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Post Reply This may be an unpopular opinion -harems are becoming an overused trope in anime/manga
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Posted 2/8/16

ComboChrist wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

Usually I'm not a fan of harems (I certainly wouldn't want to have one unless it's full of yanderes ) but I find them much more tolerable if the MC isn't dense as fuck...


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Oh now you've gone and done it...


Heresy. How could you pass on that? T___T


Because yandere is love. Yandere is life.

(until they find out about the others...)
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

Nasirei wrote:


underlock wrote:


Nasirei wrote:

Oh lol, who isn't really watching Erased. It's super good and on top of it it doesn't have excruciating fanservice.


Too busy watching tentacle hentai. Is it good?


Tentacle hentai? What about [inappropriate remark deleted] watching instead a super twisting time-travelling thriller.


What about not derailing a thread with vulgar insinuations about another user, that then turns into a lengthy lewd conversation unrelated to the thread topic?

I've deleted or edited several of the remarks from both of you. Please don't continue posting in this manner.



Sorry folks, my clean up of some off-topic and otherwise inappropriate banter means we ended up with an invisible last page. Keep posting and we'll catch up to it soon.

Here's the link if you want to see what's currently there:

/forumtopic-939127/this-may-be-an-unpopular-opinion-harems-are-becoming-an-overused-trope-in-animemanga?pg=4 (tjhis is actually page 5; urls start with page 0).
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

lorreen wrote:
What about not derailing a thread with vulgar insinuations about another user, that then turns into a lengthy lewd conversation unrelated to the thread topic?

I've deleted or edited several of the remarks from both of you. Please don't continue posting in this manner.



Sorry folks, my clean up of some off-topic and otherwise inappropriate banter means we ended up with an invisible last page. Keep posting and we'll catch up to it soon.

Here's the link if you want to see what's currently there:

/forumtopic-939127/this-may-be-an-unpopular-opinion-harems-are-becoming-an-overused-trope-in-animemanga?pg=4 (tjhis is actually page 5; urls start with page 0).


Ok lorreen-dono, it won't happen again
Posted 2/8/16
You can say the same about almost all anime tropes then. I personally stopped watching harems years ago, I just stopped being interested in them. Be it too much fan service and lack of good story or just bad writing or characters.
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Posted 2/8/16
On-topic attempt to get at least one of the invisible pages to display.

I like harem animes for the most part, even the ones that are a bit too tropey and dull. However, I do think they may be overused a bit. Still, I find it easy enough to avoid them when I've had enough--There really are a good number of non-harem shows that are very good. Many of the shows I'm watching this season are not harems, and one of the ones that kind of is (Snow White with the Red Hair), doesn't seem to overuse the tropes, and has a very distinct story aside from the harem aspect, and does a nice job with creating a reasonable depth of character for the "harem" members.

My very favorite shows this season are not harems at all:

ERASED
Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju
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Posted 2/8/16
Good non-harems this season: Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, ERASED, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar.
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Posted 2/8/16
I-I...was.....Ignored? Bu-bu-bu-*sniffle*bu-bu-bu-but i'm even more bored now... ( ¬_¬;)
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

VividDreamZ wrote:

The thing the makes me angry about harems is the fact that they never go anywhere, but a lot of anime forces it into a plot and most times there is no character development or progression in the harem. You are left to your own conclusions. A lot of the harems are the same scenarios poorly written.

In my opinion the original Macross between Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes and Lynn Minmei was a well written harem situaiton in my eyes. That was realistic and delivered results.


Okay, let's define our terms, since Millennial Frustration tends to warp them all out of context once a trope discussion takes place.

A Love Triangle is not a Harem--We should establish a minimum of three girls before using the H-word.
When Tenchi had Ryoko and Ayeka fighting over him, that was a Triangle. When Mihoshi, Sasami and Washuu also started acting goo-goo-eyes toward him for comic/sentimental subplot--and he was a Nice Guy to the first two and trying to flee the third--then, and only then, it was a Harem.
The chief plot point of a Love Triangle with two girls is that one of the two is eventually going to win (as it's implied Ryoko did in the third Tenchi movie), and one is going to lose, and the hero must decide whose heart to break before things get any worse, or the losing female decides to take more drastic measures.
A Harem has the male stuck with 3+ females whether he wants them or not--for reasons of apartment sharing, or "marriage contracts", or other plot convenience that didn't ask his opinion on the matter--and since the hero is under no obligation to commit to any of them, or indeed wishes he could get rid of some of them, there's no plot conflict about which he'll choose.

The word, let's remember, was first coined by Ataru Moroboshi chasing five different females on Urusei Yatsura (all of whom immediately and regularly pounded his face into the pavement, thus making it the opposite of a "harem"), not to mention any guest episode characters, and hoping that they would ALL live in his apartment. For the record, he was allowed to see what that would look like, in an alternate future, and it didn't work out.
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Posted 2/8/16
I personally hate harems because of the competitive factor between the members of the harem. I will always end up shipping some one who has actually zero chance and then I will be left in a mass of emotional pain and suffering. I am a fan of a more straight forward love story. One where Me and my ships have a chance to win...
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Posted 2/8/16
Yep, pretty much.. There's a lot of anime series with harems in. But as long as they have an actual decent plot as well then I don't mind.
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Posted 2/8/16

newbergchris wrote: One where Me and my ships have a chance to win...
ship to win?
what a great game..

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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

lorreen wrote:

On-topic attempt to get at least one of the invisible pages to display.


Also, the cleaning has caused some of my responses to go into a time-space warp, and be posted five or ten minutes before I actually typed them, according to the date/sequence.
This post, for example, was my second post after VividDreamz's, and I now see them before his post...Whoa, Doc, does this mean I have to get the DeLorean to the school prom in time?


I like harem animes for the most part, even the ones that are a bit too tropey and dull. However, I do think they may be overused a bit. Still, I find it easy enough to avoid them when I've had enough--There really are a good number of non-harem shows that are very good. Many of the shows I'm watching this season are not harems, and one of the ones that kind of is (Snow White with the Red Hair), doesn't seem to overuse the tropes, and has a very distinct story aside from the harem aspect, and does a nice job with creating a reasonable depth of character for the "harem" members.


Also, the majority of harem comedies are based on popular and well-known Date-Sim games, where the girls are easy to distinguish tropes (shy, tsundere, school-council president, etc.), who will behave in a certain pre-set manner of trope behavior, and all literally competing for the hero's affection with the risk of jealousy toward each other. And since You, the Player are the main character, adapting the games to anime gives us a hero with no particular set personality, and no specific outcome of which girl he's going to choose. After all, there's no set outcome in the game, and which relationship works out happily is up to you--There was no plot favoritism going in, so the writer doesn't have a particular goal to work for.
Love Hina was considered the first "true" harem after Tenchi (Tenchi was based on a tragic Japanese love-triangle, but Hina was based on a game), and displays more of the "true" tropes: Hard-up apartment sharing, wild unlikely trope-girls causing unusual difficulties, the hard-to-get tsundere girl being the "main" plot girl, and no end in sight.
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Posted 2/8/16
Agreed.Sick of seeing so many harem based animes in every season for anime.There are other genres and mangas that could offer so much more and yet they choose so many harem based mangas and light novels. Some harem animes are good but most are turning out to be shit because of how overused it is.
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Posted 2/8/16
I don't know but I get the feeling that harems aren't as popular in Japan as we think they are. I think they're the niche in Japan.

We need more anime shows that have a boundary.
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/10/16
I quite agree. Though the tag "harem" interest me, I don't find it as interesting as before. Harem animes usually don't tend to be good though, they mainly suffice for mediocre comedy animes.
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/10/16
The thing the makes me angry about harems is the fact that they never go anywhere, but a lot of anime forces it into a plot and most times there is no character development or progression in the harem. You are left to your own conclusions. A lot of the harems are the same scenarios poorly written.

In my opinion the original Macross between Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes and Lynn Minmei was a well written harem situaiton in my eyes. That was realistic and delivered results.

I've seen a few good harems, as of lately -- most have been as generic as they can be.
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Posted 2/8/16
If you think about it, its by far the easiest way to set up a cast for a story. Using this formula you can easily come up with a cast for any story, if you've ever thought of making a story/book give it a try and see how well it works. You have the strong willed one, the soft one, the weird one, and the childhood friend; all "school" type personalities that are usually relatable. You just change a few minor details and suddenly have character personalities with minimal effort and creativity.

The massive problem with this is that it always creates a problem with predictable endings, you're forced to conclude a harem story by selection. Or even worse, the "lets be friends" ending to harem. I'd say that's what every anti-harem enthusiast hates most.
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

Ejanss wrote:

I'll assume you're being ironic in saying "This may be a bold, shocking and revolutionary opinion for this group, but..."

But it's just part and parcel of what we normal well-adjusted westerners have to put up with, dealing with neurotic girl-phobic Japanese teens--
Who spent most of their junior/high school life separated from the girls, have not Idea One how to ask them out, and can only express their fantasies through anime series where the heroes are stuck with all the mountains coming to Mohammed, whether they want them or not. (See, that way it skips over the hard part.)

It's either this, incest-fetish, or the "Accidental marriage contract" series for non-consentual-relationship comedies, where our hero is stuck with the girl anyway, which would you rather prefer?





lilliputianliar wrote:

It's not an unpopular opinion and I don't know why you thought it would be. You're not exactly elucidating some bold, nouveau point of view. People have been saying this for years. Harems are alright. The proliferation of them doesn't really bother me at all. As long as I'm entertained, I need nothing more or less from harems.

Bold, shocking, revolutionary, and nouveau are not synonyms for unpopular. I presumed that the opinion was unpopular due to the popularity of using the trope in anime/manga. Pardon me for using logic.
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Posted 2/8/16
Sure it's a trope used often, but so is Overpowered Shonen Hero/Angsty MC with a Tragic Past/ Cute characters doing cutesypoo things


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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/8/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

I agree.


This. This I agree with
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/9/16
Being a guy who likes T&A anime . . . I think harem is way overdone....

Ten years ago . . . I cannot think I would ever say that...
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Posted 2/8/16

VividDreamZ wrote:

The thing the makes me angry about harems is the fact that they never go anywhere, but a lot of anime forces it into a plot and most times there is no character development or progression in the harem. You are left to your own conclusions. A lot of the harems are the same scenarios poorly written.

In my opinion the original Macross between Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes and Lynn Minmei was a well written harem situaiton in my eyes. That was realistic and delivered results.

I've seen a few good harems, as of lately -- most have been as generic as they can be.


This is more or less the point I was making. The only time I've found a harem sort of necessary in recent works is in the manga Sun-Ken Rock; where it is used to show exactly how much the protagonist is dedicated to not only his own love interest, but to doing the right thing in general.

Everywhere else I've seen them they've just been there to fluff the protagonist.
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Posted 2/8/16 , edited 2/9/16
Dumb generalizations are dumb generalizations

Loved "How To Raise A Boring Girlfriend"
Loved "When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace"
Loved "My Mental Choices Are Completely Ruining My School Romantic Comedy"
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Posted 2/8/16
Well if done correct, harems are pretty much a staple for any anime, but if they rush the concept and the characters are done poorly, yea it's a quick cash Cow for an easy trope, but I would like to see more dedicated story driven animes.
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Posted 2/9/16

nanikore2 wrote:

Dumb generalizations are dumb generalizations

Loved "How To Raise A Boring Girlfriend"
Loved "When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace"
Loved "My Mental Choices Are Completely Ruining My School Romantic Comedy"



gen·er·al·i·za·tion
ˌjen(ə)rələˈzāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: generalization; plural noun: generalizations; noun: generalisation; plural noun: generalisations

a general statement or concept obtained by inference from specific cases.


That was a pretty spot on generalization.
Posted 2/8/16

Happencheese wrote:

Harems are trash.


^ Yes!
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Posted 2/9/16

VividDreamZ wrote:

The thing the makes me angry about harems is the fact that they never go anywhere, but a lot of anime forces it into a plot and most times there is no character development or progression in the harem. You are left to your own conclusions. A lot of the harems are the same scenarios poorly written.

In my opinion the original Macross between Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes and Lynn Minmei was a well written harem situaiton in my eyes. That was realistic and delivered results.

I've seen a few good harems, as of lately -- most have been as generic as they can be.



"Macross" was a love triangle, not a harem.
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