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Post Reply What are people's biggest objection(s) to Jesus/Christianity/church?
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

Drewkun88 wrote:


dotsforlife

I would say no based on what the Bible says about God giving us free will. Plus it is written that we were practically sinless before the fall of man.

Though that could be argued against by saying man was created in Gods image, so what does that say about us in the first place?

Take your pick.


I personally don't see a contradiction. I believe 1) that we were and still are created in the image of God and that we were sinless before we chose to disobey God of our own free will; 2) that our desire for relationship with other people stems from the fact that God created us to be in relationship with Him; 3) that we broke our relationship with God when we chose to leave Him and go our own way; and 4) that Jesus died to pay the penalty of death that we deserved (Romans 6:23, 5:8) in order to make it possible for us to be reconciled to God, but now it is up to each of us to accept that free gift.

By way of analogy, I can do my bit and buy you a birthday gift, but it won't mean anything if you don't accept the gift from me.


The contradiction could be this: God is all knowing correct? Regardless of our free will, he already knows the choices we will make and our futures. That said, is it not odd to create mankind already knowing it will fail from the start? Knowing that, I'll ask again. What does that say about us in the first place?

While I do believe in the existence of God (because once again, I see no reason not to) I certainly don't agree or believe everything written in the Bible. Especially when it seems highly unlikely to not have been tampered with over such a long period of time while being written after events. I'll gladly acknowledge that plenty of good can be learned from the Bible. It certainly wouldn't hurt people to practice some of the finer points it makes in the New Testament.
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Posted 2/2/16

KnightOfZero1991 wrote:


Drewkun88 wrote:

I personally don't see a contradiction. I believe 1) that we were and still are created in the image of God and that we were sinless before we chose to disobey God of our own free will; 2) that our desire for relationship with other people stems from the fact that God created us to be in relationship with Him; 3) that we broke our relationship with God when we chose to leave Him and go our own way; and 4) that Jesus died to pay the penalty of death that we deserved (Romans 6:23, 5:8) in order to make it possible for us to be reconciled to God, but now it is up to each of us to accept that free gift.

By way of analogy, I can do my bit and buy you a birthday gift, but it won't mean anything if you don't accept the gift from me.


I'm agnostic myself, so while I believe a god is likely to exist, being unable to comprehend most of this world, just going and saying 'this god must be the real one,' i,e the Christian god, isn't an easy thing to do.

Anyways.. that post is why people have a hard time following Christianity.

>god created us
>god gave us free will
>god got mad that we didn't instantly follow him
>god thought we deserved to die
>instead, jesus, who is also god via the trinity decided to go and die
>somehow god killing himself amounts to us reconciling with him.

So, while I haven't made my case on who or what I believe to be god, it's very easy to say why people are a little iffy about that whole Christianity thing.. on top of the absurd corruption and greed of the christian church which could be helping people in despair from dying.


I think we're missing a step, but I generally agree with what you're saying. I would argue that it's more like this:
>God created us
>God gave us free will and gave us one command, which was not to eat the fruit of a certain tree
>We disobeyed God by eating that fruit, thus breaking our perfect harmony with God and introducing sin, i.e. discord
>Sin, or 'discord', led to things like corruption and death
>God got mad but rather than kill us on the spot, chose instead of banish us from His presence in the Garden of Eden
>God implements a plan to restore the relationship we previously had with Him
>Jesus, as someone who was sinless and therefore not under the same penalty as us, who is also God via the Trinity decided to go and die in our place
>Jesus' death and supposed resurrection amounts to us being able to reconcile with Him...if we so choose
Humms 
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16
No offence, this is what I believe. You believe in God because you can't think for yourself, you believe in guidance from above instead of your own intuition. I don't believe in God because I think about facts and reality, and not about imagination and stories, but we have our own beliefs and opinions

Church is simply having a group of people give money to the actual church, there is no set price on donations so that is how priests or other religious figures make their money on top of paying to keep the church active. A time where we listen to stories and pray, repent and go on our merry way. So church is basically a money pit for the foolish and the weak who are being slaved to a comedy act.

Christianity is a way of life, it is not superior to any other life choice, it is simply a way of life that one chooses to live by. Even speaking out to others about your life choice is to be ignored by anyone who chooses not to listen, if others speak against it, it is simply because of what their words mean to the person in question, and a Christian has no validation to speak against anyone. You call us sinners, I have rights to go about my words with absolution without your consent.

This is the way of things; not only in my mind, but it is what we know.
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Posted 2/2/16
this is a followup from what i posted earlier, i forgot to mention it. When i was younger different churches of different faiths had a practice, the ministers would go to the houses of their congregation members, hear the prayers of every person in the house, talk to them, pray with them, serve communion, or even help around their house with minor or major chores for a short while.

Back then the churches were huge, hundreds of people went to them in our local towns...

This was 22+ years ago when i was a kid. This practice died out in the 90s ... which makes me want to say that the Cristian church was in its prime in the 70's and 80's or even before then
Posted 2/2/16
> God is omnipotent; God is all powerful; God can do anything
> God is omniscient; God knows everything; everything is a part of God's divine plan
> God's first creation, first child, the first to be included into God's divine plan, is Lucifer
> God waits for millions of years, then he creates dinosaurs
> God kills the dinosaurs, millions of years later
> God waits for millions of years, again, then he creates humans
> God doesn't want humans to have free will
> God's son, Lucifer, "manipulates" humans into gaining free will
> God punishes his son with eternal agony for carrying out God's plan as God planned it
> God punishes humans for carrying out God's divine plan
> God makes a man build something out of wood that is as big as Norway in size, with three other family members
> God puts two of everything in existence on something the size of Norway, and then he butchers the rest in existence
> God forces all living things to commit incest, for centuries, to increase the population
> God's divine plan is to enslave the Jews
> God's divine plan is to release several plagues upon an entire population, including babies--- to free the Jews
> God rapes a woman
> God plans for his bastard child to become a street performer
> God plans for people to not be amused by his son's street performance
> God plans to have his son tortured and executed
> God resurrects his son, to have his son tortured and executed some more
> God then proceeds to give AIDS to a babies in Africa
> God loves you--- that's why you're going to hell

Something like that?
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16
Simply put; I don't believe in Yahwe. At the end of the day, I can't honestly say that I have faith. I take some issue with inconsistency and stances in the religion, but that is minor in comparison to what I initially mentioned.
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Posted 2/2/16
The fact that it was used to justify slavery, the inquisition and intolerance of those who don't wish to follow their dogma.
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Posted 2/2/16
if there is a god,- I do believe in him and I am Christian- then he is despicable, why do people have to suffer, good people and the bad nothing happens to, why did I have to be raped at 3 and molested at 8 11 and 19? why did those people get away with it, why was my father allowed to have more children, why was I the one punished? why are good people punished? I have been told "before you came to earth, in heaven god thought you had a strong soul to be able to endure, that is why you were born with autism and other things" . but why? why do good people have to be born with shit like this? a group of religious people surrounded my mother at work and chanted around her, saying I was born like this because of my sins and her sins
It is bullshit
I believe in god, but like I said, he doesn't do anything for us
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Posted 2/2/16
Well, I'm culturally speaking a Hindu, meaning I observe certain Hindu rituals at certain times of the year. As for actually believing in God, I'm...ambivalent. I go from agnostic atheist one day to agnostic theist or agnostic deist the next.

But what I don't believe in is organized religion. I don't believe in the Bible, Quran, or even my own religious scriptures beyond "this fiction is weiiiird!"

I've read parts of the Bible. The Ramayana and Mahabharata were part of my school curriculum. I could never take any of them seriously as guides to the truth, and I suppose I never shall.

As for why I reject organized religion, many new atheists should be able to give a good explanation. You know, your scripture is contradictory, open to abuse by unscrupulous assholes, your God doesn't come across as a very noble being, scientific evidence is rapidly making many of your legends flat-out implausible, etc etc.

If you seriously believe the legends of your own scripture over scientific evidence, I think you're wrong. If you believe that religion is needed to fill in the gaps of your understanding of this world, then I'm with you, but as Christopher Hitchens said, "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." And if you believe in the afterlife and want to be rewarded for living a virtuous life in this world, I couldn't agree more with you, but if your God comes across as a megalomaniacal tyrant to me, sorry but I'm out.

And lastly, I believe if God does exist, He really needs to have some tolerance for nonbelievers if He's really a good guy. If not, humanity has been fucked from the very beginning.
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Posted 2/2/16
Christianity--in in any form--is in no way favored by known historical evidence. Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament tell accurate history for the most part. What little contemporary evidence we have from around the time of Jesus is of very poor quality and does nothing to support the extraordinary claims of miracles and huge happenings mentioned in the Bible. Given that the history told by the Bible is so inaccurate (seriously, go read some books on ancient history or watch even a passable documentary without a religious bent and be prepared to be astonished), why should its extraordinary claims be taken seriously, let alone be allowed to form the basis of our worldview?

Setting aside for a moment how historically inaccurate the Bible is, consider how bizarre Christian theology actually is. Humans are imperfect because the first humans long ago ate from a magic fruit tree (that God left in his magic garden) at the behest of a talking snake. Even if you choose not to take that story from the Book of Genesis literally, you still must accept that somehow all human are sinful or the sacrifice of Jesus makes sense. How can you or I be responsible for the actions of those who came before us? The concept of original sin is nonsense. And so, for that matter, is the idea of being redeemed by Jesus. If you read the Bible the way most Christians do, the price for humanity's sinful behavior (in practical terms, God could fix "sinful" tendencies at any time with genetic engineering or some other direct intervention) was paid when God sacrificed himself to himself to quell his own anger. I mean, what? And if you happen to be a rare breed of Christian that has a different view of the Trinity where God and Jesus aren't somehow the same thing (together with the very mysterious and ill-defined Holy Spirit), the story makes more sense, but not that much more.

Finally, consider the world we live in. What happens in the real world doesn't mesh well at all with the concept of their being a loving, all powerful God who would like a personal relationship with us. Studies have failed to show any benefit from intercessory prayer. Diseases that are "cured" by prayer either have their ups and downs or can go away on their own or with treatment. Not even the most pious or pitiable person ever grows back a missing limb. When people pray to God for answers to questions, everyone seems to get different answers (which often, strangely enough, seem to favor their own existing points of view), even when the questions are universal. Think how many sects of Christians there are, each believing they got it right and the others got it wrong. God, apparently, cannot even be bothered to correctly communicate his own message.

Some people like to say that "God works in mysterious ways", or that if he visibly acted in the world, there would be no need for faith, and the Bible tell us faith is a virtue. But consider: how is the world we live in any different than the world would be without a God at all? When you can't tell difference between the two, the theology makes no sense, and history in no way supports what Christians hear every Sunday in church, I can frankly see no reason why any of it should be believed. I care about what is actually true, not what I want to believe is true.
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Posted 2/2/16
For me, my biggest objection against Christianity is the blatant hypocrisy and willful ignorance of some christians when it comes to the Bible. They pick and choose what rules they want to follow then cry oppression or political correctness when someone calls them out on their BS.
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Posted 2/2/16

Hrafna wrote:


> God makes a man build something out of wood that is as big as Norway in size, with three other family members
> God puts two of everything in existence on something the size of Norway, and then he butchers the rest in existence




just for the sake of accuracy, according the measurements stated in the bible Noah's ark was about twice the size of a football field, not the size of Norway. It was mostly 2 of every animal, but there were some exceptions, such as 7 pairs of sheep.
Posted 2/2/16
I have no objections to God
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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/7/16

UnRavel1 wrote:

Same here, man. The culture shock can alienate things they don't understand or know fully about, especially if you live in the Bible Belt like me. Sometimes you may feel isolated, but here is proof that you can be Christian and watch anime. :D



That remind me, have you seen Anime about main character become Demon, and they say that God is Evil.. I found the name of it I believed its "Demon Lord Dante" He became Demon and had to recuse Lucifer from two powerful Guardian Angels.. The reason he had to recuse Lucifer is because Lucifer can summon minor Demons to join him in war against God, When God realized this he took all Ball of Light from People, and found one Girl who happen to be sister of Dante the Main character, she is chosen by God.

The thing is this Anime actually blow my mind (twisted my head all around haha) Because I was growing up That God is the light and are Good, while Satan is darkness and Evil. And this Anime is saying the oppsite haha! o_O so its was weird.


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Posted 2/2/16 , edited 2/2/16

redokami wrote:

if there is a god,- I do believe in him and I am Christian- then he is despicable, why do people have to suffer, good people and the bad nothing happens to, why did I have to be raped at 3 and molested at 8 11 and 19? why did those people get away with it, why was my father allowed to have more children, why was I the one punished? why are good people punished? I have been told "before you came to earth, in heaven god thought you had a strong soul to be able to endure, that is why you were born with autism and other things" . but why? why do good people have to be born with shit like this? a group of religious people surrounded my mother at work and chanted around her, saying I was born like this because of my sins and her sins
It is bullshit
I believe in god, but like I said, he doesn't do anything for us


Once you enter Kingdom of Heaven, you won't suffer anymore. We all have suffer, its to prepared us for ahead of time.. We're currently in Spiritually War.. Arch Angel Michael and Army of Angel are fighting against the Army of Darkness.. Satan and his Army.

They are Fighting for our soul. Don't let the Devil and Demons Despair you, by putting you through all those thing you have suffer and that is unfair, Guess what it doesn't end there.. We will continue to suffer and perhaps we may experience Joy in moment of our life.



Be Strong and be Positive.. Don't let Demons to break your Spirit.. Keep your head up high and smile with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and his Father God.

Remembered other people have suffer far worse than we have, like in Africa there billions of starving..



Pray for them, Pray for us.. Believe me or not.. I used to laugh at people who are into Bible/Christian. I was angry all of the time and unhappy all of the time.. I felt its not Fair why my life turned like this? So I let go the negative feeling and embrace Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and I never felt better in my whole life.. Its like the Whole Weight on my shoulder have been Lifted.

Don't let the bad people change for who you are, Sadly they were once good people till they throw away their Moral.. Once they open their heart they will eventually changed back and realized the error of their life and shed tears.


Edit:
Hmm, My Mother told me that God can only give us (testing) only the one we can handle.
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