First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Post Reply U.S shootings article, misreading or misleading?
16757 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Hoosierville
Offline
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

theYchromosome wrote:

Not taking a side here, but I will note that even at the 33%, that's

500,000 gun-homicides since 1968, and
1,400,000 military deaths since 1775-ish

It took us 50 years to get a third of what took our military 240 to accomplish. Even if they were misleading, they have no small point. But, I think if misrepresentation was their goal, they could still have accurately said 1.5 million gun-related deaths, and not mention that 2/3 were suicides. But, they flat out state the numbers and are straight up about the fact that they couldn't find anything before 1968. I actually think this is fine. Also, Huffington Post blows. Literally only read it when it's linked by others.

Edit: Actually, if I'm being real, the more revolting aspect is that war deaths are literally compatible with the amount of death as a result of insanity or depravity (suicide and homicide). Our country is literally keeping up with the lowest-regarded part of our society. State-sanctioned violence is actually the interesting offender in this statistic, to me at least.

Edit 2: Actually, that's deaths of US soldiers. Kills is (google tells me) 10's of millions. Now that I think about it, that's actually so obvious it hurts.


and 1,451,572 Motor vehicle accidents since 1980.

Ironic that war doesn't even compare to the number of people killed in car accidents. Just driving around is more likely to get you killed than war.

11,208 deaths by homicide 2013
30,208 deaths by falling 2013

Gravity is more likely to kill you than a gun.
5117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

theYchromosome wrote:

Edit: Actually, if I'm being real, the more revolting aspect is that war deaths are literally compatible with the amount of death as a result of insanity or depravity (suicide and homicide). Our country is literally keeping up with the lowest-regarded part of our society. State-sanctioned violence is actually the interesting offender in this statistic, to me at least.

Edit 2: Actually, 1.4 mil is deaths of US soldiers. Kills is (google tells me) 10's of millions. Now that I think about it, that's actually so obvious it hurts.


Exactly, these statistics, to me, say more about war deaths and suicides then just gun homicides.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Imperiex wrote:

Yeah, I already knew the answer to it. What I was pointing out is suicide can be abnormally high, regardless if guns are like candy, or have high strict laws in place. That wasn't a jab at gun laws mind you, that was just stating that suicide by gun shouldn't be counted as gun violence, at least in my mind, to prove we need stricter gun laws. Just stick with the 500,000 homicides, that is a plenty big number in of itself and a legitimate issue,


This could also prove our mental health system is crap, or we need better checks. I mean, from my experience, a great deal of suicidal people purposely display their symptoms as a cry for help.


It is very true, our system sucks, it is obvious. I have had two friends, at least the only two that I know of, contemplating suicide, with one trying multiple times regardless of what I tried, but she ended up failing anyways.

Was talking to one, and i didn't know she was contemplating it. We just had a casual conversation, I hadn't seen her in a while, and she started to let little hints slip, verbal and emotional abuse from her father, and a mother who was also abused, so treated her like crap too. I talked and helped her best I could, my mother going through the same thing as a kid. it wasn't until months later she even mentioned she was contemplating suicide, but I happened to talk to her at a critical juncture. She says i saved her life, I honestly am not sure that much, one could argue she maybe wasn't super serious if I managed to talk her down, without even realizing it. Dunno, not my place to question.

Look at the rate of suicides for military veterans, and nothing is done except long ass waiting lines. How many mentally depraved and ill people get a hold of a gun to start shooting people? Part is lax gun laws in some areas, but also a part of how someone that is that ill, slipped through the cracks of the healthcare system, never receiving help, and if they are not in the system as ill, makes it a lot easier to go through a check. Those background checks even in the strictest gun law states only really check your criminal history, not mental health as far as I understand.
Posted 1/28/16

Rujikin wrote:


theYchromosome wrote:

Not taking a side here, but I will note that even at the 33%, that's

500,000 gun-homicides since 1968, and
1,400,000 military deaths since 1775-ish

It took us 50 years to get a third of what took our military 240 to accomplish. Even if they were misleading, they have no small point. But, I think if misrepresentation was their goal, they could still have accurately said 1.5 million gun-related deaths, and not mention that 2/3 were suicides. But, they flat out state the numbers and are straight up about the fact that they couldn't find anything before 1968. I actually think this is fine. Also, Huffington Post blows. Literally only read it when it's linked by others.

Edit: Actually, if I'm being real, the more revolting aspect is that war deaths are literally compatible with the amount of death as a result of insanity or depravity (suicide and homicide). Our country is literally keeping up with the lowest-regarded part of our society. State-sanctioned violence is actually the interesting offender in this statistic, to me at least.

Edit 2: Actually, that's deaths of US soldiers. Kills is (google tells me) 10's of millions. Now that I think about it, that's actually so obvious it hurts.


and 1,451,572 Motor vehicle accidents since 1980.

Ironic that war doesn't even compare to the number of people killed in car accidents. Just driving around is more likely to get you killed than war.

11,208 deaths by homicide 2013
30,208 deaths by falling 2013

Gravity is more likely to kill you than a gun.

Well, considering how often cars are used, the rate of ownership, and the fact that they are a modern convenience of life, I believe it. What I don't believe is the "Why don't we ban cars" argument, considering guns are far more niche than cars, and have no use other than shooting stuff.
47864 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

Rujikin wrote:



and 1,451,572 Motor vehicle accidents since 1980.

Ironic that war doesn't even compare to the number of people killed in car accidents. Just driving around is more likely to get you killed than war.

11,208 deaths by homicide 2013
30,208 deaths by falling 2013

Gravity is more likely to kill you than a gun.


And the death toll on Iraq is 500k+, with well over 100k civilians. But more importantly, if 'gravity control' were a thing, you bet we'd consider it. Homicides and war are generally talked about, because it's presumed we can do something about them. Whether that's true or not is something I'm quite ignorant of.
5117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16
Woopsies accidental double post.
5117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

PeripheralVisionary
Well, considering how often cars are used, the rate of ownership, and the fact that they are a modern convenience of life, I believe it. What I don't believe is the "Why don't we ban cars" argument, considering guns are far more niche than cars, and have no use other than shooting stuff.


Well alcohol is legal, and causes a lot of car accidents, and it is a lil more niche too. Shouldn't someone background check you not just for age, but see if you have a violent history or DUI's, get an idea what you will do drunk?

That is a more accurate argument I think then the ban all cars argument, which is really more of a joke but it has its shortcomings.
16757 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Hoosierville
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


theYchromosome wrote:

Not taking a side here, but I will note that even at the 33%, that's

500,000 gun-homicides since 1968, and
1,400,000 military deaths since 1775-ish

It took us 50 years to get a third of what took our military 240 to accomplish. Even if they were misleading, they have no small point. But, I think if misrepresentation was their goal, they could still have accurately said 1.5 million gun-related deaths, and not mention that 2/3 were suicides. But, they flat out state the numbers and are straight up about the fact that they couldn't find anything before 1968. I actually think this is fine. Also, Huffington Post blows. Literally only read it when it's linked by others.

Edit: Actually, if I'm being real, the more revolting aspect is that war deaths are literally compatible with the amount of death as a result of insanity or depravity (suicide and homicide). Our country is literally keeping up with the lowest-regarded part of our society. State-sanctioned violence is actually the interesting offender in this statistic, to me at least.

Edit 2: Actually, that's deaths of US soldiers. Kills is (google tells me) 10's of millions. Now that I think about it, that's actually so obvious it hurts.


and 1,451,572 Motor vehicle accidents since 1980.

Ironic that war doesn't even compare to the number of people killed in car accidents. Just driving around is more likely to get you killed than war.

11,208 deaths by homicide 2013
30,208 deaths by falling 2013

Gravity is more likely to kill you than a gun.

Well, considering how often cars are used, the rate of ownership, and the fact that they are a modern convenience of life, I believe it. What I don't believe is the "Why don't we ban cars" argument, considering guns are far more niche than cars, and have no use other than shooting stuff.


An object who's onpy use is "shooting stuff" is safer than an object where they spend thousands on safety features. Don't you find that the least bit interesting considering its estimated we have over 300 million guns in the USA.
Posted 1/28/16

Rujikin wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


theYchromosome wrote:

Not taking a side here, but I will note that even at the 33%, that's

500,000 gun-homicides since 1968, and
1,400,000 military deaths since 1775-ish

It took us 50 years to get a third of what took our military 240 to accomplish. Even if they were misleading, they have no small point. But, I think if misrepresentation was their goal, they could still have accurately said 1.5 million gun-related deaths, and not mention that 2/3 were suicides. But, they flat out state the numbers and are straight up about the fact that they couldn't find anything before 1968. I actually think this is fine. Also, Huffington Post blows. Literally only read it when it's linked by others.

Edit: Actually, if I'm being real, the more revolting aspect is that war deaths are literally compatible with the amount of death as a result of insanity or depravity (suicide and homicide). Our country is literally keeping up with the lowest-regarded part of our society. State-sanctioned violence is actually the interesting offender in this statistic, to me at least.

Edit 2: Actually, that's deaths of US soldiers. Kills is (google tells me) 10's of millions. Now that I think about it, that's actually so obvious it hurts.


and 1,451,572 Motor vehicle accidents since 1980.

Ironic that war doesn't even compare to the number of people killed in car accidents. Just driving around is more likely to get you killed than war.

11,208 deaths by homicide 2013
30,208 deaths by falling 2013

Gravity is more likely to kill you than a gun.

Well, considering how often cars are used, the rate of ownership, and the fact that they are a modern convenience of life, I believe it. What I don't believe is the "Why don't we ban cars" argument, considering guns are far more niche than cars, and have no use other than shooting stuff.


An object who's onpy use is "shooting stuff" is safer than an object where they spend thousands on safety features. Don't you find that the least bit interesting considering its estimated we have over 300 million guns in the USA.


All I'm saying is apples and oranges.
13131 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

Imperiex wrote:


PeripheralVisionary
Well, considering how often cars are used, the rate of ownership, and the fact that they are a modern convenience of life, I believe it. What I don't believe is the "Why don't we ban cars" argument, considering guns are far more niche than cars, and have no use other than shooting stuff.


Well alcohol is legal, and causes a lot of car accidents, and it is a lil more niche too. Shouldn't someone background check you not just for age, but see if you have a violent history or DUI's, get an idea what you will do drunk?

That is a more accurate argument I think then the ban all cars argument, which is really more of a joke but it has its shortcomings.


If someone has a history of dui, they will get their licence revoked, meaning they can't legally drive.

As for your comment on Japan's suicide, for obvious reasons comparing completely different countries accomplishes nothing. That is why statistics within the US comparing suicide rates with gun ownership rates are much more probative
Posted 1/28/16
Not to mention, as stated before, that Japan has a far less diverse society than America and a host of other factors that one should consider when crafting gun laws.
6628 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / England
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

Rujikin wrote:

Suicides are not murders. If you really want to kill yourself just drive 120 MPH straight into a brick wall (break safety bag), go jump head first off a tall building, inject bleach straight into your veins, tie a few cement blocks to yourself and jump off a bridge, pretend like you have a suicide vest and jump the white house fence, etc... Murder is not suicide and the anti-gun side has to pad their argument to get the emotional factor otherwise their argument doesn't hold water.

I really don't see why people go through the trouble of getting a gun for suicide. Seems like a hassle when you want to die and end it all.


Gun to the head is a hell of a lot better than any of those (other than perhaps jumping off of a tall building assuming you land head first). Plus you've have to be inhumanely masochistic to inject bleach.
5117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16
Well I was more stating guns in themselves do not increase suicides per se, as countries without them have their own issues with suicide. Different cultures, I know.

I know of people that get DUI's, then go driving anyways, and some people do not drive but just get violent, but I digress.

But, well over 300 million guns are owned in the US, true, and that doesn't count the unregistered guns. And 50% of suicides are done by gun, out of the 117 per day. But are guns causing those suicides, or does it happen half the people just think screw it, gun is fast quick and easy?

It seems like a case of taking the easy way out, not that guns cause the issues themselves. To me the statistics say more about suicides in general, not the method of killing oneself.
16757 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Hoosierville
Offline
Posted 1/28/16

Imperiex wrote:

But, well over 300 million guns are owned in the US, true, and that doesn't count the unregistered guns. And 50% of suicides are done by gun, out of the 117 per day. But are guns causing those suicides, or does it happen half the people just think screw it, gun is fast quick and easy?

It seems like a case of taking the easy way out, not that guns cause the issues themselves. To me the statistics say more about suicides in general, not the method of killing oneself.


That's an estimate of registered and unregistered. Without a registry you can only estimate. Still its about one gun per person.

Well in our culture shooting yourself is considered the easy way out so that might be influencing them. Gotta make sure to aim at the brain though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q-Xb96eAc
5117 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16
Exactly, it is way higher. And it is true, guns are the easiest way, or one of, unless you miss. And having a gun on hand helps. But did having that gun make you commit suicide, when without it you wouldn't? If everyone owns a gun of COURSE you will see a correlation between gun ownership and suicide. But was it a coincidence or an actual correlation? That was the point I have been getting at.

But yeah, I would say people would be, if they are suicidal, would have an attraction to using a gun. The other methods of suicide can cause great pain, and if not done right, take a long time to kill. 50% is by gun, so the other 50% is every other method, so it is obvious, at least in America, a gun seems the easiest way out to people.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 1/28/16
Doctors fuck up and kill about 175,000 Americans each year.

That's 8,225,000 people in 47 years. It was safer to be a Jew in Nazi Germany than visit the doctor.

First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.