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Post Reply Apple vs. The FBI
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21 / M / McDonough
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Posted 2/20/16
Tell the FBI to go fuck themselves. I'm with Apple on this.
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21 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 2/20/16 , edited 2/20/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

Yes, I am well aware that lots of people have iphones. But are you seriously telling me that Apple, the people who created the iphone, can't unlock one without unlocking every single other iphone in the world? That is completely bullshit.

I'm not tech savvy, but even I can see why this is a problem.

x We already know that the FBI/NSA have had problems with upkeeping privacy laws to begin with.

x You can't just ask Apple to take the phone and make a master lock for a one time use and expect it to stop there.

x There's probably a reason that a master lock doesn't already exist.
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Posted 2/20/16

aListers wrote:

As much as I hate apple, this request is retarded. Even if I want apple to burn, it's dangerous to leave such an open weakness for whatever reason - people will exploit it.


^
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20 / M / Sweden
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Posted 2/20/16

GayAsianBoy wrote:



The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.


Don't apple already collect people's personal data every second though?



They like every other company collects personal information. But what's being stored by them and other companies is information that helps improve their products and things like purchase history and search.

However what the FBI and Trump wants is to have a back door (security hole) for them to get in. And this is wrong in so many ways, since it will be abused for other things then just solving crimes... Due to well... Humans holding the keys.

And even if it wasn't abused, then hackers and potatual stalkers/killers would have access to your phone if they uncrypt every phone. No matter how you look at it, this is bad.
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F / United Kingdom
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Posted 2/20/16



You know nothing about computers, programming, or security and yet you are saying were full of shit? When you create a truly secure system then the only person that can access it will be the owner of that system. If the phone was designed right then no one not even apple can access it. Unlocking it isn't as simple as lock picking a lock.

The phone has full encryption which if done properly and with a secure password can take 10,000 years to try to decrypt without the password. Assuming apple wasn't spying on their users then not even apple will have the password. To make matters worse the phone was setup to self-erase after so many failed login attempts.

Also all I phones are clones of one another so if they actually manage to unlock one it signals to all hackers that there is a backdoor ready to be exploited. Once its found everyones information is at risk.

Learn about how computers work and programming before you go spouting nonsense all over the internet you FBI shill.



You don't need to be an expert in computer programming to know that this is incredibly suspicious. Apple created the phone. They wouldn't create products they themselves can't access. If they created it then they should know how to unlock it.

There will be a way to unlock that one phone without unlocking every single other iphone. A "backdoor" isn't necessary if you actually were the one who created the damn phone. And hypothetically is this was true, and the security was genuinely that secure on an iphone, the question i'd be asking is....why? Why would they bother to go to so much trouble to create such secure phones that even the FBI and the creators themselves can't get in? Sounds incredibly suspicious to me. I hope that isn't the case and it is just bullshit, because if it isn't then what in earth are Apple up to?
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/20/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:
You don't need to be an expert in computer programming to know that this is incredibly suspicious. Apple created the phone. They wouldn't create products they themselves can't access. If they created it then they should know how to unlock it.

There will be a way to unlock that one phone without unlocking every single other iphone. A "backdoor" isn't necessary if you actually were the one who created the damn phone. And hypothetically is this was true, and the security was genuinely that secure on an iphone, the question i'd be asking is....why? Why would they bother to go to so much trouble to create such secure phones that even the FBI and the creators themselves can't get in? Sounds incredibly suspicious to me. I hope that isn't the case and it is just bullshit, because if it isn't then what in earth are Apple up to?

individual privacy. Apple made it so you can feel confident you won't be hacked.
FBI request would make every phone vulnerable.
no, you cannot make a program that unlocks just 1 single phone.
...you know what? why do i even bother..?

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F / United Kingdom
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Posted 2/20/16 , edited 2/20/16

I'm not tech savvy, but even I can see why this is a problem.

x We already know that the FBI/NSA have had problems with upkeeping privacy laws to begin with.

x You can't just ask Apple to take the phone and make a master lock for a one time use and expect it to stop there.

x There's probably a reason that a master lock doesn't already exist



So the FBI has problems up keeping privacy? Well for a start sort that out. But even if they do, if you only unlock that one guys phone, so what? He killed a man so has no right to any kind of privacy. If the contents of his phone becomes known to every single person in the world, so what? He doesn't deserve any kind of protection. I know if he has plans for terrorist attacks on there it might cause panic if it's well known, but still...

Why can't we ask Apple to make a master lock for one time use? This situation calls for it. Why are they so desperate to protect this man who is a terrorist? Just unlock that ONE phone.

As for a master lock not already existing, well that is a bit strange isn't it? I think it's complete bullshit because why would a company create phones that they themselves cannot get into? But if it was true, why? Why create such security for phones? What are they up to? What don't they want the government to see?
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F / United Kingdom
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Posted 2/20/16


individual privacy. Apple made it so you can feel confident you won't be hacked.
FBI request would make every phone vulnerable.
no, you cannot make a program that unlocks just 1 single phone.
...you know what? why do i even bother..?





Why use a programme to unlock it then? Unlock it manually. As the creators of the phone, I am sure they can do that. This whole "if we unlock this phone then every single iphone in the world will unlock" is complete bullshit. And I'm amazed so many people are gullible enough to fall for it. But then people will believe and buy any old crap that big companies tell them to now, huh?
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/20/16 , edited 2/20/16
sigh...sometimes logic and reasoning cannot be taught for those who can't understand reason.

edit: maybe you were just trolling, in which case, good job >.>
Posted 2/20/16
i think all this is just fake

they are just pretending to be fighting, ¿what for?, to make people trust tech companies again, to make people think that the us goverment is not spying on us anymore.
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21 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 2/20/16 , edited 2/20/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

So the FBI has problems up keeping privacy? Well for a start sort that out.
I don't trust any part of the government that handles surveillance and information to uphold any sort of regard for any privacy laws. I meant NSA (was going to edit that out because I wasn't sure which of the organizations was the one that was caught a couple years ago infringing the rights of citizen's privacy and forgot to). My bad lol.


But even if they do, if you only unlock that one guys phone, so what? He killed a man so has no right to any kind of privacy. If the contents of his phone becomes known to every single person in the world, so what? He doesn't deserve any kind of protection.
That's not the point that anyone here is trying to make.. No one is defending his rights, and people trying to reason with you are not going to get anywhere until you understand this. No one is defending the terrorist.


I know if he has plans for terrorist attacks on there it might cause panic if it's well known, but still...
And this is most likely the main reason that the FBI wants the phone to be cracked open.


Why can't we ask Apple to make a master lock for one time use? This situation calls for it. Why are they so desperate to protect this man who is a terrorist? Just unlock that ONE phone.
This is where you are confusing yourself. Apple is not trying to defend the man. They are trying to avoid being forced to make a code that essentially makes every IOS security features a joke. It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that the government are not going to only use it for this one time.

"With great power comes great responsibility." The government has proven many times that they are not responsible with power.


As for a master lock not already existing, well that is a bit strange isn't it? I think it's complete bullshit because why would a company create phones that they themselves cannot get into?
No, I do not think so. The company is based in a country that is supposed to be based around privacy. As much as I don't like the IOS, I do respect that they are upholding that value and they are not concerned with the inside of your phone.


But if it was true, why? Why create such security for phones? What are they up to? What don't they want the government to see?

The above is as far as I can attempt to help you see it the way that you obviously do not, or do not want to, see. It's not to protect the terrorist, it's to keep the government from using this master key to unlock any and every phone that they so desire and look and see into innocent civilian's phones whenever they so wish.

Also, introducing this backdoor, which does not yet exist in IOS, will allow common thieves to snag personal information that can be stored in the phone. Every access your bank account over your phone's internet? Have your credit card stored on the app store?

The government is asking for them to purposefully weaken the very security features that allow you to not only safely deal with finance over your phone but the features that keep all of your personal information, personal.
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F / United Kingdom
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Posted 2/20/16


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


eclair-lumiere wrote:

So the FBI has problems up keeping privacy? Well for a start sort that out.
I don't trust any part of the government that handles surveillance and information to uphold any sort of regard for any privacy laws. I meant NSA (was going to edit that out because I wasn't sure which of the organizations was the one that was caught a couple years ago infringing the rights of citizen's privacy and forgot to). My bad lol.


But even if they do, if you only unlock that one guys phone, so what? He killed a man so has no right to any kind of privacy. If the contents of his phone becomes known to every single person in the world, so what? He doesn't deserve any kind of protection.
That's not the point that anyone here is trying to make.. No one is defending his rights, and people trying to reason with you are not going to get anywhere until you understand this. No one is defending the terrorist.


I know if he has plans for terrorist attacks on there it might cause panic if it's well known, but still...
And this is most likely the main reason that the FBI wants the phone to be cracked open.


Why can't we ask Apple to make a master lock for one time use? This situation calls for it. Why are they so desperate to protect this man who is a terrorist? Just unlock that ONE phone.
This is where you are confusing yourself. Apple is not trying to defend the man. They are trying to avoid being forced to make a code that essentially makes every IOS security features a joke. It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that the government are not going to only use it for this one time.

"With great power comes great responsibility." The government has proven many times that they are not responsible with power.


As for a master lock not already existing, well that is a bit strange isn't it? I think it's complete bullshit because why would a company create phones that they themselves cannot get into?
No, I do not think so. The company is based in a country that is supposed to be based around privacy. As much as I don't like the IOS, I do respect that they are upholding that value and they are not concerned with the inside of your phone.


But if it was true, why? Why create such security for phones? What are they up to? What don't they want the government to see?

The above is as far as I can attempt to help you see it the way that you obviously do not, or do not want to, see. It's not to protect the terrorist, it's to keep the government that will use this master key to unlock any and every phone that they desire and look and see into innocent civilian's phones whenever they so wish.

Introducing this backdoor, which does not yet exist in IOS, will allow common thieves to snag personal information that can be stored in the phone. Every access your bank account over your phone's internet? Have your credit card stored on the app store?


So basically the reason Apple are refusing to do anything is because if they create a master key, every phone can be unlocked. Well yes, I agree that would be bad (although I don't own an Apple phone so I don't care).

But here's an easy solution... unlock the ONE phone, for fucks sake! If they just unlocked the terrorists phone, maybe the FBI wouldn't ask for a master key to unlock every phone, as they would already have what they need.

And if the FBI continued to ask, well fair enough then the FBI is up to something. But I can't sympathise with Apple at all until they actually unlock the terrorist's phone.
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21 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 2/20/16 , edited 2/20/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

So basically the reason Apple are refusing to do anything is because if they create a master key, every phone can be unlocked. Well yes, I agree that would be bad (although I don't own an Apple phone so I don't care).

But here's an easy solution... unlock the ONE phone, for fucks sake! If they just unlocked the terrorists phone, maybe the FBI wouldn't ask for a master key to unlock every phone, as they would already have what they need.
I don't believe it is that simple. I thought of this already, as well, so surely this has already been a passing thought or even addressed. I'm not tech savvy, so I can't really offer any more past that.

Actually, the thing is, even if they did develop a backdoor for the IOS, even if they did it somehow outside of every IOS and only uploaded the new cracked version of the IOS to the one phone to retrieve the files and revert the phone back, the moment that they create the backdoor will be the deciding factor of the FBI demanding this to be done on every phone that they deem to have sensitive information on it.

The moment they develop this code, even if it was somehow possible to do it outside of the loop of every other IOS system, it will be demanded from them again and again. Not to mention that the cracked OS could end up being leaked.
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 2/20/16
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20 / M
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Posted 2/20/16
There's just no reasoning with this girl. I don't know how many times I've argued with her in different threads and she just ignores whatever she doesn't like hearing. At this point, I'm convinced she's either trolling or she's just a little kid who doesn't understand how the real world works. Her entire argument is basically this:

"We shouldn't make a backdoor for every phone."
"Then just open this one phone."
"We can't do that without weakening the system that every iPhone runs on."
"I don't care. Just do it for one phone."
"I'm telling you that's impossible."
"Then make it possible."
"For the last time, that can't be done-"
"JUST DO IT!"

eclair, you probably missed much of what was said on the last page. I posted a simplified explanation of why this isn't possible. Someone else posted a simple analogy that even a child can understand. Go back and read those. If you still don't understand, there's nothing more we can say to you.
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