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Post Reply Apple vs. The FBI
33510 cr points
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21 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 2/18/16

Akage-chan wrote:

I feel that, if you've committed a terrorist action, you've surrendered your rights as an American.

It's like with children - Your rights are privileges and if you can't behave, such as going out and killing people in the name of your God, you don't deserve those rights and should lose them.

There's a big difference between giving the government access to grandma's phone and giving them access to that of a terrorist. The government has no interest in photos of kids and grandkids, so the majority of Americans would be safe. But those that are sponsoring terrorism, either financially or through their actions, should have their clouds looked at regularly.

Except what they are doing is exactly that. They are requesting a backdoor that will allow them access to grandma's phone just as easily as the terrorist's phone.
rvd696 
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28 / M / Stratford, Ontari...
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Posted 2/18/16
11707 cr points
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22 / M / AZ
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Posted 2/18/16
Why not? Apple products are shit already.
18318 cr points
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26 / M / Chicago
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Posted 2/18/16

Rekkeh wrote:


PhantomGundam wrote:

The FBI has asked Apple to create a back door in their phones so they can get into an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino shooters. What the FBI doesn't realize (or maybe they do and just don't care) is that doing so would put every iPhone in danger and also set a reckless precedent that tech companies have to compromise the trust and safety of their users if the government tells them to. Apple refused and now a federal judge has asked Apple to comply with the ridiculous demand.

Tim Cook plans to challenge that order in the next few days. Here's a statement he put on his website that goes into more detail about why he's opposing this demand:



http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

From what I've seen, experts all over the tech industry agree with Apple on this. Even Google's CEO tweeted his support for Apple's decision today.


FBI is at it again?
Why do they never give up


The ghost of J Edgar Hoover forever haunts the FBI.

51315 cr points
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20 / M
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Posted 2/18/16

Akage-chan wrote:

There's a big difference between giving the government access to grandma's phone and giving them access to that of a terrorist.


Actually in this case, there is no difference. If Apple creates a backdoor to get into this one terrorist's phone, it'll be used against any phone. Apple would be making their own products significantly weaker and putting their millions of customers in danger. Once you have a backdoor to one iPhone, you have a backdoor to all iPhones. That's what Tim Cook was trying to explain in that letter he posted.

That's only the short term risk. When you look at the bigger picture, this is basically Apple letting the world know that the government can use any excuse to force them to break their own phones. You don't think an authoritarian government like China will eventually take advantage of this? Countries like them are more interested in eliminating political opposition than catching terrorists. Apple would be setting a very dangerous precedent if they allow the FBI to push them around like this. This causes way too much damage all for the sake of trying to read one man's messages. It's not worth it.

Now, I'm no fan of Apple and I think their productivity took a dive when Tim Cook took over, but at least I can say Tim Cook is doing the right thing here and standing up against an order that is both extremely ignorant and dangerous.
37144 cr points
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Posted 2/18/16
You know you are in a bad spot when a mega corporation has the moral high ground over the government. Government is supposed to be the voice of the people standing up to and restraining corporations like Apple. And yet the government is always on the wrong side of privacy issues.
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23 / M / CO, USA
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Posted 2/18/16 , edited 2/20/16
RAW RAW FIGHT THE POWAH
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Hoosierville
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Posted 2/18/16 , edited 2/18/16

Akage-chan wrote:

I feel that, if you've committed a terrorist action, you've surrendered your rights as an American.

It's like with children - Your rights are privileges and if you can't behave, such as going out and killing people in the name of your God, you don't deserve those rights and should lose them.

There's a big difference between giving the government access to grandma's phone and giving them access to that of a terrorist. The government has no interest in photos of kids and grandkids, so the majority of Americans would be safe. But those that are sponsoring terrorism, either financially or through their actions, should have their clouds looked at regularly.


Nope even American terrorists are protected by the constitution. You cannot deny anyone's rights. not saying they will escape unscathed but we gotta follow the constitution.

Even so they deserve a fair trial being judged by their peers.

No there isn't, have you ever coded before? A computer has no idea who accesses it. The thing just receives signals and does what it was programmed to do with those signals. A secure computer is a computer that has no back doors and can only be accessed in ways known to the owner. An insecure computer makes back doors that everyone including the FBI, hackers, and terrorists will access. Also the government has no right to those photo's without a warrant.

From what I have read this guy had full encryption on his phone and it was encrypted with a secure password. It was also setup to self-delete after so many login attempts. If the phone was actually designed securely then there will be NO back doors or ways for even Apple to access it. The FBI wants apple to create a new OS that is insecure with a backdoor on all other apple phones because they are mad that they can't get the information. By doing that they make ALL their phones insecure including any that might be used in governments. So if a back door was installed the president or a senator might get hacked and lose national security secrets that are actually dangerous in the wrong hands.
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F / San Francisco
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Posted 2/18/16
^ Yeah, that's not true. You have no rights at the US border. Your possessions and electronics can be examined without a court order. Happens every day.

You seem to think that the government actually cares about your grandma's photos. They don't. They're not going to seize grandma's phone and dump it looking for vacation photos.

As for the possibility of a government official having their phone compromised, that's their dumb fault for keeping sensitive data on their phone. Same goes with people keeping sensitive and financial information on their phones. I have no sympathy for people who put too much information online and then get their accounts hacked.
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/18/16
"i don't care about privacy, so nobody should, either" <-- brilliant logic right there
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Hoosierville
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Posted 2/18/16

Akage-chan wrote:

^ Yeah, that's not true. You have no rights at the US border. Your possessions and electronics can be examined without a court order. Happens every day.

You seem to think that the government actually cares about your grandma's photos. They don't. They're not going to seize grandma's phone and dump it looking for vacation photos.

As for the possibility of a government official having their phone compromised, that's their dumb fault for keeping sensitive data on their phone. Same goes with people keeping sensitive and financial information on their phones. I have no sympathy for people who put too much information online and then get their accounts hacked.


Most things are digital nowadays. The only way to send people documents is digital at times. Everything is stored on your computer/phone and if we make back doors for ANYONE (computers know not the difference between FBI and China) then it puts everything at risk. Either we go back to the pre-digital age and put everything into warehouses full of filing cabinets or we have to secure our computers. The FBI is putting everyone at risk with their insane behavior.

Btw just incase you didn't know Androids are linux systems and andoid phones are nothing more than portable computers. iOS is probably the same. Smartphones are pretty much just mobile computers with phone features added in.

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20 / M
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Posted 2/18/16

Akage-chan wrote:

^ Yeah, that's not true. You have no rights at the US border. Your possessions and electronics can be examined without a court order. Happens every day.


Just because it happens every day doesn't mean it's legal. Politicians bribe and blackmail each other every day. Police (not most, but some) abuse their authority and use excessive force on innocent people every day. They also plant evidence. Just because it happens doesn't mean it's what should happen. Your private property can't be searched without warrants. If you're suspected of committing a crime, you have the right to a fair and honest trial. We have these laws for a reason, you know. These laws are to protect me and you. You may not mind having your rights taken away, but it's ridiculous to say that nobody is entitled to these rights.

Also, you keep insisting that this backdoor the FBI is asking for won't be used against any random person, but that's exactly what a backdoor would do if it were created. It's not possible to limit it to just this one iPhone. If Apple is successful in creating this backdoor, they'd be making ALL of their phones unsecured. It's not reasonable to blame someone for putting personal information on their own phone. Especially in an age where everything is becoming more digital at a rapid rate. Pretty much everyone has used their credit card online at some point in their life. If their credit card gets stolen after shopping on Amazon, it won't be because they did what any normal human being would do. It would be because their phone/tablet/pc had weak security. What the FBI is demanding is for Apple to make every iPhone unsecured just because they're mad that they can't break into one guy's phone. There's no logic behind that.
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/18/16
it would really suck if you had Apple Pay / Samsung Pay set up, and your phone gets stolen
+ the thief is able to bypass the lock through a backdoor (which he/she will, if Apple makes it avaiable) and buy stuff using the stolen phone.
51315 cr points
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20 / M
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Posted 2/19/16
Now the Fed is lying about what this fight is about and attacking Apple for not bowing down to an insane request.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-apple-fbi-motion-to-compel-20160219-story.html

Apparently this prosecutor expects people to believe that he knows more about iPhones than the guys who build them.
runec 
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Posted 2/19/16 , edited 2/19/16

PhantomGundam wrote:
Apparently this prosecutor expects people to believe that he knows more about iPhones than the guys who build them.


Dude can go fuck himself. This is the third time the government has tried to compel Apple using the All Writs Act like this.

The first time the judge ordered Apple to help, but pointedly said she would *not* order Apple to break their own encryption or undermine their own security. Only have them provide reasonable assistance in bypassing the passcode if it was possible.

The second time the judge told the government to politely go fuck itself and that this was an unprecedented attempt at government overreach he could not condone.

This is the third time and the government is essentially banking on "OMG TERRORISM" to fear monger the courts into making Apple do what they want. As evidenced by this predictable asshole trying to shame Apple with fear mongering.

The San Bernardino shooters destroyed or wiped ALL of their documents and personal electronics ( phones, laptops, you name it ). What the FBI has is the guy's work phone. Not his personal phone. He didn't care about his work phone, hence its intact. I doubt the FBI expects to find much of anything on the phone. But they want this legal precedent so they can use it in the future to compel any company to hand over encrypted personal data.

Apple may as well sign its own death warrant if it complies. Apple is an international business. Who in the world wants a smartphone thats not only vulnerable to hackers but that the American government can snoop in whenever it likes? The Terrorists(tm) will just move on to the next secure product, and the FBI will throw the same legal precedent at that company. Then they'll move on to the next product. Over and over again till we've undercut every major electronic company's security measures.

Or the companies themselves say fuck it and just stop doing business in the US to begin with. Which would be wonderful for the economy. >.>



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