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Post Reply Apple vs. The FBI
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20 / M
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/22/16
The FBI has asked Apple to create a back door in their phones so they can get into an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino shooters. What the FBI doesn't realize (or maybe they do and just don't care) is that doing so would put every iPhone in danger and also set a reckless precedent that tech companies have to compromise the trust and safety of their users if the government tells them to. Apple refused and now a federal judge has asked Apple to comply with the ridiculous demand.

Tim Cook plans to challenge that order in the next few days. Here's a statement he put on his website that goes into more detail about why he's opposing this demand:



http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

From what I've seen, experts all over the tech industry agree with Apple on this. Even Google's CEO tweeted his support for Apple's decision today.
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29 / F / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 2/17/16
Not everyone will read the entire thing, but I appreciate how Apple took the time to explain to non-tekky folks how a backdoor would be exploited. It's increasingly a reality that we rely on systems and inventions whose workings are beyond comprehension, and it'll be interesting to see how that affects things going forward.
Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/21/16


The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.


Don't apple already collect people's personal data every second though?

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32 / M / Floridamned
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/17/16
Haven't really liked Apple in the past. Everyone wants to build in systems to take and exploit your data now. Specially after Microsoft's shit with windows 10. It sounds pretty good hearing Apple tell the government to back off, but I can't avoid feeling they're getting ethical because they wouldn't benefit from it and potentially stain their products.
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34 / M / Off the map.
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/17/16
Here is a little more on the history of the case. The judge ruled that Apple's iPhone does not fall under the CALEA and the All Write Act is usable to force them to cooperate.



from https://www.justsecurity.org/27214/quick-update-apple-privacy-writs-act-1789/
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/17/16

GayAsianBoy wrote:
Don't apple already collect people's personal data every second though?

they do however try to protect the user data, unlike Microsoft (who designed windows 10 with backdoors)
Apple is literally leading in protecting the privacy of their users. Not so sure about other companies like Google though.
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/17/16
To TL;DR this one for everyone. What they want Apple to do is build a bypass that disables an iPhone's security data wipe on too many incorrect passcode inputs. Thus making an iPhone vulnerable to a "brute force" attack of just throwing every possible passcode combination at it until it works.

Locking down after too many failed attempts is a cornerstone security feature for many devices, software, websites and web services. Specifically because brute forcing is the easiest of all breaching methods.

So yes, Apple is completely correct here. No such method of bypassing an iPhone's brute force protection exists. If they succeed in creating one, then it means its doable and inevitably it will be replicated in the wild. The FBI is smoking crack if they think this is a one time deal for a single phone and the judge is smoking crack if they think the FBI will totes never try this again if it works this one time.
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Posted 2/17/16 , edited 2/17/16
Wow, this is dumb. All the major news outlets want to paint it as a story about the FBI wanting to get into a specific phone (click bait), but its not even close to that. What they're asking for is basically a "favor" and something that might not even be legally required.
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Posted 2/17/16
it should be noted that the simple password - consisting of 4-6 digits and which most people use (along with the touch id) - is a joke in terms of security and can be broken easily by a computer - if there were no restrictions currently in place.
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26 / M / United States
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Posted 2/17/16
You know whats really crazy!!! That they are doing it anyway. Asking is just a courtesy.
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Posted 2/17/16
I see where he's coming from with this, but if they did this in a secure area with no wi-fi access or data access, only trusted personnel from the government and the Apple corporation, and a promise to absolute secrecy with the destruction of documents and the equipment used afterwards I don't see how they shouldn't be able to do this with one Iphone and then destroy it after that single use. An Iphone is a mixture of a telephone and a computer (thanks to how they were designed) with both publicly and privately accessible features. This is a fact no matter how you spin it. If the FBI is unable to use normal methods to find out more about terrorist plots like San Bernardino then how are they supposed to function anymore if they can't use what they have to solve this case? Criminals can just avoid them by hiding behind encryption technology and keep building it as Tim Cook describes. The FBI I feel may only be coming into a situation like this because any leads they may have had to other connections involving this matter are dried up.

I am only one of those general computer users that Tim Cook seeks to protect so please don't hate me, however, didn't people like Alan Turing, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc. build these machines or improve upon them to help fix problems that were unsolvable around the world?
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/17/16
meanwhile, if the phone was a windows phone or an android, i wonder how the situation would have developed.
Google wasn't openly against the violation to privacy as Apple was, and windows 10 ... lol.
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Posted 2/17/16

runec wrote:

To TL;DR this one for everyone. What they want Apple to do is build a bypass that disables an iPhone's security data wipe on too many incorrect passcode inputs. Thus making an iPhone vulnerable to a "brute force" attack of just throwing every possible passcode combination at it until it works.

Locking down after too many failed attempts is a cornerstone security feature for many devices, software, websites and web services. Specifically because brute forcing is the easiest of all breaching methods.

So yes, Apple is completely correct here. No such method of bypassing an iPhone's brute force protection exists. If they succeed in creating one, then it means its doable and inevitably it will be replicated in the wild. The FBI is smoking crack if they think this is a one time deal for a single phone and the judge is smoking crack if they think the FBI will totes never try this again if it works this one time.


Thanks for summarizing that. I've seen a lot of excuses for getting rid of encryption, but the excuse the FBI is using is a new one in my book. "Please create this master key. We'll only use it on this one lock." Who would be crazy enough to believe that? If the FBI believes it themselves, they must be smoking crack as you say.
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Posted 2/17/16
Connectivity is strength, surveillance is freedom.
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24 / M / Scotland
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Posted 2/17/16
As much as I hate apple, this request is retarded. Even if I want apple to burn, it's dangerous to leave such an open weakness for whatever reason - people will exploit it.
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