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Post Reply Schwarzesmarken Discussion
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Posted 1/13/16 , edited 1/13/16

Saemonza
The writers don't need to re-cover a whole bunch of stuff that they took plenty of time in the original series to explain, thus annoying current fans with gross regurgitation of already-known information, just to pander to lazy or impatient newcomers who can't even be bothered to read the original series.

That's ridiculous. If you're lost on this show, it's because you chose to watch a spin-off of a complicated story and have no one to blame but yourself.
Literally this. If you're gonna go into a side story at least have the mentality it's a side story and enjoy it for what it is. Rating or judging it just a few episodes in before even getting half way because you have 'questions' is completely asinine there's not even that much missing information regarding 'schwarzesmarken' to complain about in all reality. Also comparing a side story adaptation with steins;gate which is an adaptation of a main story is a bad example and expecting entirely too much.

I suspect the 15th however a little more will be filled in but not much.

And i'm assuming the reason raptor gave that recommendation was so you had less questions early on rather than later.

If you have questions however i'm sure anyone in the community will be willing to answer.
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Posted 1/13/16 , edited 1/13/16

Saemonza wrote:


domvina wrote:

I don't think it's unjustified to ask a series released to the general public to have the ability to convey the important portions of its plot and history to the general public. Depth of detail isn't required but adequate information so that the phrase "And I urge you to read the actual source material from the visual novels to get a better understanding of what's going" needs to be said.

If every series based on a visual novel, light novel, or manga decided to gate its premise behind the assumption all or even a majority of the viewers had knowledge of the source material many quite popular series would not have enjoyed the success they achieved. It's the fact they struck a balance between providing sufficient information for the unfamiliar viewer to still get a solid grasp on the story and characters but not holding up the pacing of the story so that those already familiar would be turned away that they achieved acclaim as well as aiding in driving the franchise as a whole to greater popularity.


The writers don't need to re-cover a whole bunch of stuff that they took plenty of time in the original series to explain, thus annoying current fans with gross regurgitation of already-known information, just to pander to lazy or impatient newcomers who can't even be bothered to read the original series.

That's ridiculous. If you're lost on this show, it's because you chose to watch a spin-off of a complicated story and have no one to blame but yourself.


I will reference Fate/Zero and Fate/UBW as counters. I have never played the Fate games and only had the most basic of information of the franchise. Yet watching Zero I did not at any time feel a sense vital information had been excluded. The story was executed in such a way that allowed those not very familiar with the franchise to enjoy it and for those with a deep understanding of the Fate universe to also enjoy it. Alternately in UBW a core piece of the back-story regarding Caster was excluded leaving questions regarding her motivations and taking away from the audience's sense of connection and sympathy for the character. This was noted both by new viewers such as myself as well as long time fans of the franchise who felt it was a critical error by the writers in an otherwise well execute series.

I would not say that I feel in any way "lost" with Schwarzesmarken but there is quite obviously an extremely important detail being left out regarding Katia as well as why she would be so easily accepted by the East Germans. Frankly it's non-nonsensical that an opposing force would so readily take in an enemy soldier and then give them what at this point appears to be free access to their base. Leaving out that sort of core detail unnecessarily detracts from the story.

There seems to be a sense I dislike Schwarzesmarken. This is not true. I've watched Total Eclipse and enjoyed it. I have been looking forward to Schwarzesmarken. I am simply disappointed the writers have chosen to leave a gaping hole in the story so early in the series with a "go read the source material" as a response. For all of Total Eclipse's flaws obviously leaving out major plot points was not one of them.
Posted 1/13/16
Is this show license on English by the way?
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Posted 1/13/16

domvina wrote:

I would not say that I feel in any way "lost" with Schwarzesmarken but there is quite obviously an extremely important detail being left out regarding Katia as well as why she would be so easily accepted by the East Germans.


You're flustered because the writers aren't telling you everything within the first twenty minutes of the series? Obviously those are things we'll learn later, as we know NOTHING about Katia. Stop being impatient.


Frankly it's non-nonsensical that an opposing force would so readily take in an enemy soldier and then give them what at this point appears to be free access to their base. Leaving out that sort of core detail unnecessarily detracts from the story.


Maybe you should wait more than ten minutes for an explanation, man. You're whining about literally nothing.
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Posted 1/13/16
I like this show a lot and I could give a fuck about the LN or manga its why I am watching the anime. I really don't want to know a source or whats going to happen before it does. Free your mind the rest will follow
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Posted 1/13/16

Saemonza wrote:
You're flustered because the writers aren't telling you everything within the first twenty minutes of the series? Obviously those are things we'll learn later, as we know NOTHING about Katia. Stop being impatient.

Maybe you should wait more than ten minutes for an explanation, man. You're whining about literally nothing.


I believe I've made an effort to maintain a rational, non-personal discussion on the matter but if you'd like to begin slinging person comments as responses that add nothing to the debate other than sideways insults then our discussion is at an end.

We'll simply have to disagree and leave it at that.
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Posted 1/13/16
For the fanservice and medicore story.
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Posted 1/13/16
This show is apparently 1 cour (12 episodes ) btw.
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Posted 1/13/16

imaginarycreatures wrote:


RaptorSushi wrote:




I'm well aware of this. However, you'll note that one of the things they weren't prone to doing was gangland-style executions, a la Mexican drug cartels (not to say they didn't do this, but it really wasn't their M.O.). While it is hypothetically possible that they could go this direction, I personally disagree with the author's interpretation of the Stasi responding in this manner.

I actually have read the visual novels, and I do understand the context for these events. That doesn't mean that I think it's a realistic interpretation of what would have happened were an alien invasion force to attack the planet during this time period in this geographic region. Shockingly, it's possible to read something and still disagree with the conclusions the author arrived at. Quite frankly, I don't think it's even important for it to be realistic; I was just observing that there would be a reasonable explanation for why the author could arrive at this conjecture.

Beyond that...I think you're making far more assumptions about a casual comment I made than were either necessary or appropriate, and were rather rude about it, as well. If I hadn't already read the visual novels, all your comments would have done is compel me to never read them.


Lol. Butt hurt much? the post about reading the visual novel was directed towards KaioKing, not you.
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Posted 1/13/16 , edited 1/13/16

KingKaio wrote:


RaptorSushi wrote:


imaginarycreatures wrote:


KingKaio wrote:


RaptorSushi wrote:












Your reasoning on what could happen in this scenario is fine, I agree that it's possible that things could get out of control in the context of an alien invasion and that would lead to increased brutality- however, if people in power lose their cool and go crazy committing massacres like this -the people, who see nothing to lose between getting eaten by bugs or shot by police would revolt; INCLUDING the military- who would never even go into battle with that kind of shit going on. There would be chaos.

This is what I mean by a 'delicate' situation within the GDR, they could not carry out a massacre policy in the East with an allied occupation zone sitting smack in the middle of their country under their nose, and with the risk of causing an avalanche of refugees into the west- which would destabilize the situation so much it could trigger a war between Soviet occupying forces and American/British ones... and it was afterall a massive outflow of refugees in 1989 that brought the regime to collapse (people on the news speculated about the possibility of war breaking out, I remember it well)
And perhaps the revolt/chaos scenario is one the writers are going for in this series, now that I think about what happened at the end of Total Eclipse. But I agree that it's just likely the writers are largely ignorant about the GDR... which makes me question why they would situate this story in that specific (and today nearly forgotten-it's-so-obscure) country.



http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/Operation_Palaiologos

The red is BETA occupied territory. Most of the NATO forces in Europe during that operation got wiped out. the West depended on the GDR long enough until they could recuperate manpower. they wouldn't risk all out war and the gdr is on their own while the former soviet union is pushed into Siberia. The biggest threat was the rebels trying to reunify Germany the stasi were taking care of them quite efficiently until the events in schwarzemarken happen. Unfortunately episode one didn't go through all this. The schwarzemarken visual novel goes into full detail at the first hour or so. I'm not arguing the adaption just the situation going on during the cold war in this alternate history.
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Posted 1/13/16 , edited 1/13/16

Ajcool33 wrote:

For the fanservice and medicore story.


Same here.

And I expect Hitler to appear. He's still alive I'm sure.
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Posted 1/13/16 , edited 1/14/16
Everything was okay, but then the damned loli showed up. tsk
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Posted 1/14/16
Having watched the opening episode, I will say that I was not impressed. There was no decent hook. The main characters were poorly introduced and uninspiring and the world felt pretty contrived.
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Posted 1/15/16
Uncensored episode airs today. Potentially they could add a few more things or go a little more graphic with the gore/violence available.
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Posted 1/16/16
I know that the second episode is supposed to come out in less than twelve hours, but I still want to voice some thoughts about episode 1.

First, East Germany dealing with the BETA brings to mind the Imperium of Mankind, from Warhammer 40K. Only with East Germany's Powers That Be having less justification (since they don't have to deal with Genestealers or the Powers of Chaos) for the things they pull.

I mean, Within moments of the episode starting we're told that you can't trust anyone - because anyone could rat on you to Stasi. The person who betrays you could be a coworker, or a friend. It could be one of your siblings, or your lover. It could be one of your parents, or your only child.

And then we're told that you have three choices: Die on the frontlines. Die in a purge. Or live like a machine.

Second, while the idea of having someone who really needs her meds adjusted still an active TSF pilot in a squadron that actively hunts Laser Class BETA is bit hard for me to swallow, it still pales when I try to wrap my head around the kid who's crazy enough that she wants to defect to East Germany. (Even with the revelation of that she has a reason for doing so, I think the kid's going to really come to regret that decision.)

Finally, given my (incomplete) knowledge of the Muv-Luv franchise, I'm going to treat this story the same way I would one set in Lovecraft's Mythos. Anyone can die. Everyone might die. Anyone could turn out to really be a threat. And there are fates worse than death.
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