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Post Reply This may be an unpopular opinion -harems are becoming an overused trope in anime/manga
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Posted 2/8/16
Harems are just love-triangle romances for men,

In an awful lot of romances for women, there'll be a girl who doesn't believe she's that good looking despite all evidence and people telling her to the contrary, and two guys fighting for her affections. One will be the husband material boy scout, and the other will be the mysterious harley riding bad boy in leather.
It's been done over and over and over again, but people, especially women love that trope and will keep consuming it.

I see little difference between them except that harems have a slightly wider variety of love interests - although most of them can be put into less than a dozen boxes.
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Posted 2/9/16
they are pretty annoying at this point

but since Japanese otaku buy more related media (models, posters, pillows) of characters from harem anime than anyother genre on average its still far more profitable on average than most other genres.
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Posted 2/9/16
People pay too much attention to genre and rely on pre-conceptions and generalizations instead of looking at everything on a case-by-case basis.


AzazelOfNexium wrote:

they are pretty annoying at this point

but since Japanese otaku buy more related media (models, posters, pillows) of characters from harem anime than anyother genre on average its still far more profitable on average than most other genres.

I think "moe" anime sells more, but the genre is ultimately irrelevant. People just have to like the characters.
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Posted 2/9/16
Some can be really funny and that is cool, you know what they are before you ever start watching. When they take a romance and turn it harem though that is just awful. Monster Musume was funny and you knew it was going to be fan service/harem galore. Ouran was a reverse harem which you don't get often but it was funny and you could see Haruhi with the different guys, I leaned towards Kyoya myself. However making something like SAO a harem is just unnecessary. Though I like Sinon as a character adding her to Asuna and the other random one episode girls isn't helping people like this anime. It happens with the bigger shows with tons of episodes but I guess I just like Josei too much.
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Posted 2/9/16 , edited 2/9/16

Ejanss wrote:


VividDreamZ wrote:

The thing the makes me angry about harems is the fact that they never go anywhere, but a lot of anime forces it into a plot and most times there is no character development or progression in the harem. You are left to your own conclusions. A lot of the harems are the same scenarios poorly written.

In my opinion the original Macross between Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes and Lynn Minmei was a well written harem situaiton in my eyes. That was realistic and delivered results.


Okay, let's define our terms, since Millennial Frustration tends to warp them all out of context once a trope discussion takes place.

A Love Triangle is not a Harem--We should establish a minimum of three girls before using the H-word.
When Tenchi had Ryoko and Ayeka fighting over him, that was a Triangle. When Mihoshi, Sasami and Washuu also started acting goo-goo-eyes toward him for comic/sentimental subplot--and he was a Nice Guy to the first two and trying to flee the third--then, and only then, it was a Harem.
The chief plot point of a Love Triangle with two girls is that one of the two is eventually going to win (as it's implied Ryoko did in the third Tenchi movie), and one is going to lose, and the hero must decide whose heart to break before things get any worse, or the losing female decides to take more drastic measures.
A Harem has the male stuck with 3+ females whether he wants them or not--for reasons of apartment sharing, or "marriage contracts", or other plot convenience that didn't ask his opinion on the matter--and since the hero is under no obligation to commit to any of them, or indeed wishes he could get rid of some of them, there's no plot conflict about which he'll choose.

The word, let's remember, was first coined by Ataru Moroboshi chasing five different females on Urusei Yatsura (all of whom immediately and regularly pounded his face into the pavement, thus making it the opposite of a "harem"), not to mention any guest episode characters, and hoping that they would ALL live in his apartment. For the record, he was allowed to see what that would look like, in an alternate future, and it didn't work out.



rabbitofcaerbannog

"Macross" was a love triangle, not a harem.

Thank you for clarifying.


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Posted 2/9/16
Ange had the best harem.

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Posted 2/9/16

RandeKnight wrote:

Harems are just love-triangle romances for men,

In an awful lot of romances for women, there'll be a girl who doesn't believe she's that good looking despite all evidence and people telling her to the contrary, and two guys fighting for her affections. One will be the husband material boy scout, and the other will be the mysterious harley riding bad boy in leather.
It's been done over and over and over again, but people, especially women love that trope and will keep consuming it.

I see little difference between them except that harems have a slightly wider variety of love interests - although most of them can be put into less than a dozen boxes.


This actually makes sense. I still don't care for either trope, but I see your point.
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Posted 2/9/16

KennyNitro wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

Dumb generalizations are dumb generalizations

Loved "How To Raise A Boring Girlfriend"
Loved "When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace"
Loved "My Mental Choices Are Completely Ruining My School Romantic Comedy"



gen·er·al·i·za·tion
ˌjen(ə)rələˈzāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: generalization; plural noun: generalizations; noun: generalisation; plural noun: generalisations

a general statement or concept obtained by inference from specific cases.


That was a pretty spot on generalization.


I was referring to specific cases where it doesn't fit the dumb generalization
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Posted 2/9/16
Lorreen said it best and spot on. There are many non-harem anime made each season. As a matter of fact, there are so few harem made in comparison that I tend to wonder why so many complain. Just look at this seasons offerings on anichart...

http://anichart.net/winter

Then look at last season's and the season's before that...

This season we have 52 new seasons. How many are harems? Less than 10. I'd even say possibly less than 5.

Last season? 62 shows total. How many harems? Less than 10. I'd even say possibly less than 5.

That means at most 10 harems a season vs. 42 to 52 non-harem shows, at best 5 harems a season vs. 47 to 57 non-harems. Far, far from a lot of harems.
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Posted 2/9/16

VZ68 wrote:

Ange had the best harem.



Your pictures to big why didn't you crop it? It's totally spilling over.
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Posted 2/9/16

VZ68 wrote:

Ange had the best harem.

With Tusk as the token male. But heck, I'm sure both would invite Hilda or Salida for a wild time.

Posted 2/9/16 , edited 2/9/16

neugenx wrote:

Lorreen said it best and spot on. There are many non-harem anime made each season. As a matter of fact, there are so few harem made in comparison that I tend to wonder why so many complain. Just look at this seasons offerings on anichart...

http://anichart.net/winter

Then look at last season's and the season's before that...

This season we have 52 new seasons. How many are harems? Less than 10. I'd even say possibly less than 5.

Last season? 62 shows total. How many harems? Less than 10. I'd even say possibly less than 5.

That means at most 10 harems a season vs. 42 to 52 non-harem shows, at best 5 harems a season vs. 47 to 57 non-harems. Far, far from a lot of harems.


I think the problem is when shows do not clearly identify under typical harem appearance and thus comes as a surprise that they are indeed harems. For example, one might watch Strike The Blood without realizing that it is a harem, as well as HIgh School Of the Dead or Walkure Romanze. I don't mind it, but when someone watches a show that doesn't meet up to expectations because of the harem tag, it gives off the appearance that harem is permeating every anime in existence.
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Posted 2/9/16 , edited 2/9/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:+
I think the problem is when shows do not clearly identify under typical harem appearance and thus comes as a surprise that they are indeed harems. For example, one might watch Strike The Blood without realizing that it is a harem, as well as HIgh School Of the Dead or Walkure Romanze. I don't mind it, but when someone watches a show that doesn't meet up to expectations because of the harem tag, it gives off the appearance that harem is permeating every anime in existence.


Again, it's the Millennial-Blame "All Purpose Bad-Things Word" for why a series must be poorly written or not live up to expectations--
If there's at least two cliche'-trope girls in it, and the plot isn't getting going, IT'S WUNNATHOSE EVIL HAREM SERIES THEY'RE ALL MAKING NOW!!!

And getting back to the "Triangle vs. Harem" distinction, it's important to say what is or isn't, before we all sink into the Millennial habit of forgetting what the darn word means in the first place:
For example, is "Is This A Zombie?" a "harem" series, just because we have our spud hero stuck in the house with three fantasy-premise girls, and at least another one shows up with a marriage contract, or is it a supernatural action show? (No, seriously, I'm asking; I'm halfway through it and haven't figured it out yet!--Anybody got a hint?? )

And when you hear fan-whines complaining about Sword Art Online as a, quote-fingers, "harem" show for having two romantic girl leads in it and an uncommitted protagonist, when all the poster really wanted to do was complain about the lame scripting, you see why you have to nip some bad fan habits in the bud before they start getting out of control.
Posted 2/9/16

Ejanss wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:+
I think the problem is when shows do not clearly identify under typical harem appearance and thus comes as a surprise that they are indeed harems. For example, one might watch Strike The Blood without realizing that it is a harem, as well as HIgh School Of the Dead or Walkure Romanze. I don't mind it, but when someone watches a show that doesn't meet up to expectations because of the harem tag, it gives off the appearance that harem is permeating every anime in existence.


Again, it's the Millennial-Blame "All Purpose Bad-Things Word" for why a series must be poorly written or not live up to expectations--
If there's at least two cliche'-trope girls in it, and the plot isn't getting going, IT'S WUNNATHOSE EVIL HAREM SERIES THEY'RE ALL MAKING NOW!!!

And getting back to the "Triangle vs. Harem" distinction, it's important to say what is or isn't, before we all sink into the Millennial habit of forgetting what the darn word means in the first place:
For example, is "Is This A Zombie?" a "harem" series, just because we have our spud hero stuck in the house with three fantasy-premise girls, and at least another one shows up with a marriage contract, or is it a supernatural action show? (No, seriously, I'm asking; I'm halfway through it and haven't figured it out yet!--Anybody got a hint?? )

And when you hear fan-whines complaining about Sword Art Online as a, quote-fingers, "harem" show for having two romantic girl leads in it, when all the poster really wanted to do was complain about the lame scripting, you see why you have to nip some bad fan habits in the bud before they start getting out of control.


I'm divided on whether or not SAO is a harem. The harem aspect isn't a large part of the show, because it's just there to make Kirito look desirable, and there's really no open endedness or a free for all concerning who Kirito ends up with, because that has been determined. In hindsight, it's probably encompasses the worst of a harem and some of the best, with a preconcluded wife at the end (and beginning) and where the relationship building with the other girls, although I guess could be "fun", go nowhere and will forever be unrequited.

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Posted 2/9/16 , edited 2/9/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Ejanss wrote:And when you hear fan-whines complaining about Sword Art Online as a, quote-fingers, "harem" show for having two romantic girl leads in it, when all the poster really wanted to do was complain about the lame scripting, you see why you have to nip some bad fan habits in the bud before they start getting out of control.


I'm divided on whether or not SAO is a harem. The harem aspect isn't a large part of the show, because it's just there to make Kirito look desirable, and there's really no open endedness or a free for all concerning who Kirito ends up with, because that has been determined. In hindsight, it's probably encompasses the worst of a harem and some of the best, with a preconcluded wife at the end (and beginning) and where the relationship building with the other girls, although I guess could be "fun", go nowhere and will forever be unrequited.



Well, I was trying to point that SAO is in no way, shape or form a "harem" series, just because the hero has more than one girlfriend, or at least the girls themselves think so.
It's a virtual-reality action series, which is already starting to become its own genre after Log Horizon, and that's enough for that. If you're going to complain, complain about the goofy villain, but bringing in the H-word is just trying to lump Everything You Hate into one big laundry pile.

I don't want to sink to the torture of aversion therapy, but a lot of the more vocal fans seem to have been born after the 90's, back when harem was more mainstream--and therefore just as prevalent--as it is now in the Otaku-stereotype era, and you can take a piece of chalk and draw a big age line on the floor about who complains about "Harem series" and who doesn't.
If you think you're smug about what is or isn't, subject yourself to a few episodes of Saber Marionette J--a now-forgotten 90's oldie which the producers, for some unfathomable reason, want to "reboot" next year--and you will never..
...ever...
...ever...
...EVER!!...
complain about any other genre-bending series being, quote, wunna-dem-dere-harem-thingies, for the rest of your life. The trauma will stick with you to the grave.

You gotta look into the pit, and take one shot straight from the glass, before you start throwing accusations around.
Posted 2/9/16 , edited 2/9/16

Ejanss wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Ejanss wrote:And when you hear fan-whines complaining about Sword Art Online as a, quote-fingers, "harem" show for having two romantic girl leads in it, when all the poster really wanted to do was complain about the lame scripting, you see why you have to nip some bad fan habits in the bud before they start getting out of control.


I'm divided on whether or not SAO is a harem. The harem aspect isn't a large part of the show, because it's just there to make Kirito look desirable, and there's really no open endedness or a free for all concerning who Kirito ends up with, because that has been determined. In hindsight, it's probably encompasses the worst of a harem and some of the best, with a preconcluded wife at the end (and beginning) and where the relationship building with the other girls, although I guess could be "fun", go nowhere and will forever be unrequited.



Well, I was trying to point that SAO is in no way, shape or form a "harem" series, just because the hero has more than one girlfriend, or at least they think so.
It's a virtual-reality action series, which is already starting to become its own genre after Log Horizon, and that's enough for that.

I don't want to sink to the torture of aversion therapy, but a lot of the fans seem to have been born after the 90's, back when harem was more mainstream--and therefore just as prevalent--as it is now in the Otaku-stereotype era, and you can take a piece of chalk and draw a big age line on the floor about who complains about "Harem series" and who doesn't--
If you think you're smug about what is or isn't, subject yourself to a few episodes of Saber Marionette J--a now-forgotten 90's oldie which the producers, for some unfathomable reason, want to "reboot" next year--and you will never..
...ever...
...ever...
...EVER!!...
complain about any other genre-bending series being, quote, wunna-dem-dere-harem-thingies, for the rest of your life. The trauma will stick with you to the grave.

You gotta look into the pit, and take one shot straight from the glass, before you start throwing accusations around.


I can agree the "more than one female=Harem" spitz is getting ridiculous, Especially considering Sinon or Yuuki are really female leads without romantic subplots or anything.
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