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Post Reply Transgender people
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18 / F / Croatia
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Posted 1/21/16
What do you think about them? Why do you think so? Do you think insurance should cover most or all of the costs of the procedures they need to feel better about themselves? Whether or not someone is mutilating themselves, don't you think every human that doesn't inflict pain upon others has a right to be treated with dignity? The main thing you should judge someone by is personality, in my opinion.
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Posted 1/21/16
I don't think of them any different than any one else. Yes I think insurance should cover any surgery or corrective procedure. I do not feel they are mutilating them selves just correcting natures mistake.

And yes every human has a right to be treated fairly.
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Posted 1/21/16
I'm a very laid back person, I wouldn't think of them as any different than the next person. Yeah insurance should really cover procedures in which the persons quality of life is improved (mentally/physically). I know the NHS in the UK provides certain services in this department although unsure how far down the line you would have to start heavily investing in different procedures unless you went into private healthcare (Insurance).

As Neyamiko put it 'every human has a right to be treated fairly'
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Humms 
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Posted 1/21/16 , edited 1/21/16
NO.

Not to be an asshole, but a polite asshole with respect, and voicing my own opinion.

Leaving the Gays out of this discussion because I dont have an issue with them, but this is a whole new beast.

This is completely against nature. Men have testosterone, Women have estrogen. Such an excuse is shameful.

Everyone talks about accepting their body; so why do they change it? Now its just another reason to bring attention to them, which is all they want. They want that safety net they can always jump into by saying that disrespecting transgenders is wrong.

I'm a man, I make my choices, but you have to be kidding me when people actually want to make this decision. Treated fairly? In some cases you are literally taking away what makes you male, or female. Self mutilation for what? You are making yourself weak, you are completely changing your health and life for what? yikes man, the first question I would ask a trans gender is why? And dont feed me the excuse about how you dont feel right in your current body.

You were once an infant, a child, and those memories are fuzzy, but whoever was raising you have seen you smile and laugh. Does that not mean you are happy in your body? Even though you cannot remember what you have done when you were young, you know that you have smiled and laughed in your current body and gender.

People are being brain washed to the point where they dont know what to do with their life, That is Lazy, and it is sad to see our generation become a movement against human nature.

The truth is, we all have thoughts about many things. Thoughts about opposite sex, Thoughts about Same sex relations, Thoughts about being a Woman, being a man, but people take it to the extreme, because they are lost, and by doing so they think people will always accept them for being who they are, and guess what?

The world does, because we have become weak, we allow people like this to walk all over us because it is discrimination if we say otherwise, and if we say anything against them it is basically a crime. It has now become a proving grounds on the basis of being different because I was meant to be this way.

If you cant accept the body you have been given, Why do you need to change it? For the life of me I cant understand why. Covering the surgery? How about you cover my surgery for 20/1 vision because my belief is that my life was meant to see the world in full view and clarity, and if you don't pay for my surgery you are discriminating against my beliefs and morals, which is an absolute disgrace to my way of life, and should be voiced to the world if you deny me of my rights.

There you go, transgender summed up.

This rant has been brought to you by the Cynical polite respectful asshole with said opinions Good day.
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Posted 1/23/16
I like data and research driven solutions to problems. We know that people who suffer from this identity disorder often attempt suicide and have other very negative outcomes, so clearly they need support and there is a problem here. Currently available data shows improvement for roughly 2/3 of those who undergo reassignment surgery. Almost all also continue psychological therapy though, so it is difficult to evaluate how much the surgery contributes to their improvement. It would be rather difficult to ethically devise an experiment that could help untangle that. I am fine with insurance covering the surgeries if a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist approves it.

Humms wrote:

NO.

Not to be an asshole, but a polite asshole with respect, and voicing my own opinion.

Leaving the Gays out of this discussion because I dont have an issue with them, but this is a whole new beast.

This is completely against nature. Men have testosterone, Women have estrogen. Such an excuse is shameful.

Everyone talks about accepting their body; so why do they change it? Now its just another reason to bring attention to them, which is all they want. They want that safety net they can always jump into by saying that disrespecting transgenders is wrong.

I'm a man, I make my choices, but you have to be kidding me when people actually want to make this decision. Treated fairly? In some cases you are literally taking away what makes you male, or female. Self mutilation for what? You are making yourself weak, you are completely changing your health and life for what? yikes man, the first question I would ask a trans gender is why? And dont feed me the excuse about how you dont feel right in your current body.

You were once an infant, a child, and those memories are fuzzy, but whoever was raising you have seen you smile and laugh. Does that not mean you are happy in your body? Even though you cannot remember what you have done when you were young, you know that you have smiled and laughed in your current body and gender.

People are being brain washed to the point where they dont know what to do with their life, That is Lazy, and it is sad to see our generation become a movement against human nature.

The truth is, we all have thoughts about many things. Thoughts about opposite sex, Thoughts about Same sex relations, Thoughts about being a Woman, being a man, but people take it to the extreme, because they are lost, and by doing so they think people will always accept them for being who they are, and guess what?

The world does, because we have become weak, we allow people like this to walk all over us because it is discrimination if we say otherwise, and if we say anything against them it is basically a crime. It has now become a proving grounds on the basis of being different because I was meant to be this way.

If you cant accept the body you have been given, Why do you need to change it? For the life of me I cant understand why. Covering the surgery? How about you cover my surgery for 20/1 vision because my belief is that my life was meant to see the world in full view and clarity, and if you don't pay for my surgery you are discriminating against my beliefs and morals, which is an absolute disgrace to my way of life, and should be voiced to the world if you deny me of my rights.

There you go, transgender summed up.

This rant has been brought to you by the Cynical polite respectful asshole with said opinions Good day.

If your vision is detrimental to life outcomes then insurance should cover correction thereof such that it is not detrimental. As to feeling they are born in the wrong body, this has been documented through much of history. It isn't new. It has also been linked to greatly increased risk of depression and suicide. These feelings are usually intensified during puberty. I would disagree with a number of points in your post. Laziness has nothing to do with it, especially considering it is demonstrably more difficult and stressful. Being forced to engage in things that cause cognitive dissonance causes decline in both physical and mental health. There is ample data and research to support this. Feeling like they are in the wrong body has been demonstrated to be a source of cognitive dissonance. This means it is hardly an "excuse", but a medical phenomenon of a psychological nature. If you're not cool with it, that's fine. It doesn't change any of the things I listed above though. Also, as an infant, many children ate disgusting things and smiled. Does that mean that we should all begin eating all those things since clearly it should bring us pleasure by the logic used? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you have an opinion about something that is objectively provable then while you are entitled to hold it, you can still be very wrong. Please don't think I am angry with you, I just feel that you hold opinions that run counter to what I have seen demonstrated as factual.
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Posted 1/23/16
I get it, some people don't understand or accept what transpeople go through, even fellow atheists and free-thinkers, who supposedly have a more open mind, might be opposed to it. They will never get it because they can't experience what the transperson does and never will. Is it really about trying to better the world via the endless quest to eliminate discrimination and intolerance? Maybe it's impossible to eliminate those from the human race, but I think the mantra of the free-thinker - the atheist who sees past dogma-supported surveillance and social order - is that as individuals, we have the freedom and the right to live our life the way it makes us the happiest. THAT is the goal, the pinnacle of a happy society. But that doesn't mean it's realistic to achieve it.

So in other words, let people reshape their bodies into an appearance that suits their personality and the way they would like people to see them. They aren't hurting anybody. Personally I wouldn't limit it to just sex and genitals. In the future we might develop the technology for prosthetic body accessories to become much more accessible. And the future is headed that way anyway. The same old human form is boring anyway.
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Humms 
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Posted 1/23/16


Lol you can be angry with me, that's what makes us human, I just didn't want to stir the pot in the opposite direction, I simply said what needed to be said. If you want to go with research and facts, all the power to you, in fact I'd like to see a test done on a group of people.

Get a dozen females and raise them surrounded by a feminine lifestyle, don't introduce them to males or what a male lifestyle consists of, get past puberty, and then introduce them to the world.

Do the exact same thing with a dozen males, but surround them with masculine lifestyles. During this experiment see if any of them will find a way to be uncomfortable in their own body. Do you actually think they could find a reason?

It's all psychological. It's how we are raised, what we see, what we learn. Maybe out of the dozen participants, some might be gay, but that's about it, I would guarantee nobody would want to change their body, because they don't know about the opposite sex.

Give any child something sour and they will all make the same facial expression. Give any adult something sour and they will make the same facial expression..... yeah this can go on forever. Not to say that people don't change their ways. A child won't like something bitter, but as an adult they will. My point was simply about being comfortable in your body, and if you say people will also change their feelings about their body that is purely psychological, and the fact that people grow into acquiring their liking to something overtime without being exposed to media, or other sources.

So what am I driving at? People make it their problem when there wasn't a problem in the first place, because of what you stated, cognitive dissonance. Do you feel more comfortable talking with a group of females, or males? It's one or the other for most people, so what do they do? If a male feels more comfortable talking with females should that mean he is having inconsistent thoughts? If a female feels more comfortable talking to males should that mean she is having inconsistent thoughts?

Depression. How to overcome it. Feeling better. These are all phycological. People will have this obsession of change when they only need to change the way they think.

I sometimes have gay thoughts, does that make me gay?
I sometimes do feminine things, should that mean I need to be a woman? It's something we all do on a daily basis, but it all comes down to what attracts you, and not what you think attracts you.

I have my opinion, you have yours. I just wanted to clarify a few things.
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Posted 1/23/16

Feeling like they are in the wrong body has happened in many societies, including societies that did not have the same ideas of femininity and masculinity that we do. Being raised only among one gender and with one social schema wouldn't prevent that feeling, it would just mean they would not have an alternative to identify with. They would still be very unhappy and suffer mental health issues.

My daughter loved the taste of lemon from a very early age. Not everyone reacts the same way to different flavors, not everyone changes their reactions over time in the same way or at the same pace. Humans are built differently to one another. Some are built so differently there is a much larger difference than is common (i.e. bell curves).

Actual depression is not controlled by how you think. It is controlled by chemicals in your brain that are not being regulated properly. Sometimes an environmental trigger starts it, other times it is purely internal. The flaw is in the regulation of the neurochemicals involved, not in how someone is thinking. For someone who is susceptible to this imbalance serious stressors are more likely to trigger this. You say "purely psychological" like that makes it insignificant. Considering we have documented evidence of psychosomatic interactions causing major physical changes in humans a psychological disorder can be even more serious than some physical ones. The brain controls almost all the major functions and if it is in distress that impairs the regulation of those functions and it can have serious consequences. You can't just magically will yourself better. Learning to change problematic thought processes does not prevent depression or end it, some dodgy research suggests that at best it can help mitigate symptoms.

Sometimes having thoughts is not the same as a consistent and pervasive issue. Any normal human is a mixture of traits and even biological markers related to gender. Generally males have more masculine traits then feminine and vice versa for females. This is not always the case though. Some people identify with the opposite gender and are still fine in their body. For others it causes cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance cannot always be remedied merely by changing the way one thinks. Sometimes it requires changes in lifestyle or other changes. Feeling more comfortable talking to one gender or the other has very little to do with the issue at hand at all. It has to do with how they feel in their own flesh in most cases.

I am not trying to be rude, but some of this is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of data and scientific fact. Contrary to what many people seem to think, opinions can be entirely mistaken and wrong when they are about factual things.
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Posted 1/24/16
I think they are just fine, i don't think any different about them then i would anyone else.

Yes i think insurance should cover it, i do believe they are born into the wrong bodies sometimes, and it should be fixed if that's the case with no cost to them!

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Posted 1/24/16
I'll go ahead and post my unpopular opinion. I don't care that they identify with another gender, but I don't think they deserve special treatment to undergo SRS. All they are doing is making themselves infertile, and attaching/inverting their own body parts.

It does not change the fact that they were born male/female, and it does not change the fact that they spent a large part of their life being regarded and treated as that gender, nor does it change the fact that that diseases/illnesses common in the sex that they were born in will still apply to them. To me, treating them different because they identify as some other gender is no different than treating them differently because they are white and wish that they were black; it just doesn't change the fact that they were born white.

I typically avoid using pronouns when referring to someone who has undergone SRS, but in the case that it would sound incredibly awkward not to, I will refer to them as the pronoun in which they originated.

I have never met a transgender, but I would not have a problem associating with him/her so long as he/she can accept the fact that I don't consider SRS to be complete enough to constitute calling them by a different gender. In fact, I have heard that the average trans outside of tumblr does not care if you do not call them by their identified gender so long as you do not treat them differently because they are transgender.

So there's my opinion.
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Posted 1/24/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

I have never met a transgender, but I would not have a problem associating with him/her so long as he/she can accept the fact that I don't consider SRS to be complete enough to constitute calling them by a different gender. In fact, I have heard that the average trans outside of tumblr does not care if you do not call them by their identified gender so long as you do not treat them differently because they are transgender.


Where did you get that from? Calling a trans person the gender they were born as often leads to dysphoria being triggered. It's an important part of their identity. I'm sure you'd hate it if someone called you female all the time.
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Posted 1/24/16

Nalaniel wrote:

Where did you get that from? Calling a trans person the gender they were born as often leads to dysphoria being triggered. It's an important part of their identity. I'm sure you'd hate it if someone called you female all the time.

From the people who actually know transgenders.

And no, I would not care; I'm an adult: I'll just ignore someone who calls me a female.
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Posted 1/24/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Nalaniel wrote:

Where did you get that from? Calling a trans person the gender they were born as often leads to dysphoria being triggered. It's an important part of their identity. I'm sure you'd hate it if someone called you female all the time.

From the people who actually know transgenders.

And no, I would not care; I'm an adult: I'll just ignore someone who calls me a female.


Exactly. Talking to someone who misgenders you is rather bothersome.
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Posted 1/24/16

Nalaniel wrote:

Exactly. Talking to someone who misgenders you is rather bothersome.

Maybe in 2015. Much larger things to worry about than someone calling me by something I don't identify as. You either accept it or not; complaining about it is also your prerogative, but it does not make it worth a fuss.
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Posted 1/24/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Nalaniel wrote:

Exactly. Talking to someone who misgenders you is rather bothersome.

Maybe in 2015. Much larger things to worry about than someone calling me by something I don't identify as. You either accept it or not; complaining about it is also your prerogative, but it does not make it worth a fuss.


Trans people existed 2000 years ago. I'm sure there were other things to worry about, too. Doesn't make this less bothersome.
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