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So what the point of feminism?
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Posted 3/2/16
I like to call it double standards.

Feminist woman: Hits male.
Male: About to hit back from reflex.
Feminist woman: "You're going to hit a woman?"
Male: "If you want to be treated on equal terms with males, yes."
Feminist woman: "But we're women, you don't hit women."

Obviously this is just something I made up and not to be taken really serious, but gives an idea of just some people out there.
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Posted 3/2/16

Freddy96NO wrote:


fairy_tail175 wrote:
Not all feminists are assholes though…
I think most of us know, but many would say atleast if you are you most likely over the year taken in some radical/false claims/info from others either by other feminists/friends/groupes (hench gender studies) -__-



I agree with that. I think that before a feminist makes a claim to information they should look into it and make sure it is completely accurate. Because it is obvious people will lie to try and support cause.


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Posted 3/2/16

fairy_tail175 wrote:


Freddy96NO wrote:


fairy_tail175 wrote:
Not all feminists are assholes though…
I think most of us know, but many would say atleast if you are you most likely over the year taken in some radical/false claims/info from others either by other feminists/friends/groupes (hench gender studies) -__-



I agree with that. I think that before a feminist makes a claim to information they should look into it and make sure it is completely accurate. Because it is obvious people will lie to try and support cause.


I can get behind this sentiment. Educated discourse is valuable; uneducated discourse is not.

However, allowances must be made for people making mistakes -- as long as they accept responsibility.
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Posted 3/2/16

KarenAraragi wrote:


er I am going to b

Here some questions here for you guys.
Why does feminists have such a bad stigma?
What exactly when wrong with it?
Why does feminists let the crazies go uncheck? Unchallenged ?
What can be done to fix feminism?
Is there anything you hate about feminism?
Is there anything you like about feminism?



1. Because you have idiots who scream at everything as a trigger warning or some kind of misogynist message when it comes to women. I mean, not saying there's not any problems in those fields, but screaming about how you don't like some naked girl with tits in a video game is not feminism. Ain't nobody got time for that

2. It's not that it went wrong, it's just the very same people that I described above have given it a bad name. Also...you call yourself a feminist, you should be not only supporting white women but POC and LBGT as well and a lot of so-called feminists don't wanna be bothered. So much for equality

3. Something something freedom of speech? I mean, I consider myself a feminist, but people like the very ones that I've described made me seriously leave this scene. I can't fight the good fight for ALL people no matter the gender or color you are if you're screaming about trigger warnings.

4. I really don't know. I know and understand why people think it's all crazies, but there is some good writers on the subject out there(and it's not all FUCK MEN): Roxanne Gay, Kim Gordon... Bust magazine is pretty good too.

And it sucks because people are gonna be like, 'GO AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY YOU SJW LIBTARD FEMINIST AND GET RAEPED"


5. I don't hate feminism. I hate some of the supporters that make the sane ones TRYING to fight look ridiculous.

6. I want equality for EVERYBODY. You do you, no matter what your gender/sex/religion/whateverthefuckthekidscallitnowadays...and I like reading abotu women in history so...

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Posted 3/2/16

Nogara-san wrote:

1. Because you have idiots who scream at everything as a trigger warning or some kind of misogynist message when it comes to women. I mean, not saying there's not any problems in those fields, but screaming about how you don't like some naked girl with tits in a video game is not feminism. Ain't nobody got time for that

2. It's not that it went wrong, it's just the very same people that I described above have given it a bad name. Also...you call yourself a feminist, you should be not only supporting white women but POC and LBGT as well and a lot of so-called feminists don't wanna be bothered. So much for equality

3. Something something freedom of speech? I mean, I consider myself a feminist, but people like the very ones that I've described made me seriously leave this scene. I can't fight the good fight for ALL people no matter the gender or color you are if you're screaming about trigger warnings.

4. I really don't know. I know and understand why people think it's all crazies, but there is some good writers on the subject out there(and it's not all FUCK MEN): Roxanne Gay, Kim Gordon... Bust magazine is pretty good too.

And it sucks because people are gonna be like, 'GO AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY YOU SJW LIBTARD FEMINIST AND GET RAEPED"


5. I don't hate feminism. I hate some of the supporters that make the sane ones TRYING to fight look ridiculous.

6. I want equality for EVERYBODY. You do you, no matter what your gender/sex/religion/whateverthefuckthekidscallitnowadays...and I like reading abotu women in history so...



I feel like I'm in Twilight Zone because the instances of the term "feminism" and "feminist" could just as easily be replaced by "Christianity" and "Christians" (with exception of trigger warnings, which are N/A)
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Posted 3/2/16
Female Supremacy
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Posted 3/2/16

MarquisBlack wrote:

1. And that's the problem, mate. See below.

2. Let it be noted I never advocated for tyranny. I have no earthly idea why you even went there.

3. I wish that were true. I really, really wish it were, but unfortunately (and forgive me for any offense I may cause) you're being naive. What's worse, I get the feeling you honestly believe your actions do not impact us.

Discourse in the north has no impact on the south? If it weren't such an erroneous statement, I'd honestly laugh. Consider this: where are the world's best universities? Where are the world's highest standards of living? Where are the opportunities? Spoiler alert: it's not in the Global South if you don't have money.

There's a reason why illegal immigrants go to the US and Europe, after all.

And so here's the problem: our standards for "civilised" societies are YOURS. We measure ourselves in comparison to Europe, the US, and Canada! Our elites get sent there for study! And when they do, what do you think they hear, when people argue against feminism? They hear validation of centuries of gender discrimination! And then they come back, and end up ruling our countries! My current president is a Catholic fundamentalist who has defunded our Institute for Culture and donated millions of state money to the Catholic Church. He then proceeded to gut sexual education in our schools and for Carnaval (when most pregnancies happen in this country), which is only being alleviated because teachers and media outlets decided to ignore him and educate people anyway! Guess where he studied? Georgia Tech. Do you know whose policies his match the most? THE SOUTH.

And that's just Latin America (and Panama, for the specific case)!

For Africa, it gets exponentially worse, because American and European ideologies that have no home back in their home countries (and can't communicate in Spanish, thank goodness) get exported there, as ended up being the case of Uganda, whose lax anti-LGBT laws went into overdrive after AMERICAN evangelists came and riled up the people there. You don't need to take my word for it: Google it.

Face it: we get your reject ideologies exported to us, and it's the poor who end up suffering from these ridiculous ideas. This is no longer the 14th century: this is a globalised world we live in, and whenever you Northerners do something repressive or retrograde, it invariably ends up ruining our day down South.


2) I went there because authoritarianism is often the "feminist solution" to common problems. I explained that quite clearly.

3) You misread. I did not say that things that happen in the north doesn't effect the south, I said that feminism in the north doesn't really concern itself with the south. The feminism that is around here doesn't do anything but pay occasional lip-service to the problems outside of the north. That is one of the huge issues people have with modern feminism. It spends so much time focusing on trivial BS and largely ignoring the parts of the world where there are actually issues.

And again, feminism is not the only form women's rights advocacy can take.
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Posted 3/2/16
Alright, last post of the night, simply because it's midnight, I have classes to teach in the morning, and it wouldn't be fair to the students to show up half-asleep.

2. This assumes that your brand of feminism is the most common one, which it isn't. Most feminism actually advocates legal reforms to close loopholes that allow abusers and such to get away with their crimes, as has been the case in most of the world. See post by Nogara-san for examples of non-misandrist feminist writers.

3. Really?


sundin13 wrote:3). Again, I am speaking about my corner of the world and third wave feminism. It seems that we stand on far too different ground to have a conversation of this nature, but I will gladly defend or explain my beliefs about the way feminism in this corner of the world works. Anti-feminist rhetoric here does nothing to hurt women in your corner of the world, as feminsm here does little to help women in your corner of the world. I think virtually everybody realizes that the there are places around the world where women's rights are needed, we just don't believe that the feminism we see is a solution (and bear in mind that feminism is not the only form of women's rights advocacy).


Bolded the specific reference.

To reiterate: yes, it does. When, in January 22, 2001, President George W. Bush imposed the global gag rule that prevented the American state from funding foreign NGOs that provided abortion services or even just information about abortion, he knowingly gutted hundreds of global women's rights organisations' ability to help at-risk women worldwide ( [urlhttp://www.ncjw.org/content_518.cfm. When we look to the Northern Hemisphere, we equate what happens there as the "path to take," so to speak. Thus, when the anti-feminist rhetoric gains ground over there, it gains ground over here. When feminism takes root, and we start seeing parades and celebrations after pro-feminist rulings are announced, it gives traction to movements over here, as we're able to tell our countrymen, "see? this is the modern world. We can do better." It's not only confined to women's rights, either -- it's the same logic we use to push for LGBTQ+ rights as well.

Fortunately for our own women, we've grown our feminist movements locally, meaning we're not dependent on Northern feminists for ideology, but any setbacks in the north do trickle down to the Global South. They always do -- it's a natural consequence of a globalised world where the Global North basically holds the economic cards.

And again: any support for women's rights is feminism, whether you want to call it that or not, because that's what most of the world calls it. Call it whatever other name you want, but for most of the world, it's feminism.
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Posted 3/2/16
I saw a funny tweet, i forget who it was by but it went something along the lines of;
"i agree in equality for men and women, but seeing as no one seems to care about reducing the rate of suicides in men, we neen more female suicide so that it can be equal!"
Jus tthought i'd throw this in here
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16

MarquisBlack wrote:

Alright, last post of the night, simply because it's midnight, I have classes to teach in the morning, and it wouldn't be fair to the students to show up half-asleep.

2. This assumes that your brand of feminism is the most common one, which it isn't. Most feminism actually advocates legal reforms to close loopholes that allow abusers and such to get away with their crimes, as has been the case in most of the world. See post by Nogara-san for examples of non-misandrist feminist writers.

3. Really?


sundin13 wrote:3). Again, I am speaking about my corner of the world and third wave feminism. It seems that we stand on far too different ground to have a conversation of this nature, but I will gladly defend or explain my beliefs about the way feminism in this corner of the world works. Anti-feminist rhetoric here does nothing to hurt women in your corner of the world, as feminsm here does little to help women in your corner of the world. I think virtually everybody realizes that the there are places around the world where women's rights are needed, we just don't believe that the feminism we see is a solution (and bear in mind that feminism is not the only form of women's rights advocacy).


Bolded the specific reference.

To reiterate: yes, it does. When, in January 22, 2001, President George W. Bush imposed the global gag rule that prevented the American state from funding foreign NGOs that provided abortion services or even just information about abortion, he knowingly gutted hundreds of global women's rights organisations' ability to help at-risk women worldwide. When we look to the Northern Hemisphere, we equate what happens there as the "path to take," so to speak. Thus, when the anti-feminist rhetoric gains ground over there, it gains ground over here. When feminism takes root, and we start seeing parades and celebrations after pro-feminist rulings are announced, it gives traction to movements over here, as we're able to tell our countrymen, "see? this is the modern world. We can do better." It's not only confined to women's rights, either -- it's the same logic we use to push for LGBTQ+ rights as well.

Fortunately for our own women, we've grown our feminist movements locally, meaning we're not dependent on Northern feminists for ideology, but any setbacks in the north do trickle down to the Global South. They always do -- it's a natural consequence of a globalised world where the Global North basically holds the economic cards.

And again: any support for women's rights is feminism, whether you want to call it that or not, because that's what most of the world calls it. Call it whatever other name you want, but for most of the world, it's feminism.


2) In my corner of the world, again, the feminism that has the strongest effects is the same feminism that is pushing for authoritarian practices.

3) See, again, the problem is that feminism is not synonymous with women's rights. Feminism is a specific ideology and a specific belief system (conflating the two is like saying anyone who is religious is a christian). You can believe in women's rights and equality without being a feminist. What Bush did is not "anti-feminist rhetoric", its just republicanism. When I spoke of "anti-feminist rhetoric", I was mostly talking about people who come out and criticize feminism aka people being anti feminist, not people doing things that feminists don't agree with. That is a huge puddle as feminists don't really like much of anything.

Maybe me saying that third world feminism as is appears in the US is authoritarian and radical is somehow harmful to women in your corner of the world, but even if it somehow is, that doesn't mean people should stop criticizing all of the really shitty parts of feminism...
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Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16
Feminism is supposed to be about women's rights, but it seems that people confuse it for feminazism, which is gender-based superiority.
Posted 3/2/16 , edited 3/2/16

relt95 wrote:

The problem with feminism is that it focuses on WOMEN'S rights rather than on PEOPLE'S rights. While that wouldn't normally be a problem, feminism takes women's rights too far by getting rid of other people's rights in the process. Feminism says it's purpose is gender equality, but giving women rights while taking away men's rights isn't equality, it's favoritism.


I don't really mind being gendercentric. There are problems that affect a great deal of women more than men, though I believe Karen was mocking third wave westernized feminism. Let's be honest, a great deal of women in developing countries are still discriminated against for being women. Feminism movements in those countries have been waged for quite some time, but in need of work. I also believe that slut shaming in western society is mean spirited. It is naturally to care about problems that affect only you, as selfish as this be, but believing that feminism should be "for both rights" is to undermine the movement. See, I'm not against egalitarianism, but I believe this whole "What about men" thing undermines the fact that women are solely discriminate against for being women, thus it make sense to take a gendercentric approach to it.

Also, "You don't fit within my narrow parameters of sexual conduct specifically FOR YOUR GENDER, therefore, you're a whore." Once you realize that developing countries do this too, it feels all sorts of wrong.
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Posted 3/2/16
to start flame wars
Posted 3/2/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


relt95 wrote:

The problem with feminism is that it focuses on WOMEN'S rights rather than on PEOPLE'S rights. While that wouldn't normally be a problem, feminism takes women's rights too far by getting rid of other people's rights in the process. Feminism says it's purpose is gender equality, but giving women rights while taking away men's rights isn't equality, it's favoritism.


I don't really mind being gendercentric. There are problems that affect a great deal of women more than men, though I believe Karen was mocking third wave westernized feminism. Let's be honest, a great deal of women in developing countries are still discriminated against for being women. Feminism movements in those countries have been waged for quite some time, but in need of work. I also believe that slut shaming in western society is mean spirited. It is naturally to care about problems that affect only you, as selfish as this be, but believing that feminism should be "for both rights" is to undermine the movement. See, I'm not against egalitarianism, but I believe this whole "What about men" thing undermines the fact that women are solely discriminate against for being women, thus it make sense to take a gendercentric approach to it.

Also, "You don't fit within my narrow parameters of sexual conduct specifically FOR YOUR GENDER, therefore, you're a whore." Once you realize that developing countries do this too, it feels all sorts of wrong.


Yes, I am but I will like to add this. I don't have a problem with the group of women trying to help only women rights. The problem I have is when your priorities negatively affect me. When you disregard the consequences of your actions in order to fulfill your views.
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