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So what the point of feminism?
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16
Feminism in the 1840s-1980s was good, it served its purpose.
However, there is increasingly little purpose for feminism as women now have equivalent legal rights, discrimination is legally actionable, workplace harassment and domestic abuse are no longer tolerated, etc.

Many current disparities can be alternatively explained without an explanation of "patriarchy." For example, gender disparity in sciences can be a result of women freely choosing to not enter certain fields; and this may not even really be a problem. It's pretty unrealistic to expect equal numbers of men and women in the same profession. You just cannot legislate women engineers into existence.

This is why the cadre of activists at universities must continually find something wrong in order to justify their gender studies departments. Hence the increasingly bilious, hyperbolically outraged scrutiny of pointless things like entertainment. It really doesn't matter how many gender bender characters are required in movies, tv and video games - entertainment has no conclusive effect on actual people.


ILuvCats11 wrote:

What if men were supose to be better then women in the first place... like, men are stronger and emotionally stronger Jesus was a man...

I think men may be stronger, but women are certainly tougher.
Posted 3/2/16


Well, I being devil advocate here. Thought I will like to know if I am wrong or right? Because you did mention I am Technically correct but then you brought all that other stuff up. Is my argument in a grey area or what?
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Posted 3/2/16

KarenAraragi wrote:



Well, I being devil advocate here. Thought I will like to know if I am wrong or right? Because you did mention I am Technically correct but then you brought all that other stuff up. Is my argument in a grey area or what?


Well, that's the thing: you're both wrong and right. Right, in that we have a word for equal rights, but wrong in that feminism should not have branded itself as separate. Historically speaking, as I mentioned, the two struggles have often worked in parallel, not together.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16

MarquisBlack wrote:

A very well-thought out and equally well-presented post that was too long to quote.


This is a high quality post that I didn't think I'd see from CR forums, thank you for that. You provided good background and reason as well as solid explanation for the evolution of the movement over history. That was very educational. While your post is more than agreeable to me, I would also partly blame the extremes being presented in media and other channels. I do think the whole feminism thing at its roots is probably not a bad thing, but today we just hear too much about it to the point where people are being bombarded by ideas of "feminism" that is arguably not so "grey" anymore, but starting to infringe on the basic egalitarianism ideals.

I think equality is a great thing, but I would also agree that people should be paid or rather, rewarded based on their ability to generate output or results. Women may be inherently "less-advantaged" than men at a number of tasks, but back to the point of where the notion stands today, I think people are attacking feminism for its wrongly publicized extremes. We have a lot of sources to blame for that, not necessarily just those fanatics who blindly demand rights for women just because women are women. I do think that is absurd and not reasonable. However, we should recognize at the same time that what started out as the movement towards giving women more rights that men had always been privileged to is not in of itself an evil idea. It's just being used too much as a convenient excuse today and where it is being abused, it can be quite sickening to watch for others, especially if they are firm believers of equality across everything.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16
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What's the point of anything in this world?
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16
Feminism wouldn't need to exist if people would just grow the fuck up and stop living in the dark ages. Men and women should be equal. Too bad there are still plenty of assholes who see women as property.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16

Madhatter8 wrote:

The problem with feminism is that men and women are not equal and never will be. Now i agree that they should get paid the same as a man would at a particular job, The problem is that when you get to the military and such, you can't lower the standards of the training. There is a reason nobody watches the WNBA. There are some things that women can't do better then men. They can however clean a kitchen better than a man, or raise a kid better. JK LMAO

Sandwich. Now.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16

Madhatter8 wrote:
Now i agree that they should get paid the same as a man would at a particular job, The problem is that when you get to the military and such, you can't lower the standards of the training. TLMAO


But they do, leastwise Canada does. And frankly I always found it insulting women are given an easier ride in the CAF. Their physical standards are almost half of what I had to pass. Even during BMQ they don't have to pass the same level of tests a male does. They are literally allowed to perform worse than their male counterparts and still get paid the same.

That shit isn't equal rights, that shit is Female dominance.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16

Madhatter8 wrote:

The problem with feminism is that men and women are not equal and never will be. Now i agree that they should get paid the same as a man would at a particular job, The problem is that when you get to the military and such, you can't lower the standards of the training. There is a reason nobody watches the WNBA. There are some things that women can't do better then men. They can however clean a kitchen better than a man, or raise a kid better. JK LMAO


First off, I don't actually know if you're joking or not, so for the sake of argument, I've chosen to believe you aren't. If you are, I apologise for misreading the tone of your argument.

Here's the thing: there is no historical evidence of female inferiority in virtually any field where men are traditionally dominant. You brought up the military, so let's deal with that particular nugget.

In China, there's the story of Sun Tzu (remember him?) training an entire harem of the Emperor's concubines into soldiers, as proof he could make anyone into an effective military unit. According to the Chinese's own histories (which are notoriously misogynistic), Sun Tzu managed to train them to be the equal of any man.

In Greece, there was the tradition of the Amazons (remember them?): fearless warrior women who cut off one breast because it interfered with their archery prowess. Their defeat by Bellerophon, and their later war against Athens was used often in Ancient Greece as an achievement, not a predictable result. By the by, some sources indicate this matriarchal group may have existed in the area that today comprises modern-day Iran.

Also in Classical Greece, the deity of Strategy and Wisdom was...? Athena. Yep.

Later, in the Early Middle Ages, we have the Vikings -- notorious raiders, who also happened to have one of the most progressive societies in Europe at the time. Not only were women allowed to take part in raids (with female remains found in battles the Vikings waged against the Rus; although, arguably, this may have a been a settlement-to-settlement situation), one of their great heroes, Ragnar, was at one point saved by the infamous pirate queen Lagertha.

I could keep going, but I think I've written enough walls of text as to make anyone shake their heads in condescension.


alicia-m wrote:


MarquisBlack wrote:

A very well-thought out and equally well-presented post that was too long to quote.




The idea of meritocratic pay is not a bad one, but also full of dangers (just like anything, really). Consider this scenario:

Employee A of Company 1 works 8 hours a day before going home.
Employee B of Company 1 works 9 hours a day before going home.

Depending on how you quantify "results," Employee B is definitely the more productive one, right? For the sake of this argument, let's say he is.

As a result of Employee B's hard work, Employee A's salary gets docked due to Employee B setting new productivity standards within the company. Employee A now has to put in 9 hours of work to get the base salary that he previously earned at 8.

Illegal, you might say: and yet this does happen, particularly in countries where "output" is valued more than "results."

But let's go for the more feasible, likely route in our Western nations: that Employee B's salary rises, and Employee A's stays the same.

But now let's say that Employee B is a man, and Employee A is a woman.

Employee A works now 9 hours a day to match Employee B's productivity (because she's a loyal company worker). By meritocratic logic, she should earn exactly the same as Employee B.

However, based on current gender legislation worldwide, companies are not obligated to do any such thing. They could choose to give Employee B a 50% wage increase and Employee A a 25% increase, even if both produce exactly the same.

That's where the problem arises. That's where feminism seeks to redress the balance. If we could implement a meritocratic system that rewarded both genders (and hell, let's throw in ethnicities too, all things considered) equally for the same amount of work, that would definitely be aligned with feminist goals.
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Yeah when you put it that way Ranwolf you are correct. You are going to see that soon in the US, as women fail to be special ops and such. Call me old fashion but i dont think women should be in the armed services to begin with, but that's just me. If i was in the military and a women and I were in a combat situation. I would obviously try to keep her out of harms way, but that is just the natural instinct of man.

Also love the pic Yuri the best tales hero yet. Have you played Zestiria yet.
Although Xillia is my favorite
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/7/16
What feminism is:

* The idea that calling a group of women collectively "bitches" is wrong
* The idea that raping anyone is not right or excusable
* The right to be treated as a human being, and not property/the ability to make our own decisions/be treated as more than eye candy
* The idea that a woman with the right credentials for a job should not be passed over for a man with no credentials, simply because he is male
* The right to discuss whether or not a work treats women with respect (and the right for other feminists to disagree)
* Artwork by women recieving an equal (not more) attention as work by men
* The inclusion of non-white, non-Christian, and transgender women alongside affluent white women
* A group of men, women, and others who are so varied and many that we don't all agree on everything

What feminism is not:

* Female superiority/desire to kill and enslave men (or anyone, really)
* The idea that any group that has been victimized is competing for who has it worse (and that only the one being treated the worst matters)
* The idea that you cannot call one specific individual woman a bitch because she is being a jerk for no justifiable reason
* The idea that women are flawless and cannot be disagreed with
* A group of people who faint at the idea of sex and violence (I am female and I have watched/enjoyed many violent series, as have many of my friends-- I also have male friends who are very squeamish about sex and violence, so there you go)
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16

MarquisBlack wrote:



In China, there's the story of Sun Tzu (remember him?) training an entire harem of the Emperor's concubines into soldiers, as proof he could make anyone into an effective military unit. According to the Chinese's own histories (which are notoriously misogynistic), Sun Tzu managed to train them to be the equal of any man.



He trained them to understand parade drill not combat tactics mate. And most men would struggle under the weight of the full plate and heavy shields Chinese troops carried unless properly trained and strengthened from basically childhood. Not to mention the heavy crossbows the Chinese prefered over bows. Fighting, especially at melee range requires an endurance and a physicality most women simply lack. Even to this day the weight of a full combat load remains too much for some men. I have only seen a few women out of the thousands that apply to the CAF actually pass the male standard of physical training. Some even struggle with the lowered standard for women.
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16

Madhatter8 wrote:

Yeah when you put it that way Ranwolf you are correct. You are going to see that soon in the US, as women fail to be special ops and such. Call me old fashion but i dont think women should be in the armed services to begin with, but that's just me. If i was in the military and a women and I were in a combat situation. I would obviously try to keep her out of harms way, but that is just the natural instinct of man.

Also love the pic Yuri the best tales hero yet. Have you played Zestiria yet.
Although Xillia is my favorite


Yeah, me and a US Ranger had that talk when I was in Afghanistan. He seemed to get a kick out of the female soldiers us Canadians had.

And no I haven't played Zestiria yet..My PS4 died on me a week ago and I've yet to replace it.
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Yeah i agree MarquisBlack but the problem is women of those eras are completely different then the women in our era.

Also i was joking. Feminism nowadays is just a political game for democrats.
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