You views on redemption.
Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16
4 questions:

1.)Do you believe in it?

2.)what do you see a person must do in accordance to what they've done?

3)what circumstances can it happen?

4) and in which cases it cannot happen?



My turn: I think it depends on context and goes on a case by case basis, some feel that everyone can redeem themselves or be redeemed, others like me say it depends. e.g. I don't believe someone like hitler could ever be redeemed.


What are your views on the subject?
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Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

lunarxx wrote:

4 questions:

1.)Do you believe in it?

2.)what do you see a person must do in accordance to what they've done?

3)what circumstances can it happen?

4) and in which cases it cannot happen?



My turn: I think it depends on context and goes on a case by case basis, some feel that everyone can redeem themselves or be redeemed, others like me say it depends. What are your views on the subject?


1. I suppose it's possible. I don't believe in it, though. To me, once something wrong has been done, it has happened without a doubt even if you go back and fix it. A mistake is a mistake. People can move past them but cannot ignore the fact they happened.

2. It depends on the weight of the transgression, the sincerity of the act of atonement, and the burden of the act on the transgressor seeking redemption.

3. I think redemption isn't really up to the wrongdoer, it's up to the one that was wronged. Without forgiveness, there is no redemption. An act of atonement after the fact doesn't change the fact that a wrongdoing occurred. It's up to the wronged to accept the act of atonement as sufficient and move on. I think redemption almost entirely depends on forgiveness. There must also be a meaningful act of atonement.

4. The more severe and irreversible a wrongdoing is, the less likely it is that one can be redeemed from it, since those wronged will be less likely or willing to forgive.

There are such things as stupid, unreasonable grudges, but I still think redemption is not up the the one who did something wrong to begin with, for that particular act. You can have people doing increasingly terrible things to one another, but each act should be isolated and dealt with separately.
Posted 1/28/16

Morbidhanson wrote:


lunarxx wrote:

4 questions:

1.)Do you believe in it?

2.)what do you see a person must do in accordance to what they've done?

3)what circumstances can it happen?

4) and in which cases it cannot happen?



My turn: I think it depends on context and goes on a case by case basis, some feel that everyone can redeem themselves or be redeemed, others like me say it depends. What are your views on the subject?


1. I suppose it's possible. I don't believe in it, though.

2. It depends on the weight of the transgression, the sincerity of the act of atonement, and the burden of the act on the transgressor seeking redemption.

3. I think redemption isn't really up to the wrongdoer, it's up to the one that was wronged. Without forgiveness, there is no redemption. An act of atonement after the fact doesn't change the fact that a wrongdoing occurred. It's up to the wronged to accept the act of atonement as sufficient and move on. I think redemption almost entirely depends on forgiveness. There must also be a meaningful act of atonement.

4. The more severe and irreversible a wrongdoing is, the less likely it is that one can be redeemed from it, since those wronged will be less likely or willing to forgive.

There are such things as stupid, unreasonable grudges, but I still think redemption is not up the the one who did something wrong to begin with, for that particular act. You can have people doing increasingly terrible things to one another, but each act should be isolated and dealt with separately.




I'm not sure what I believe, I never said I had a personal stake, was only curious about the belief itself. In theory, you're assuming it in a social context instead of a personal one, whereas the self may be the only party involved. In some cases a person wishes to forgive themself, the world be damned. Think about it, its possible one can be redeemed in their heart and be unforgiven.
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Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

lunarxx wrote:

I'm not sure what I believe, I never said I had a personal stake, was only curious about the belief itself. In theory, you're assuming it in a social context instead of a personal one, whereas the self may be the only party involved. In some cases a person wishes to forgive themself, the world be damned. Think about it, its possible one can be redeemed in their heart and be unforgiven.


That sounds more like guilt and a craving for freedom from feeling that guilt.

All the acts of atonement in the world won't mean anything in that case unless you believe that they meaningfully address your guilt. I know people who did a lot of good deeds after they did something awful, but they keep thinking about what they did and they never get over it. Some people can feel fine after seriously hurting people and doing good things to "make up for it." Others never get over it and it haunts them forever.

I think that perceiving that you've been forgiven makes it more likely you'll get over it. The problem is that you can't lie to yourself, so if you tell yourself you've forgiven yourself, and you keep thinking about it, there's a shadow of doubt that will soon grow to envelope you again. Forgiveness from an outside source seems to be more effective. I think this is why bad people can be at peace when they find religion, like people in jail who can smile after learning about God. They might not even believe in the religion, but believing they've been forgiven does a lot to address lingering guilt.
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Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

Every sin is a scar carved into your identity.
But a scar is a sign of healing.

Redemption is the process of living with those scars and moving forward.

the problem is getting past the shame.

Posted 1/28/16 , edited 1/28/16

Morbidhanson wrote:


lunarxx wrote:

I'm not sure what I believe, I never said I had a personal stake, was only curious about the belief itself. In theory, you're assuming it in a social context instead of a personal one, whereas the self may be the only party involved. In some cases a person wishes to forgive themself, the world be damned. Think about it, its possible one can be redeemed in their heart and be unforgiven.


That sounds more like guilt and a craving for freedom from feeling that guilt.

All the acts of atonement in the world won't mean anything in that case unless you believe that they meaningfully address your guilt. I know people who did a lot of good deeds after they did something awful, but they keep thinking about what they did and they never get over it. Some people can feel fine after seriously hurting people and doing good things to "make up for it." Others never get over it and it haunts them forever.

I think that perceiving that you've been forgiven makes it more likely you'll get over it. The problem is that you can't lie to yourself, so if you tell yourself you've forgiven yourself, and you keep thinking about it, there's a shadow of doubt that will soon grow to envelope you again.


Like I said I have no personal feelings on the matter. I have nothing I feel guilty about. I'm only curious as to what others think and I find this to be an interesting topic, nothing more. Thank you for your feedback.
Posted 1/28/16

HighProfile wrote:


Every sin is a scar carved into your identity.
But a scar is a sign of healing.

Redemption is the process of living with those scars and moving forward.

the problem is getting past the shame.



That's beautiful, thank you. ^^
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Posted 1/28/16
I question whether or not redemption is a right for everybody. I think it depends on what happened. For lack of a less extreme example, let's say you were babysitting someone's child and, to make it stop crying, you decided to feed the baby alcohol and pills, which subsequently killed the baby, then you lied about how the baby died. Then over a decade later it's eating away inside of you and you want redemption.
Since I'm not a parent, I'm still of the opinion that "forgiveness is a choice". If the parent who entrusted the babysitter can't forgive, that's understandable. It seems like the only way the babysitter will be redeemed is in the Afterlife. Until then, the babysitter will continue to be haunted by his/her actions until death.


HighProfile wrote:
Every sin is a scar carved into your identity.
But a scar is a sign of healing.

Redemption is the process of living with those scars and moving forward.

the problem is getting past the shame.

This is a good interpretation.
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Posted 1/28/16
1. Yes I believe in redemption

2. As a competitor, when I used to play basketball and baseball,
I find it hard to take a loss. That's why it's a must to get back
and prove yourself. Train hard , then work hard

3. Redemption can happen anywhere,anything. For example, in
a game of basketball or baseball. Teams lose and they must
get back at the opposing team. In addition, redemption
happens the family as well. The competition on who is the best
siblings in grades.

4. Redemption can't happen if you represent the law.
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Posted 1/28/16

Gross1985 wrote:

I question whether or not redemption is a right for everybody. I think it depends on what happened. For lack of a less extreme example, let's say you were babysitting someone's child and, to make it stop crying, you decided to feed the baby alcohol and pills, which subsequently killed the baby, then you lied about how the baby died. Then over a decade later it's eating away inside of you and you want redemption.
Since I'm not a parent, I'm still of the opinion that "forgiveness is a choice". If the parent who entrusted the babysitter can't forgive, that's understandable. It seems like the only way the babysitter will be redeemed is in the Afterlife. Until then, the babysitter will continue to be haunted by his/her actions until death.


HighProfile wrote:
Every sin is a scar carved into your identity.
But a scar is a sign of healing.

Redemption is the process of living with those scars and moving forward.

the problem is getting past the shame.

This is a good interpretation.


I guess it is similar then...I have had exchanges that ended years and years ago with someone wronging me, and until they make the step to contact me again.. Things will never progress beyond that point. They can cure cancer in the meantime, but no one can redeem themselves without facing their specific demon. While I really can't care enough to be angry about such things, that shadow is cast upon all future exchanges and endeavors until addressed.
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Posted 1/28/16
1.)Do you believe in it?
Yes, I have my own take on it.

2.)what do you see a person must do in accordance to what they've done?
Learn the error of their deed. Work to change themselves for the better. Possibly suffer from the same kind of ill effects.

3)what circumstances can it happen?
Some people seem to present themselves more respectfully after their first ban.
There's always opportunity. Though the time and circumstance involved might be greater than one expects, even going beyond one's current life. Forgiveness is a great start, but unnecessary. Nothing can be undone. Ultimately it lies on the transgressor to reach a point of personal understanding and change.

4) and in which cases it cannot happen?
When a person rejects atonement or breech of morality entirely. Someone that defiantly takes their own road is bound to deal with hardships whether of a moral nature or not. The path of atonement is always waiting, but not always available and never forced.
Posted 1/28/16

HighProfile wrote:


Gross1985 wrote:

I question whether or not redemption is a right for everybody. I think it depends on what happened. For lack of a less extreme example, let's say you were babysitting someone's child and, to make it stop crying, you decided to feed the baby alcohol and pills, which subsequently killed the baby, then you lied about how the baby died. Then over a decade later it's eating away inside of you and you want redemption.
Since I'm not a parent, I'm still of the opinion that "forgiveness is a choice". If the parent who entrusted the babysitter can't forgive, that's understandable. It seems like the only way the babysitter will be redeemed is in the Afterlife. Until then, the babysitter will continue to be haunted by his/her actions until death.


HighProfile wrote:
Every sin is a scar carved into your identity.
But a scar is a sign of healing.

Redemption is the process of living with those scars and moving forward.

the problem is getting past the shame.

This is a good interpretation.


I guess it is similar then...I have had exchanges that ended years and years ago with someone wronging me, and until they make the step to contact me again.. Things will never progress beyond that point. They can cure cancer in the meantime, but no one can redeem themselves without facing their specific demon. While I really can't care enough to be angry about such things, that shadow is cast upon all future exchanges and endeavors until addressed.


You had it written well until this. If you can't forgive others, you yourself will never be forgiven. Hate is an awful thing to carry around.
Posted 1/28/16

Shenseiken wrote:

1.)Do you believe in it?
Yes, I have my own take on it.

2.)what do you see a person must do in accordance to what they've done?
Learn the error of their deed. Work to change themselves for the better. Possibly suffer from the same kind of ill effects.

3)what circumstances can it happen?
Some people seem to present themselves more respectfully after their first ban.
There's always opportunity. Though the time and circumstance involved might be greater than one expects, even going beyond one's current life. Forgiveness is a great start, but unnecessary. Nothing can be undone. Ultimately it lies on the transgressor to reach a point of personal understanding and change.

4) and in which cases it cannot happen?
When a person rejects atonement or breech of morality entirely. Someone that defiantly takes their own road is bound to deal with hardships whether of a moral nature or not. The path of atonement is always waiting, but not always available and never forced.


What is it with you people taking swipes at me making this shit personal, you're all a bunch of little bitches! Like hell I respect you! Well, TBH I don't disagree with your post. I've been thinkng of the whole Star Wars thing tbh.
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Posted 1/28/16
Well, looks like this one took a serious nosedive. Closed.
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