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Post Reply Schwarzesmarken Discussion
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Posted 1/10/16

KingKaio wrote:


curr0001 wrote:

well that was freaking dark. I don't expect it to it let up at all.


It won't.


Yah?
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Posted 1/10/16

runec wrote:
omeone with PTSD, I'm fearing another Aldnoah Zero treatment where no one in, on or producing the show knows anything whatsoever about PTSD.

I find this ironic as you probably haven't even read the visual novel trilogy. I'm pretty obsessed with characters with PTSD actually and it's quite the rarity. Alternative however portrays it perfectly and i'm not saying this as a fan but i had a severe case of depression for years that often made me see and hear things that messed with my head being immersed with this kind of character also helped me to overcome my depression. I also know someone whom i'm very close to that experiences ptsd.

Schwarzesmarken actually left a few things out that was in the visual novel to cut down on some extra time but i forgive this considering the results. Also Aldnoah/zero never really seemed to have a promising staff of writers, more times than not Age and Kouki seem to deliver and the first episode of Schwarz was quite faithful so i doubt you have to worry about this at the very least.
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Posted 1/10/16

KingKaio wrote:

I was hoping they would do a better job representing the GDR than they did here; the first episodes of Total Eclipse took place in peaceful surrounds in a city, at school- and I would have hoped they could do the same here of perhaps East Berlin (Alexanderplaz, People's Palace and space tower, atomic clock) and have the events of fight with the Beta happen somewhere removed- instead it's just a desolate snowscape (how much space do they think there is in tiny East Germany?) and I have to say they really over did it with the sadistic savagery of the Stasi guards. Yes there was spying and the government was run by the party, but they weren't committing mass executions like that. The situation was far too delicate for that. Yeah I know it's an anime, but forsomething that's meant to entertain me, I would have rather seen some innocent otalgie than cold blooded mass murder.


I had this really well thought out reply but I deleted it on accident so fuck it. Basically what makes it believable is the fact that what they're fighting on is called the oder nisse defensive line which was an actual border between Poland and east germany. The oder nisse line stretches all the way from Czechoslovakia to the Baltic coast which is a long distance relatively. Wars in real life my friend are not fought by 6 people in a squad as some movies would have you believe. Its fought by hundreds of thousands of people at a grander scale. Schwarzemarken is about a squadron of elite tsf pilots who are tasked on taking on high priority targets meaning they can be sent anywhere they are only a small speck of a big picture. About the landscape being boring and desolate eastern Europe is mostly just farm lands and small villages literally look at the region. About the stasi they were some of the most brutally sadistic people around they had files on almost every single GDR citizen and would use that information against them in the most fucked ways and if they figured you were a a traitor to the state the state will kill you using stasti information. I mean the communists weren't nice people they killed a ton of their own citizens for the golden hammer and sickle.
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Posted 1/10/16 , edited 1/10/16
Initial Impressions

Ok, here's the thing.

I have no experience with the Muv-Luv source material. I have, however, seen the entire first half of Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse. That's my background with this franchise.

Now, personally, I thought this first episode blew it out of the water. It was really interesting and gripping. Based solely off of what I saw here, I would think this would be a Winter favorite of mine.

HOWEVER, as I said, I saw Total Eclipse, and I was similarly impressed by the beginning of that show as well, but was massively let down as it went on. The main guy was just annoying as all heck, the cool captain devolved into a generic tsundere, and at some point it just turned into a harem-y shadow of it's opening.

Because of that, even though I really liked this episode, I'm still very wary of this show. The beginnings of all those elements are still there. We have a semi-annoying main guy, we have a cool captain, and we have a predominately female cast (though, I was happy to see that other older gentleman as well).

So i'm interested to see where this goes. Will it follow Total Eclipse into the abyss and do all the same things I hated in in that show? Or, will it branch off and turn into something I can truly love.

Only time will tell...

My initial test is going to be the captain. I think her name was Captain Bernhard, right? If she dies and Eberbach becomes the captain, or WORSE, if she starts devolving into a tsundere who falls for Eberbach, then I know to just drop this right then and there.

So let's see what happens.
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Posted 1/10/16
I liked it. Man, the BETAs are ugly. Like, Lovecraftian ugly.

The totalitarian backdrop of the GDR provides some interesting drama that could provide the meat of the story rather than the more simplistic humans vs nonhuman struggle.


imaginarycreatures wrote:
To those that are younger than me out there: is this something that they cover in schools now? Just curious.

I took six years of German (middle+high school) and we covered quite a bit of German history and culture. Watched Goodbye Lenin! I think twice.

Outside of German class though, I would guess East Germany is probably tangentially covered as part of a US history class in the best case scenario.
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Posted 1/11/16

Cait_Sidhe wrote:

Initial Impressions

Ok, here's the thing.

I have no experience with the Muv-Luv source material. I have, however, seen the entire first half of Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse. That's my background with this franchise.

Now, personally, I thought this first episode blew it out of the water. It was really interesting and gripping. Based solely off of what I saw here, I would think this would be a Winter favorite of mine.

HOWEVER, as I said, I saw Total Eclipse, and I was similarly impressed by the beginning of that show as well, but was massively let down as it went on. The main guy was just annoying as all heck, the cool captain devolved into a generic tsundere, and at some point it just turned into a harem-y shadow of it's opening.

Because of that, even though I really liked this episode, I'm still very wary of this show. The beginnings of all those elements are still there. We have a semi-annoying main guy, we have a cool captain, and we have a predominately female cast (though, I was happy to see that other older gentleman as well).

So i'm interested to see where this goes. Will it follow Total Eclipse into the abyss and do all the same things I hated in in that show? Or, will it branch off and turn into something I can truly love.

Only time will tell...

My initial test is going to be the captain. I think her name was Captain Bernhard, right? If she dies and Eberbach becomes the captain, or WORSE, if she starts devolving into a tsundere who falls for Eberbach, then I know to just drop this right then and there.

So let's see what happens.


First off, I'd highly recommend finishing the rest of Total Eclipse. After the Russia arc, there's an inter-country tournament back at the Yukon, there's an actual human conflict that happens, and then there's the XFJ Project group vs the Scarlet Twins when the Russians try to activate the super-weapon within the Scarlet Twins and their TSF. Sure, it doesn't get back to the same tone as the first two (moreso the second, really) episodes, but it still has some pretty cool moments. It does end on a stupid cliffhanger, however, as I just recently found out after a couple years of hoping for a sequel that the Total Eclipse anime was really just a huge marketing advertisement for the visual novel.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you, except I've seen all of Total Eclipse, and have read up on the original trilogy some (I think I read some of the manga scanlations some long time ago), but that's it (however, I am REALLY looking forward to the English release of the original trilogy, and am super happy it's coming to Vita too). So, I'm on the skeptic boat with you for the time being, and while I wouldn't mind some harem stuff being in this one (yeah, I'm one of those guys ), I feel like since this sounds like it's going to be all on the front-lines, it'll hold up with the action and dark moments much better. Here's hoping!

Also, in regards to Bernhard, I actually want to see her fall for Eberbach, but turn it more into a yandere type thing, where she falls for Eberbach but that causes major conflicts with her informant duties, and she basically goes lethal on him to see her views or die. Who knows, I just wouldn't mind seeing some harem aspects that give the characters more internal conflict, as with all the politics it seems this one will have going on, relationships could actually make things even grimmer and deadlier for everyone.
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Posted 1/11/16
That was dark / violent / political enemies and unforgiving !

I wiil watch!
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Posted 1/11/16 , edited 1/11/16

Cait_Sidhe wrote:

Because of that, even though I really liked this episode, I'm still very wary of this show. The beginnings of all those elements are still there. We have a semi-annoying main guy, we have a cool captain, and we have a predominately female cast (though, I was happy to see that other older gentleman as well).

So i'm interested to see where this goes. Will it follow Total Eclipse into the abyss and do all the same things I hated in in that show? Or, will it branch off and turn into something I can truly love.

Only time will tell...

My initial test is going to be the captain. I think her name was Captain Bernhard, right? If she dies and Eberbach becomes the captain, or WORSE, if she starts devolving into a tsundere who falls for Eberbach, then I know to just drop this right then and there.

So let's see what happens.


The MC has deeply personal reasons for being the way he is, you got a glimpse of them during the episode, but it'll end up going into more detail about it later and end up having a major role in his character development later on.

As for Muv-Luv generally having a female dominated cast, it was explained somewhere but I forget where, during the inital stages of war with the BETA, the militaries of the world pretty much only sent out men, and they all got slaughtered to the point where they had to start training women, since well, yeah, male numbers were severely shortening. If I recall correctly in the original Muv-Luv Unlimited and Alternative that takes place in 2000, more than 50% of the human race is gone due to the BETA. Once I can refind the information I'll probably edit this post and link it here.

EDIT : Taken from the Muv-Luv Wiki about Population of the Earth

As for Irisdina, the Captain, I'll let you see that road for yourself.
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Posted 1/11/16 , edited 1/11/16

Austershalin wrote:
3. I very much agree with Theodor that having an emotionally unstable pilot in your squadron is ridiculous. Let her rehabilitate properly before putting her in the front line.


Mysharonaa wrote:
-Bringing bringing a mentally incapable person to the battle field in an expensive machine is stupid. Intentional drama incoming...


runec wrote:Also, as someone with PTSD, I'm fearing another Aldnoah Zero treatment where no one in, on or producing the show knows anything whatsoever about PTSD.

Anett suffers from ptsd as as a result of having her three best friends killed within 3 days of their first deployment, as a part of the 666th. She despises theodor because she believes that he abandoned her and her friends and left them to die during the battle soldiers weren't just taking off the battlefield because of ptsd it was seen as a weakness and nothing more.

runec wrote:
But, eh, yeah. Pointlessly dark and the plot feels really forced so far. Welcome to Muv Luv, I guess.


hpulley wrote:
Stupid unnecessary 'shocking' 1st episode death was stupid but that's Muv Luv so I will look past it.

I am old enough to remember the cold war and east and west Germany but the cold war vibe is still kind of strange as settings go..

She wasn't getting out alive not only do you have to factor in the damage of the cockpit crushing into her but there's other factors including internal damage caused from the impact as well as the fall. I have been seeing a lot of complaints regarding 'pointless drama/pointless murder/pointless deaths' but the fact of the matter is reality is stranger than fiction folks. Putting a fellow soldier out of their misery in that condition during a war with aliens would not be unheard of, if it's an unknown factor that saving that soldier could prove a hindrance to the mission you better believe they're gonna pull the trigger. (Refer to Raptors post if you wish to know more.)

I also suggest you refer to the wiki if you have anymore questions or you could read the visual novels or the first four chapters of Schwarzesmarken. This side story adaptation is trying to condense a lot most likely trying to adapt all of it into two cours or more while going all out for the final half so far it's been quite faithful regardless but bound to leave questions for newcomers.
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Posted 1/11/16 , edited 1/11/16

jcal94 wrote:

First off, I'd highly recommend finishing the rest of Total Eclipse. After the Russia arc, there's an inter-country tournament back at the Yukon, there's an actual human conflict that happens, and then there's the XFJ Project group vs the Scarlet Twins when the Russians try to activate the super-weapon within the Scarlet Twins and their TSF. Sure, it doesn't get back to the same tone as the first two (moreso the second, really) episodes, but it still has some pretty cool moments. It does end on a stupid cliffhanger, however, as I just recently found out after a couple years of hoping for a sequel that the Total Eclipse anime was really just a huge marketing advertisement for the visual novel.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you, except I've seen all of Total Eclipse, and have read up on the original trilogy some (I think I read some of the manga scanlations some long time ago), but that's it (however, I am REALLY looking forward to the English release of the original trilogy, and am super happy it's coming to Vita too). So, I'm on the skeptic boat with you for the time being, and while I wouldn't mind some harem stuff being in this one (yeah, I'm one of those guys ), I feel like since this sounds like it's going to be all on the front-lines, it'll hold up with the action and dark moments much better. Here's hoping!

Also, in regards to Bernhard, I actually want to see her fall for Eberbach, but turn it more into a yandere type thing, where she falls for Eberbach but that causes major conflicts with her informant duties, and she basically goes lethal on him to see her views or die. Who knows, I just wouldn't mind seeing some harem aspects that give the characters more internal conflict, as with all the politics it seems this one will have going on, relationships could actually make things even grimmer and deadlier for everyone.


Hmm, depending on how I feel about this show, maybe I will pick Total Eclipse back up. Particularly if this show can get me interested in the world again. Of the things that did irk me with Total Eclipse, the world definitely wasn't one of them. Quite an interesting setting and implementation.

Yea, I forgot to add my usual caveat that everything I was hoping for was just because of my personal tastes. If this did go the harem route, it will undoubtedly still be a great show (if they keep up what they did with this first episode, at least). But that trope has just worn itself on me personally lol.

BUT - your yandere concept is really interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing that, actually. From what little i've seen of her, I think it would mesh well with Cpt. Bernhard's personality. What ticked me off with the Captain in Total Eclipse was how she started out as a total badass and then was shoehorned into the tsundere role. Having Cpt. Bernhard go yandere would actually be really fitting. Well, from what i've seen from this episode, anyway.



RaverWolfe wrote:

The MC has deeply personal reasons for being the way he is, you got a glimpse of them during the episode, but it'll end up going into more detail about it later and end up having a major role in his character development later on.

As for Muv-Luv generally having a female dominated cast, it was explained somewhere but I forget where, during the inital stages of war with the BETA, the militaries of the world pretty much only sent out men, and they all got slaughtered to the point where they had to start training women, since well, yeah, male numbers were severely shortening. If I recall correctly in the original Muv-Luv Unlimited and Alternative that takes place in 2000, more than 50% of the human race is gone due to the BETA. Once I can refind the information I'll probably edit this post and link it here.

EDIT : Taken from the Muv-Luv Wiki about Population of the Earth

As for Irisdina, the Captain, I'll let you see that road for yourself.


Fascinating. I feel like i've heard that premise before. After you said that, I think I remember them saying it somewhere in Total Eclipse, but I also think I heard a similar premise in another show. Can't remember where though.... which is annoying. Pretty clever premise for a visual novel, though. Actually somewhat realistic as well, which is a nice touch.

As for Eberbach, yea I got a little bit of his motivations from this episode, and I really appreciated it. It's why I just called him "semi-annoying" I mean, I actually don't mind him that much, but I just have an aversion to arrogant jerkwad characters. I think i'd feel better if he turned out to be more of a tsundere, but that's just me of course.

Thank you for not only including interesting and relevant information, but for avoiding spoilers as well. Particularly with regard to the captain, as i'm very interested in her as well. Actually, i'm quite interested in the whole 666th division. Unfortunately, I think I let my disdain for Total Eclipse cloud just how much I enjoyed this episode in my impression.



*Random note not in reply to anyway*

Man, 666th is a mouth full to try and say. I mean, just saying "six six six" is easy, but that "sixty-sixth" is quite a tongue twister for me. I just can't say it naturally. Funny that i've never had to say that as it's usually just "six six six"

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Posted 1/11/16 , edited 1/11/16

RaptorSushi wrote:





Sorry but the facts a little wrong about the Stasi. Having files on people is not the same thing as rounding up dozens or more in a dungeon and massacre... such things happen in countries, but this kind of massacre was not a feature of the GDR. The GDR is famous for something called the Berlin Wall which surrounded the entire Allied occupation zone of West Berlin, and a fully militarized border with barbed wire and concrete barriers between East and West Germany. Those are the facts, but this anime makes it look like 1930s Siberia during the purges and that's incorrect.
I'm not all that concerned about it, it's simply a disappointment, given the way it could have begun with a tranquil situation in early-1980s GDR and shown it being wrecked by invading Beta and there is plenty of potential about a conflict between east and west ideals. I urge you to watch Total Eclipse for a comparison, since this show is related to.
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Posted 1/11/16 , edited 1/11/16

Cait_Sidhe wrote:

Fascinating. I feel like i've heard that premise before. After you said that, I think I remember them saying it somewhere in Total Eclipse, but I also think I heard a similar premise in another show. Can't remember where though.... which is annoying. Pretty clever premise for a visual novel, though. Actually somewhat realistic as well, which is a nice touch.

As for Eberbach, yea I got a little bit of his motivations from this episode, and I really appreciated it. It's why I just called him "semi-annoying" I mean, I actually don't mind him that much, but I just have an aversion to arrogant jerkwad characters. I think i'd feel better if he turned out to be more of a tsundere, but that's just me of course.

Thank you for not only including interesting and relevant information, but for avoiding spoilers as well. Particularly with regard to the captain, as i'm very interested in her as well. Actually, i'm quite interested in the whole 666th division. Unfortunately, I think I let my disdain for Total Eclipse cloud just how much I enjoyed this episode in my impression.



*Random note not in reply to anyway*

Man, 666th is a mouth full to try and say. I mean, just saying "six six six" is easy, but that "sixty-sixth" is quite a tongue twister for me. I just can't say it naturally. Funny that i've never had to say that as it's usually just "six six six"



Most of the people in the 666th have some messed up stuff in their past. Depending on how much the anime covers you will see a bit of it, but for characters like Slywia, the reason why she's the way she is isn't covered in the VN right now, but in one of the additional stories from the LN's, so I'm unsure about if they'll include the additional stories into the anime, though I doubt it.

Though on that note, I'd like to say Slywia went through rougher stuff than Anett, and is, in my opinion, more mentally unstable. But yeah. There's a lot of screwed up stuff in this side story, I'm hoping they don't censor any of it. Lol.

EDIT - As a final note for the night, I think anyone in here will agree, that you should not EVER get attatched to charcters in muv-luv. Expect the worst and hope for the best!

Even though I'm attatched to Beatrix....
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Posted 1/11/16
1983, Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Mechs? This ought to be interesting. I'll definitely look into this.....after more episodes get released, as there is only one thus far.

How frequently are new episodes uploaded here on CR?
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Posted 1/11/16

Gross1985 wrote:

1983, Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Mechs? This ought to be interesting. I'll definitely look into this.....after more episodes get released, as there is only one thus far.

How frequently are new episodes uploaded here on CR?


Every Sunday afternoon on EST.
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Posted 1/11/16

planetwarrior wrote:


Gross1985 wrote:

1983, Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Mechs? This ought to be interesting. I'll definitely look into this.....after more episodes get released, as there is only one thus far.

How frequently are new episodes uploaded here on CR?


Every Sunday afternoon on EST.

But....but, muh episodes. I want them all noooowwww.


No but seriously; thanks for the heads-up.
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