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Post Reply In Defense of Political Correctness
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
I'll start with a definition. If you use 'political correctness' differently than I do, then please give me your definition in return. Either way, I'll define it in the way that I believe most people are apt to use the word. I'll define it as such: to act politically correct is to 'act in a way calculated to offend the least number of people.' This seems, to me, the best way to get at what most people are despairing at when they talk about PC. Given some of the results of this definition, I have the feeling that some would insist on defining it differently, which is fine, and I'll get into that later. After all, I may find out that even I have a problem with my definition. But for now, let's consider the problem with the above definition, and we can work from there.

First, I see nothing wrong, inherently, with a thing being politically correct. It is, for example, overwhelmingly the Politically Correct stance to be against: rape, serial killing, drug addiction, fascism, and child molestation. Being pro-any-of-those-things is basically a sure stance to offend just about everyone, which means that, by definition, if you are against any of the above, you have taken the politically correct position. And further, if someone ever tried to criticize an 'anti-rape proponent' by calling them PC, how could you see it as anything more than a massive non-sequitur? Surely, you might say, whether or not it's PC is irrelevant? And that is, basically, how I usually see PC-hate. Which is to say, as a massive non-sequitur.

Political Correctness is essentially, a form of etiquette. And etiquette, mind you, has been around for millennia. And this is where I'll make my position clear, because I'm not saying here that political correctness is the same as, for instance, ethical correctness, or moral correctness, or economical correctness, etc. If one's goal is political, then the best choice to make is the politically correct choice. That's it. There may be more important things to you than politics, and in the case when, for instance, the politically correct and the ethically correct contradict each other, then you may likely reject political correctness. But this is not because, contrary to popular belief, political correctness is wrong, but because your political goals are superseded by your ethical ones. I would recommend roughly the same advice about political correctness that I would about etiquette -- you should be polite as possible until it interferes with something of higher import.

Edit: Food for Thought: Given Donald Trump's success in the Republican party, would you say that bashing political correctness is, politically, the correct decision?
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Posted 2/24/16
You give some examples, but it barely covers the scope of the issues people have with political correctness.

When it comes to something like race, how do you draw the line between offensive and inoffensive? People who complain about people being too PC beleive that the line oversteps boundaries and makes almost everything offensive.

Really though, what is ethics? Everyone has a different moral code to them, and you really can't blanket everyone under one brand of ethics. What one may see as inethical, another may see as perfectly fine.

It does feel that nowadays, people get offended too easily.
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Posted 2/24/16

bobland wrote:

You give some examples, but it barely covers the scope of the issues people have with political correctness.

When it comes to something like race, how do you draw the line between offensive and inoffensive? People who complain about people being too PC beleive that the line oversteps boundaries and makes almost everything offensive.

Really though, what is ethics? Everyone has a different moral code to them, and you really can't blanket everyone under one brand of ethics. What one may see as inethical, another may see as perfectly fine.

It does feel that nowadays, people get offended too easily.


My point is not to figure out what is or is not politically correct, but rather, "Is political correctness wrong?" or "Is calling something 'politically correct' a valid criticism?" I have no intention of debating whether or not, for instance, it's okay for a white guy to call his white friend 'my nigga.' That's for another time.
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
I'm fine with self censorship, just not fine with censoring other people's ideas because either we don't agree with them or they offend us. I'm for freedom of ideas and speech.
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Posted 2/24/16
i guess it's better than being politically incorrect
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Posted 2/24/16
PC is destroying the western world.
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
It is at once fascinating and infuriating the lefts ability to maintain lofty flower-hippy-daisy definitions of the terms they use, (To say nothing of their tendency to redefine terms in order to pigeon-hole their opposition as racists/bigots etc.) while simultaneously ignoring the fascistic real world experiences that people have as a result of their policies / linguistic manipulations.
Somewhere, someone is having their store/business picketed and/or shut down, someone is losing their job or the like, because they "think wrong" - Political correctness is NOT about "etiquette", or being against such uncontroversial positions as being "against rape" it is about CONTROLLING THOUGHT! It is about pressuring people into either agreeing with PC culture, or keeping their mouths shut. It is about taking genuine, honest disagreements, and pressuring one side into keeping quiet.

You May well have genuinely intended to start a dialogue about this term, and I don't know where you sit on the political spectrum, maybe your definition is simply the "default" in the political landscape that you live in, and perhaps I am coming on stronger than you expected, but the definition you provided for political correctness is far too rose colored for me to believe that you have even looked into the issue from anything other than a leftist perspective. You said that you thought you were defining the term as most people are apt to, but I say you defined it as most LEFTISTS are apt to, and those on the left, overwhelmingly, are the ones likely to use PC to police thought/speech. It is no wonder they would feel a need to pretty-up the definition.

In short:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

(Wait a minute, isn't this definition from that BS MTV clip that came out recently? Could be wrong about that *shrug*)
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
but first a power deer doing some work out.
TL;DR - Doxxed & Caught on Camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXNE00Cnaqk
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/25/16

theYchromosome wrote:


bobland wrote:

You give some examples, but it barely covers the scope of the issues people have with political correctness.

When it comes to something like race, how do you draw the line between offensive and inoffensive? People who complain about people being too PC beleive that the line oversteps boundaries and makes almost everything offensive.

Really though, what is ethics? Everyone has a different moral code to them, and you really can't blanket everyone under one brand of ethics. What one may see as inethical, another may see as perfectly fine.

It does feel that nowadays, people get offended too easily.


My point is not to figure out what is or is not politically correct, but rather, "Is political correctness wrong?" or "Is calling something 'politically correct' a valid criticism?" I have no intention of debating whether or not, for instance, it's okay for a white guy to call his white friend 'my nigga.' That's for another time.


In order to define whether political correctness is wrong, it has to be defined - that is, you have to draw a line between what is and is not considered political correctness.

Now, I think it is folly to try to label something like that (political correctness) as wrong or right. Its highly subjective, and you will get differing opinions throughout different cultures. It doesn't make one right or one wrong. It's like when Western society would declare other societies barbaric or savage, label people within it heathens. This still occurs, and it is a shame, but it a practice I like to admonish whenever I can. You have to gauge things like this within cultural contexts, and most of the time, things as specific as this differ within subcultures very easily.

But, do I favor political correctness? To a degree. Sometimes it can be taken too far, like people expecting to be called really unnatural pronouns readily and easily, or like people being targeted and slammed for using a word that isn't in vogue anymore. But in many instances, it is a good thing, I feel. So long as the demand isn't too outlandish, comply - what harm does it do to call a transgender a him or a her? It makes them feel much better and takes very little effort. If people don't want to be called "the n-word" or which ever word, don't call them that. It's easy to do.

There is a bit of a gray area when it comes to expressing ideas. All ideas should be free to be spoken, but I recognize that some can become caustic simply because of the nature of some topics. It is important to balance truth with kindness.
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Posted 2/24/16
Your definition makes some sense, but I don't think that it is representative of the term's standard usage. I think, more commonly, political correctness is referring not to attempts to avoid offending others yourself, but rather, being offended for another's sake, typically over a trivial matter. If that is the case, then political correctness is certainly wrong in my opinion. On the other hand, going by your definition, I see nothing wrong with it.
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16

nester_of_smeg wrote:

It is at once fascinating and infuriating the lefts ability to maintain lofty flower-hippy-daisy definitions of the terms they use, (To say nothing of their tendency to redefine terms in order to pigeon-hole their opposition as racists/bigots etc.) while simultaneously ignoring the fascistic real world experiences that people have as a result of their policies / linguistic manipulations.
Somewhere, someone is having their store/business picketed and/or shut down, someone is losing their job or the like, because they "think wrong" - Political correctness is NOT about "etiquette", or being against such uncontroversial positions as being "against rape" it is about CONTROLLING THOUGHT! It is about pressuring people into either agreeing with PC culture, or keeping their mouths shut. It is about taking genuine, honest disagreements, and pressuring one side into keeping quiet.

You May well have genuinely intended to start a dialogue about this term, and I don't know where you sit on the political spectrum, maybe your definition is simply the "default" in the political landscape that you live in, and perhaps I am coming on stronger than you expected, but the definition you provided for political correctness is far too rose colored for me to believe that you have even looked into the issue from anything other than a leftist perspective. You said that you thought you were defining the term as most people are apt to, but I say you defined it as most LEFTISTS are apt to, and those on the left, overwhelmingly, are the ones likely to use PC to police thought/speech. It is no wonder they would feel a need to pretty-up the definition.

In short:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

(Wait a minute, isn't this definition from that BS MTV clip that came out recently? Could be wrong about that *shrug*)


^says the guy who declines to provide a better definition.

If my definition of the word doesn't fit your usage, then tell me how you use it. It's a word(s). It doesn't mean anything independent of what each person assigns it. If what I mean by it isn't what you mean by it, then tell me what you mean. I gave a definition in order to be clear. If I'm defining it as a leftist would, then I advise you to give me the corresponding conservative definition. I'm unsure how pro-rape could ever come out on the side of politically correct, but, it's your definition. YOU TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS. If I'm ignorant, then learn me some things.


foraslan wrote:

Your definition makes some sense, but I don't think that it is representative of the term's standard usage. I think, more commonly, political correctness is referring not to attempts to avoid offending others yourself, but rather, being offended for another's sake, typically over a trivial matter. If that is the case, then political correctness is certainly wrong in my opinion. On the other hand, going by your definition, I see nothing wrong with it.


Well, if it refers to being being offended for another's sake, then it seems to me that being offended about, say, child soldiers in Africa would be politically correct. I see no problem there. If we attach the requirement that the thing in question is trivial, then surely, criticisms of racism, nationalism, fascism, communism etc. are anything but trivial matters. Those are all things that hold significance to the parties involved, and indeed, the complaints come out precisely because they believe the thing in question to be non-trivial. Very little, I think, that's actually being criticized for being politically correct actually seems to fit this definition, to my eye at least.
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
Political correctness usually only comes from one of two places.
Genuine respect and care not to offend people and the other one, politics.
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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/24/16
There is NOTHING wrong with being PC just as there is nothing wrong with speaking your mind. The problem comes when people take it to one extreme or another. Moderation is the key. Look at the word bias. Being bias is a good thing and has helped the human species to thrive. Humans are very good at sizing other people up. Being bias is what keeps us from going down that dark alley at night when we see someone that just makes us feel threatened. Biasedness in and of itself is not a bad thing but taken to an extreme and mixed with hate or anger then you get things like racism. Being bias is a good thing. Taking it to an extreme is not.

It's definitely not wrong to be PC when it comes to certain things. Rape comes to mind. There's just no way you can swing that conversation. Rape is evil and a horribly violent crime.....end of story. But on the other end of the spectrum you can't use PC as a way of keeping people down and not allowing them to speak their mind. I cannot stand Donald Trump. I hate every single asinine word that oozes out of his big fat narcissistic face but I would give my life in a heartbeat to defend his right to say those things. I don't have to like or agree with what someone says but I will always agree that they have a right to say it. You just have to remember that they're only words and you and you alone are the ONLY one who can allow those words to hurt you. Nobody in this world can hurt your feelings unless you allow them to. That's a lot easier to preach than practice though. Words do have consequences at times so while you are always free to speak your mind just remember there's a time and a place for everything. Facebook might not be the best forum for letting the world know how much your boss sucks.

I don't care one way or the other about being PC. I try to be respectful to everyone but sadly fail at times. I try to self censor myself online but don't care if others don't. I am not the thought police and it's next to impossible to really understand where someone online is coming from. Are they just being an anonymous jerk (because really who hasn't been one at some time) or do they mean it? I bet that 90% of the people who spew forth all kinds of racist or discriminatory remarks online are probably super nice people in real life and aren't actually racists. Anonymity gives people the power to say what they want with little fear and no consequences and if we're being honest how many of us haven't used the internet as a way to vent our frustrations or angers. Sometimes it's just a way to let off a little steam so next time you see some jerk online being a racist maybe he's really not the racist you think he is. Maybe he's just being a jerk and not thinking about the effects his or her words may have on others. Sure that's in poor taste to use derogatory or discriminatory remarks but does it truly meant they actually feel this way? On the other hand try to think before you post. How would you like it if you were the mom or dad of a young (insert race or religion here) and you found your child crying from all the mean things that were said to them online? Or just the general hate that they read online. How do you even go about explaining to a child that there exist people in the world who will always hate or fear you because of the color of your skin or because of your religious beliefs or lack thereof. How do you think most people learn to hate? Granted a small child probably shouldn't be on the internet alone like that in the first place but kids are getting more and more tech savvy these days. Just think before you post. Imagine if your little brother, sister, child, whatever were on the receiving end of all this hatred and how that would make you feel. You can have respect yet still speak your mind. You can vent without angering the world. Moderation is the key in all things.
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Posted 2/24/16

ZavinRoyalheart wrote:
Political correctness usually only comes from one of two places.
Genuine respect and care not to offend people and the other one, politics.


And that is precisely the problem. Political correctness by definition is simply ensuring you are not offending people by using dickish or outdated terms. There is no clear line between what is or is not politically correct as much like manners or etiquette, it will vary from person to person.

Politically speaking, as clearly evidenced in this thread so far, its been vilified as a derogatory term. Oft trotted out by politicians to deflect criticism of their actions or policies. Its not the first term to suffer this fate nor will it be the last. If you can't argue against the concept, you vilify the term itself. Dirty politics 101. Especially American politics. Which are basically half marketing/advertising and half actual politics. Sometimes less.

Especially lately. -.-

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Posted 2/24/16 , edited 2/25/16
Umm... I know it's lazy not to address things on a case by case basis... But political correctness is a term for an espoused ideology that is politically expedient... That is, a form of pandering used to appease as many as possible. Specifically, this tends to imply a dishonesty in word or action rather than just maintaining a proper sort of rules for discourse. PC is about churning forth euphemisms to disguise what are frequently logically and usually morally indefensible stances. In the U.S. Of terms are usually key-jingling distractions to try to distance our discomfort from institutional racism and biases one one side or not claiming ownership to our own decisions on others (two of the more common examples I see). Talking about urban revitalization, as a way to ignore that everything leading to urban decay (both euphamizms in their own way) still remains structurally, just people trying to get other people out of their way in the most inoffensive double speak possible. In true Internet message board fashion, I could list tons of -then-politically correct topics which were wrapped up in one final solution in the 40s. Maybe I should talk about how the U.S. Was the birthplace of the eugenics and mass-sterilization programs as a pc and "humane" way to address the "undesirables" of society, and can name similar situations beyond land and time whereby intent is disguised with the sanitization of verbiage. My moral view (and run on tirade) is that attempting to derail valid political discourse by muddying what's really being said, turning it into a game of who can trick who into seeming to care most by spouting the most drivel, with the least content, is wrong.

quick answer; etiquette is etiquette, the word already exists. PC is wrong.
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