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Post Reply 5 Things Commonly Done in Anime Sword fighting which is NEVER done in real swordfighting
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F / You, Knighted States
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Posted 1/20/16 , edited 1/21/16
Oh thank goodness for this thread. I mean, here I was thinking that using your shipmate as a third sword was realistic!

Posted 1/20/16
LOL ^
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27 / M / Northern Ireland
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Posted 1/20/16
This seems relevant = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tFOJFyTl1U

I also practice HEMA like the gentleman who runs this youtube channel (specifically German Longsword) and familiarity with it certainly does make you nitpick fictional sword fighting; not just anime but series like Game of Thrones as well.
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Posted 1/20/16 , edited 1/20/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Considering my the late middle ages, at least in Europe, swords could be had for about the same price as a single meal the surplus of swords must have been quite high. Also you know whetstones aren't just for sharpening a bit of metal, with a little work everything but the most severe chips and even out right edge breakage can be fixed. And if a whetstone couldn't do the job your average village blacksmith could. As long as you can bang out horseshoes or make nails you can at least fix edge damage.

Also plenty of people would have had access to swordsmanship training. This was an era of forced conscription after all and the villages and cities of that day would have been littered with combat veterans. Most people think that simply because the commoners didn't go around carrying swords as daily wear like the Knights and nobility did they didn't know how to use them. They did in fact have blade skill and your average man at arms was likely more skilled with a blade then your average knight simply by virtue of being on the front lines and on foot. They were just forbidden from carrying their preferred weapon of choice as daily wear both by decree and common sense. A three and half foot of sharpened steel hanging from your hip is an annoyance when your trying to chop down a tree, bake a loaf of bread, plough a field, etc.


See, here's the thing: I mentally shifted focus, but neglected to clearly indicate I'd done so. I was calling the 10th and 11th centuries to mind, and particularly northern Europe. Spears and knives were much more common melee weapons among common people at the time, and swords were pretty expensive. The period you're (understandably) looking at began and led into an age where people would use things like rapiers as implements of self-defence on the streets and were fairly common.

We're looking at two different things, unfortunately. My fault.


saprobe wrote:

Oh thank goodness for this thread. I mean, here I was thinking that using your shipmate as a third sword was realistic!


That's the best sword Zoro ever had.
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Posted 1/20/16

NoYams4u wrote:

you forgot to add not going to jail afterwards ?


but I think that law varies by state

in Texas we can have guns but not swords

I sooo have one of those cool samurai straw hats too


in arizona anything over 3 inches is a weapon by state law. no upper limit on length. so, yeah you can carry a katana legally. DOH!
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Posted 1/20/16 , edited 1/20/16

BlueOni wrote:



See, here's the thing: I mentally shifted focus, but neglected to clearly indicate I'd done so. I was calling the 10th and 11th centuries to mind, and particularly northern Europe. Spears and knives were much more common melee weapons among common people at the time, and swords were pretty expensive. The period you're (understandably) looking at began and led into an age where people would use things like rapiers as implements of self-defence on the streets and were fairly common.

We're looking at two different things, unfortunately. My fault.



You're rapidly beginning to lose credibility in my eyes mate. The dawn of the 11th century saw the birth of Crucible steel. Which made the manufacture of swords far easier since steel could now be made in large quantities and of uniform quality. Before that swords were only expensive simply because of how much effort a smith had to go through to produce the amount of steel needed to make a sword. Not to mention the few methods of making swords after the fall of Rome and before the High Middle Ages ( which by the way started in the 11th century as well) were laborious at best .

And not to mention Rapiers didn't show up until the 16th century, long after the middle ages.
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Posted 1/20/16 , edited 1/20/16

Ranwolf wrote:

You're rapidly beginning to lose credibility in my eyes mate. The dawn of the 11th century saw the birth of Crucible steel. Which made the manufacture of swords far easier since steel could now be made in large qualities and of uniform quality. Before that swords were only expensive simply because of how mow effort a smith had to go through to produce the amount of steel needed to make a sword. Not to mention the few methods of making swords after the fall of Rome and before the High Middle Ages ( which by the way started in the 11th century as well) were laborious at best .

And not to mention Rapiers didn't show up until the 16th century, long after the middle ages.


Well, here's something that may lend a bit of credibility back my way: I've checked into what you've said, and I've found confirmation. I retract what I previously said and admit that my understanding of weapons history isn't nearly as sharp as I thought.

http://www.academia.edu/6426127/Crucible_steel_in_medieval_swords

Thanks for improving my knowledge base.
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Posted 1/20/16

BlueOni wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

You're rapidly beginning to lose credibility in my eyes mate. The dawn of the 11th century saw the birth of Crucible steel. Which made the manufacture of swords far easier since steel could now be made in large quantities and of uniform quality. Before that swords were only expensive simply because of how much effort a smith had to go through to produce the amount of steel needed to make a sword. Not to mention the few methods of making swords after the fall of Rome and before the High Middle Ages ( which by the way started in the 11th century as well) were laborious at best .

And not to mention Rapiers didn't show up until the 16th century, long after the middle ages.


Well, here's something that may lend a bit of credibility back my way: I've checked into what you've said, and I've found confirmation. I retract what I previously said and admit that my understanding of weapons history isn't nearly as sharp as I thought.

http://www.academia.edu/6426127/Crucible_steel_in_medieval_swords

Thanks for improving my knowledge base.


No problem, weapon history is a passion of mine. Always has been and I suspect always will be.
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Posted 1/21/16

nemoskull wrote:


NoYams4u wrote:

you forgot to add not going to jail afterwards ?


but I think that law varies by state

in Texas we can have guns but not swords

I sooo have one of those cool samurai straw hats too


in arizona anything over 3 inches is a weapon by state law. no upper limit on length. so, yeah you can carry a katana legally. DOH!


wait does that mean if you hit someone with a ruler that's considered assault with a deadly weapon ?

holy snap can you imagine all the nuns that would get in trouble with that ?



oh and hold up

is it true that in Arizona you don't need weapon permits ?

was watching "the last stand" with Arnold Schwarzenegger and my friend who claims to be from Arizona (but sounds Canadian )

says this fact ruins the entire movie for him
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Posted 1/21/16
All i see is a bunch of peoples argueing something that should'nt be argued with words but rather with blades and blunts real fighters would prove their style's superiority in combat not in small talk.
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Posted 3/2/16
I find it annoying when some type of power comes out of the sword and hits someone far away.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16
Long time re-enactor, mostly Dark Ages, but have played with most periods. And have studied historical records and historical techniques.

Most Anime, film and even re-enactment fighting is just for show - to give the audience something fun and flashy to look at.
It's about as histroically accurate as Horns on Viking Helments, or Japanese Schoolgirl Samurai warlords.

True historical techniques are brutal but rarely flashy. A simple thrust straight in the face etc. Or a hack to the forearm to disable. A line of Roman Legionaries blocking with tower shields and occasional quick stabs with the gladiius, Minimalist but deadly.

True historical style fighting would be boring to watch for most people, which is why re-enactors show fight rather than realisticly fight. I've watched other re-enactment groups doing slightly more authentic prod prod prod with spears etc. and it looked boring to me, never mind the crowd. So we often ham it up. As does the movies, and even anime. Make it look good and fun to watch for entertainment value.

Historical combat is mostly thrusts or cuts to the head to kill, or attacks to the forearm and knee area to disable the opponent (much easier to then finish off a disabled opponent).
Also polearms (spears, halbards and pollaxes) are the true battlefield weapons. Swords are for slapping down peasents or for looking cool around town. They are actually not that good against armour, or anyone with a shield.
Knight vs knight sword fighting for instance uses the sword held more like polearm and uses pommel/cross guard bashing and slamming down with the pointy end with all your weight, rather than cuts and thrusts as that just scratches the armour.

In a duel it would be mostly movement and probing to look for an opening, whilst defending for leaving yourself open. Especially as duels would often be fought unarmoured.
Fights can easily last more than a few minutes. But that's because attacking recklessly leaves you open, so you don't commit unless you see an opening. It's rarely the one who makes a clever move that wins, but the one who makes a mistake that looses. And always be aware of the counterattack, even if you 'got them first'. You can easily have two loosers in a duel.

In a battle line it's mostly about keeping the line together and staying alive. Kill anyone that gives you an opening, but don't try to be a hero. Steaming in mostly just gets you killed. Although your mates can maybe explot the hole you just made, you will probably be dead. Once the line starts to crumble it is game over unless you get reinforced, or get lucky, as your side becomes outnumbered and defeated in detail.

And contary to what most people would think, it's not just the guy right in front of you you need to worry about. It's the guy next to him, or the one with a spear or other pole arm two warriors away that is most likely to get you when you leave an opening that the guy in your face can't use, but that they can.

Re-enactors do use real metal weapons, but they are blunts. The sponsers don't like real blood spurting around as it tends to uspset the visitors. And killing off your group members is not good for recruitment.
Most light armourmed re-enactments go for big flashy swings that:
A) are pulled before impact so the opponent only gets a light tap to know it would have hit, rather than a full on bone breaking whack. .
B) look good to the crowd - lots of clanging swords and shields being bashed etc.
C) swings are big and obvious - so that the person you are fighting can easily block and evade etc. As ou don't want to actually hurt them, just make it look like you do.
D) Rarely uses sword thrusts, or attacks to the head, as any actually contact can really really hurt. Especailly in lightly armoured periods.

N.B. having said all that, fully armoured knights (Tinnies) can happily beat the heck out of each other as they hae armour and padding so can take it.


Cheers
Stuntie.
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