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Post Reply Stupid Bills That California and New York Are Working On
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Posted 1/26/16
This is a seriously bad law that New York state and California are trying to pass. If you live in New York or in California, then you need to call, email, write to your representatives and tell them to vote no on this monumentally bad idea.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-iphone-ban-california-wants-to-outlaw-encrypted-smartphones-sale/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61

Why I think it's bad? Because, one: it is a violation of our Forth Amendment rights. If law enforcement wants to look at the contents of my cell phone, then let them get a warrant from a judge. Let them come get my cell phones and let them access the contents of my cell phones.

What they want with this back door into your cell phone is a way to look at your cell phone contents without a need to ask a judge for a search warrant, and to be able to do it randomly and en-mass. In other words, they want to make it easier for government agencies to do NSA style spying on large groups of people.

Two, a back door designed into a smartphone WILL BE FOUND AND EXPLOITED by cyber criminals. They would love nothing better than to be able to remotely access your phone and steal your data. Your credit card and bank transactions would be compromised and that data can lead to your bank account getting wiped, and fraudulent charges added to your credit cards. Not to mention all of your other accounts that you access with user names and passwords will via your smart phone will all be compromised.

This legislation is bad news and a terrible intrusion of our privacy and a terrible violation of our right not to be searched without due process - a Judge's Warrant.
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Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/27/16
^ FYI - If you feel that way about law enforcement looking at your phone, you better not travel internationally. Even if you are an American citizen, when it come to airports and borders, you have no rights. CBP can look at your phone without your consent. It's called Border Search Authority,

I'm ok with law enforcement having the ability to look at my phone. My thought is that if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. No one in law enforcement cares about your emails to your snookums or your fantasy football leagues.
Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/27/16

Akage-chan wrote:

^ FYI - If you feel that way about law enforcement looking at your phone, you better not travel internationally. Even if you are an American citizen, when it come to airports and borders, you have no rights. CBP can look at your phone without your consent. It's called Border Search Authority,

I'm ok with law enforcement having the ability to look at my phone. My thought is that if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. No one in law enforcement cares about your emails to your snookums or your fantasy football leagues.


Yeah, that logic is very flawed. So no. I rather have my privacy. You may feel fine having a stranger looking into your personals things but I don't.
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34 / M / Off the map.
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Posted 1/26/16
"... and sold in state..." I think there are going to be more trips to Las Vegas in the near future.
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40 / M / USA
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Posted 1/26/16
If I lived in either of those I'd care more. Thankfully, I don't though.

I do travel to NY for work sometimes though... Oh well. I'll just pass off my work phone as my personal if there's any issues.
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Posted 1/26/16
Two problems with your understanding of the situation:

1. This will not remove the need to require a warrant to check someones cell phone. The Supreme Court has ruled that a warrant is required to search a cell phone so this will not override that.

2. A warrant currently doesn't help with a locked cell phone. Because you cannot compel someone to give up information from their head, if a phone is locked, the police can try to get in using password breakers and the like, but if they can't, well thats that.

This would simply allow the police to access phones post-warrant that would otherwise be un-accessible.
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Posted 1/26/16

KarenAraragi wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

^ FYI - If you feel that way about law enforcement looking at your phone, you better not travel internationally. Even if you are an American citizen, when it come to airports and borders, you have no rights. CBP can look at your phone without your consent. It's called Border Search Authority,

I'm ok with law enforcement having the ability to look at my phone. My thought is that if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. No one in law enforcement cares about your emails to your snookums or your fantasy football leagues.


Yeah, that logic is very flawed. So no. I rather have my privacy. You may feel fine having a stranger looking into your personals things but I don't.


Not only privacy, but to surrender your basic rights to government... To give up a right that American Revolutionaries died for when they broke from England, and established the United States with its Constitution and its Bill of Rights....

You should not be fine with surrendering such rights so easily. You should tell government to back off, even if you have nothing to hide.
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102 / M / Hicksville Ohio(n...
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Posted 1/26/16

KarenAraragi wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

^ FYI - If you feel that way about law enforcement looking at your phone, you better not travel internationally. Even if you are an American citizen, when it come to airports and borders, you have no rights. CBP can look at your phone without your consent. It's called Border Search Authority,

I'm ok with law enforcement having the ability to look at my phone. My thought is that if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. No one in law enforcement cares about your emails to your snookums or your fantasy football leagues.


Yeah, that logic is very flawed. So no. I rather have my privacy. You may feel fine having a stranger looking into your personals things but I don't.


Yep. Stupid people in the world. If a cop(or any government worker) showed up at your door and said i want to come in and look around would you let them, because you had nothing to hide???? Stupid stupid stupid law.

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Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/26/16

sundin13 wrote:

Two problems with your understanding of the situation:

1. This will not remove the need to require a warrant to check someones cell phone. The Supreme Court has ruled that a warrant is required to search a cell phone so this will not override that.

2. A warrant currently doesn't help with a locked cell phone. Because you cannot compel someone to give up information from their head, if a phone is locked, the police can try to get in using password breakers and the like, but if they can't, well thats that.

This would simply allow the police to access phones post-warrant that would otherwise be un-accessible.


You assume that is their intent. However, under Patriot Act, and with the way the NSA and Homeland Security have been doing things, what will happen is that they will conduct large scale searches. Notice that it's New York and California that are doing this. These states are the victims of recent terrorist attacks. They'll use this legislation to search everyone, violate everyone's Forth Amendment rights in order to ferret out a few sleeper cells.

This will be abused.

The other part is that building a back door into a cell phone will mean it is compromised and subject to cyber criminals who will find the door and use it to rob us blind. This is the worst and most blatant disregard of our Forth Amendment rights I have seen since the enactment of the Patriot Act and the establishment of our secret police - the Homeland Security Dept.

This stupid law will not stop criminals nor terrorists from getting their cell phone from Las Vegas, as someone has already alluded to, or New Jersey.
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Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/26/16

sundin13 wrote:

Two problems with your understanding of the situation:

1. This will not remove the need to require a warrant to check someones cell phone. The Supreme Court has ruled that a warrant is required to search a cell phone so this will not override that.

2. A warrant currently doesn't help with a locked cell phone. Because you cannot compel someone to give up information from their head, if a phone is locked, the police can try to get in using password breakers and the like, but if they can't, well thats that.

This would simply allow the police to access phones post-warrant that would otherwise be un-accessible.


This is what I was thinking.

I get it, because I don't like my privacy being invaded, either....

But, if you're worried about officials looking through your phone after they have a warrant, maybe you ARE a criminal. I mean, I don't expect to have any such warrants against me, and if by some terrible misunderstanding I do, and they have a warrant, sure dig through my crap. You'll find me to be a terribly boring and lame person, and then go about your business. lol
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Posted 1/26/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Two problems with your understanding of the situation:

1. This will not remove the need to require a warrant to check someones cell phone. The Supreme Court has ruled that a warrant is required to search a cell phone so this will not override that.

2. A warrant currently doesn't help with a locked cell phone. Because you cannot compel someone to give up information from their head, if a phone is locked, the police can try to get in using password breakers and the like, but if they can't, well thats that.

This would simply allow the police to access phones post-warrant that would otherwise be un-accessible.


This is what I was thinking.

I get it, because I don't like my privacy being invaded, either....

But, if you're worried about officials looking through your phone after they have a warrant, maybe you ARE a criminal. I mean, I don't expect to have any such warrants against me, and if by some terrible misunderstanding I do, and they have a warrant, sure dig through my crap. You'll find me to be a terribly boring and lame person, and then go about your business. lol


You could be doing illegal things on your phone and not even know it, ever not paid for an MP3 but have it on your phone? They can search you till they find something then charge you for being a criminal.
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27 / M / Buffalo NY
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Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/26/16
Story Time!!!!!

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class.
One day while the class was in the lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter.
The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime.

In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked: "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.

The young man said that it was no joke. "You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground.
The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn.

"When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.
When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence.

"They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

"The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again.
You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom.
They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn.
They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America .
The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc.
While we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.
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Posted 1/26/16
Universal backdoors on devices are always more trouble than they are worth. ANY backdoor will never be secure. Computers use numbers, not magic.
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24 / M
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Posted 1/26/16 , edited 1/26/16

DeadlyOats wrote:


You assume that is their intent. However, under Patriot Act, and with the way the NSA and Homeland Security have been doing things, what will happen is that they will conduct large scale searches. Notice that it's New York and California that are doing this. These states are the victims of recent terrorist attacks. They'll use this legislation to search everyone, violate everyone's Forth Amendment rights in order to ferret out a few sleeper cells.

This will be abused.

The other part is that building a back door into a cell phone will mean it is compromised and subject to cyber criminals who will find the door and use it to rob us blind. This is the worst and most blatant disregard of our Forth Amendment rights I have seen since the enactment of the Patriot Act and the establishment of our secret police - the Homeland Security Dept.

This stupid law will not stop criminals nor terrorists from getting their cell phone from Las Vegas, as someone has already alluded to, or New Jersey.


Again, it cannot be abused in the way you believe, as the Supreme Court has already ruled that warrants are required to search mobile phones. No judge will allow mass warrants without any probably cause. You are over-reacting. Also, it is not an infringement on fourth amendment rights as it does not remove the warrant requirement.

As for the other part, it is a fair consideration, although it does require the criminal to actually have the phone before taking anything from it so it isn't as big of a concern as you seem to think here also.
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23 / M / Beyond The Wall
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Posted 1/26/16
Better start carrying around burn phones like I do
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