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Post Reply What are people's biggest objection(s) to Jesus/Christianity/church?
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/7/16

RenegadeVictim wrote:

But he's all-knowing and could fix all the problems at once.


He also knew that Lucifer would rebelled against him.

We have to do thing our self without needing God help all of the time. Our lifetime is a mere second to God. If God fix all the problems for us and we wouldn't have mix emotions Joy, sadness, Anger, Jealously, and all others. The World is set as it is.. Problems could be created by us Human, or Mother nature (Like Tornado, Hurricane, EarthQuakes and others). Beside God is with us all of the time.. But not using magic to fix house instantly destroyed by Tornado! XD

We help each others (Humans)
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Posted 2/2/16

UnRavel1 wrote: but here is proof that you can be Christian and watch anime. :D
but to think that religion itself would have anything to do with anime is quite mind-boggling.. like anything its "just" art/media that creates characters becoming "real".

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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

dotsforlife wrote:


kinga750 wrote:

I don't believe in a god because there is no reason I should. Simply, there is no benefit for me. I don't believe in an afterlife, and I'm not interested in following rules written down by dead men thousands of years ago.

For the big questions, I turn to science. I know there is much still unexplained, but I'm OK with that. I don't feel the need to fill in the gaps with imagination and mythology.

Even if the Christian religion was proven correct, I would have a very hard time worshiping their god. The fundamentals of the belief system disagree with me; the morality spelled out in the Bible is not my morality. I'm also fiercely independent and can not tolerate the idea of being subservient to anything.


I found the highlighted text interesting. Do you not find immortality and having a perfect life in heaven a benefit? This is something I have wondered for those who are either on the fence about the issue or simply against it all together.

It's basically like this...

You have 2 people. One believes and follows God while the other doesn't.

Let's say the one who follows/believes turns out to be right. Okay, he goes to heaven and things happen as told in the Bible. The other guy ends up in Hell for a not so pleasant eternity. I'd say it's obvious which outcome is better for this.

On the other hand, let's say the one who is against God or doesn't believe turns out to be right. Okay, well he dies and that's basically the end of it. The other guy who believes in God ends up dead all the same. The outcome is he is wrong but that's it. He's just wrong.

Now, I'm not a gambling man, and I do tend to side with science/logic on most things, but the above is the reason why I say "I see no reason not to" whenever I speak on these topics.

Your thoughts?


I already said I don't believe in an afterlife. I think that should answer this line of questioning sufficiently.

I'll humor the argument though. Are you saying I should worship god "just in case"? Should I also start wearing a tin-foil hat just in case the government is controlling my mind with radio waves? After all, what do I have to lose? What reason not to? For starters: pride and common sense. I will not live in fear, particularly of something that has no basis in reality.

I've also mentioned that even if I knew your god existed, I would still be strongly tempted to choose hell over being strong-armed into worshiping a manipulative god who has given me two options: obey or burn in hell forever. Doesn't matter how many magic do-overs Jesus gives me, or how much he "loves" me. My heart will never be in it. I'm just stubborn like that. I am no lamb.

I respect your right to believe anything you want but you will not change my mind on this.
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Posted 2/2/16

dotsforlife wrote:

It's basically like this...

You have 2 people. One believes and follows God while the other doesn't.

Let's say the one who follows/believes turns out to be right. Okay, he goes to heaven and things happen as told in the Bible. The other guy ends up in Hell for a not so pleasant eternity. I'd say it's obvious which outcome is better for this.

On the other hand, let's say the one who is against God or doesn't believe turns out to be right. Okay, well he dies and that's basically the end of it. The other guy who believes in God ends up dead all the same. The outcome is he is wrong but that's it. He's just wrong.

Now, I'm not a gambling man, and I do tend to side with science/logic on most things, but the above is the reason why I say "I see no reason not to" whenever I speak on these topics.

Your thoughts?

No, you have it backwards mate...

Let's say there actually did exist some sort of supernatural power, with powers we usually associate with a deity, how would you figure out your version is the right one from the thousands upon thousands of such beliefs?

Because, let's face it, if something happened and you found yourselves at the gates of afterlife, and the choice was between being a worshiper of a false god, or staying neutral, when presenting yourself to the gatekeeper, wouldn't the second option be hell of a lot safer?

Personally, I see no prove one way or another any such entity exists. Certainly, the rituals conducted and the old church buildings often are a fascinating and curious part of our cultural heritage and traditions. But that's also all they are to me, and I see no point assigning some otherworldly governing power to them...
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Posted 2/2/16
Religion in general has never made sense to me. Its intangible. I can't test it. I can't use a mathematical formula to verify it. There isn't anything beyond circumstantial evidence outside of the prime source material that corroborates what the book is saying. Indeed, everything outside of the holy book seems to disprove it.

Christianity, well the Abrahamic religions in general, seem especially unappealing to me. They based on belief and illogic based in turn on a history book written as a political propaganda piece about 2800 years ago. Which was also probably based on the writings of Zoroaster, an Afghan-Iranian writer from around 1500 BC. In essence, they are a johnny-come-lately to the religion party. If there was a god, I doubt he would have waited so long since humanity first evolved to reveal his presence. If so, and if belief in him is required to get the Good End, pretty dick move there.

One could then make an argument about certain eastern religions or shamanistic/animistic/polytheistic beliefs, but the former have similarly short lifespans compared to human existence. The latter are haphazardly codified at best and more likely complete whimsy and feeling.

While one could say that science requires belief, I would ask a belief in what? It is based in things I can prove. I can prove that objects fall at a predictable rate. I can prove that light is broken in a spectrum. I can prove matter is made of atoms which are in turn made of subatomic particles. I can prove that the background temperature of the universe is consistent with a Big Bang. While not everything has been explained and there would be a measure of faith that our explanations are correct with the foundations of knowledge being so readily provable the fine details seem to be just a matter of time before they are explained.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16
It's unsound archaeologically. Evidence of Judaism (and thus Christianity) being derived from a pantheon for one. For two, the OT has a few discrepancies in its location and time for certain events. I love the culture, architecture, etc., but that doesn't mean God himself is real.

Not just a quarrel with Christianity, but there's no proof of any god. I'm not antitheist--I don't hate god. I'm just atheist. If hard evidence of a god manifested itself, I'd be willing to accept it in a heartbeat like all hard evidence.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

Gracias2 wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

It's basically like this...

You have 2 people. One believes and follows God while the other doesn't.

Let's say the one who follows/believes turns out to be right. Okay, he goes to heaven and things happen as told in the Bible. The other guy ends up in Hell for a not so pleasant eternity. I'd say it's obvious which outcome is better for this.

On the other hand, let's say the one who is against God or doesn't believe turns out to be right. Okay, well he dies and that's basically the end of it. The other guy who believes in God ends up dead all the same. The outcome is he is wrong but that's it. He's just wrong.

Now, I'm not a gambling man, and I do tend to side with science/logic on most things, but the above is the reason why I say "I see no reason not to" whenever I speak on these topics.

Your thoughts?

No, you have it backwards mate...

Let's say there actually did exist some sort of supernatural power, with powers we usually associate with a deity, how would you figure out your version is the right one from the thousands upon thousands of such beliefs?

Because, let's face it, if something happened and you found yourselves at the gates of afterlife, and the choice was between being a worshiper of a false god, or staying neutral, when presenting yourself to the gatekeeper, wouldn't the second option be hell of a lot safer?

Personally, I see no prove one way or another any such entity exists. Certainly, the rituals conducted and the old church buildings often are a fascinating and curious part of our cultural heritage and traditions. But that's also all they are to me, and I see no point assigning some otherworldly governing power to them...


You're misunderstanding the situation, so I'll point out that I gave that scenario pertaining to him in regards to the highlighted text I quoted from him. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with who is right or wrong, since no one will know for sure. I simply asked what his thoughts on it were to better understand his point of view.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

kinga750

I already said I don't believe in an afterlife. I think that should answer this line of questioning sufficiently.

I'll humor the argument though. Are you saying I should worship god "just in case"? Should I also start wearing a tin-foil hat just in case the government is controlling my mind with radio waves? After all, what do I have to lose? What reason not to? For starters: pride and common sense. I will not live in fear, particularly of something that has no basis in reality.

I've also mentioned that even if I knew your god existed, I would still be strongly tempted to choose hell over being strong-armed into worshiping a manipulative god who has given me two options: obey or burn in hell forever. Doesn't matter how many magic do-overs Jesus gives me, or how much he "loves" me. My heart will never be in it. I'm just stubborn like that. I am no lamb.

I respect your right to believe anything you want but you will not change my mind on this.


Rather crude for an answer but thanks nonetheless. I'm not trying to sway your opinion. Just wanting to know your reasoning behind it is all. I have an idea of it now.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

dotsforlife wrote:



Basically, you can read a Mark Twain book like "The Mysterious Stranger" or "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" (Twain was the Lewis Black of his day), and realize that uninformed "iconoclastic" atheist cliche's haven't really changed in the last hundred and fifty years. HUNDRED. AND FIFTY. YEARS. We're talking riverboats, horse buggies, kids with hoops, and big bicycles.

- "The medieval church burned witches and caused the Crusades, and thought the Devil was hiding behind every bush!"
- "Church people are either tight-collared prigs who don't have fun, or hypocrites who hide their liquor bottles!"
- "Church people will spend all their time lecturing you as to how evil it is to have fun!"
- "Do church people really think we all descended from a nudist couple eating apples?"
- "Must be tough being an angel, listening to all that harp music and having to kiss up to the Boss all day! If only all the bad people are in Hell, it must be a swingin' place!"

Considering that these were considered shocking pokes at society back when Rutherford B. Hayes was president, and little old ladies waved paper fans in church because air conditioning hadn't been invented yet, has it not occurred to most modern atheists to, well, UPDATE the jokes a tad, as some of the material might not be altogether fresh, or that they might not be the first uninformed jackasses on planet Earth to come up with them?


descloud wrote:

I'll state a handful of reasons why people don't follow it.



(And then of course, those old favorites "New Testament? What's that? Isn't the book just a bunch of wars and Begats, and Lot sleeping with his daughters 'n stuff?", and "Huh? I don't get it! So there must be nothin' to get! "


kinga750 wrote:I've also mentioned that even if I knew your god existed, I would still be strongly tempted to choose hell over being strong-armed into worshiping a manipulative god who has given me two options: obey or burn in hell forever. Doesn't matter how many magic do-overs Jesus gives me, or how much he "loves" me. My heart will never be in it. I'm just stubborn like that. I am no lamb.


"Doesn't matter?" Like, the second half of the book just told you the skewed interpretation you grew up with for your entire childhood was wrong, and it "doesn't matter"?

Yes, as I recall from my copy of Webster's, that would be the definition of "Stubborn". Apparently, some jackasses DO survive in the desert.
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Posted 2/2/16

Ejanss

Basically, you can read a Mark Twain book like "The Mysterious Stranger" or "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" (Twain was the Lewis Black of his day), and realize that uninformed "iconoclastic" atheist cliche's haven't really changed in the last hundred and fifty years. HUNDRED. AND FIFTY. YEARS. We're talking riverboats, horse buggies, kids with hoops, and big bicycles.


I haven't read the first book you mentioned. Going to have to add that to my ever growing list of titles to read. I need more free time.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

dotsforlife wrote:
Rather crude for an answer but thanks nonetheless. I'm not trying to sway your opinion. Just wanting to know your reasoning behind it is all. I have an idea of it now.


Sorry if it sounds crude, it's hard for me to talk about religion without coming off that way. I really have very little patience for the subject, and usually avoid it at all costs. Don't know what compelled me to respond to this thread but as usual discussing religion has left me unsatisfied.
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16
I do not generally disapprove of the idea that there may be some form of supernatural being (or a whole race of them) that could be considered god(s). However the notion that any human has even the slightest idea of who they are is weird to me.
There are a bazillion religions to chose from. Often they are completely incompatible to each other.
There is no indication which one is correct at all. They are also quite often way too "human centric" to me.
I do not believe earth is a "special place", apart from the fact it is one of the few planets (the only known to us) that has developed life. That makes it special in a way, but I doubt it is the center of the creation.

I think I understand why religions have developed though. You ask yourself these questions:
Why am I here?
Why does the Universe exist?
Is there any point in any of this?
Is there an afterlife?

And then somebody comes along, tells you an explanation they made up and asks you to be a paying believer. Voila religion has developed.

Well I totally wonder about those questions as well. I however like more philosophical or scientific answers better.
Personally my favorite to explain why _this_ universe exists it the Simulation Theory. Cool stuff about it here: http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html
Quick summary: A logical argument is made that there is a chance we're all living inside a simulation that some crazy high developed species build to research the development of the universe by experimentation. It's also very feasible that it isn't just one simulation. More like a chain of simulations. Somewhere up the chain somebody build a simulation inside which life developed so far that they build a simulation inside a simulation, etc pp.
Very appealing to me. More than believing in a book that to me is just filled with half true fantasy stories.

Either way I do not believe there is any need to act in a specific way because of such believe. The only thing that should us cause to change the way we act is science.
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Posted 2/2/16

kinga750 wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:
Rather crude for an answer but thanks nonetheless. I'm not trying to sway your opinion. Just wanting to know your reasoning behind it is all. I have an idea of it now.


Sorry if it sounds crude, it's hard for me to talk about religion without coming off that way. I really have very little patience for the subject, and usually avoid it at all costs. Don't know what compelled me to respond to this thread but as usual it has left me unsatisfied.


All good. I can read between the lines and pick up what I need lol. That was just the first time I'd seen someone say that so I figured I'd ask.
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Posted 2/2/16



nature lol.
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Posted 2/2/16
I have no objections.
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