kid really makes the Rocky lineage proud, and I'd love to see them make more about his fights, like they did with Rocky. The key to making it a great movie with a black main character is that they created this character from scratch. He owns everything about him. If they'd have tried a Rocky remake with Rocky as a black dude, it just wouldn't have felt genuine. Seriously, it's a great movie, and you should really check it out.


ok, two things:

Thor wasn't gender-swapped, let's make that clear. Thor wasn't turned female. It's a female character using his name(with his permission), and with a similar power-set.

Creed isn't a race-swap as Adonis Creed is not Rocky Balboa with added melanin. Creed is basically a side-story and a well made one at that.

If anything is a race-swap, it would be Wally West. I don't have a problem with using a new or previously established character to take over the role of a hero as long as the story is good, I'll give it a chance. But actually changing the race/gender of a character I disagree with. Characters from an alternate reality(such as 1610-Nick Fury) I can deal with because of their nature of being from a different reality.

First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.