First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Post Reply #WTFU - Is TV Tokyo ruining Anime?
14652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / US of A
Offline
Posted 3/16/16
Now Tv Tokyo and other companies do have a right to protect their property, but the way that Youtube had it's copyright system set up, there is no way (that I know of) that penalizes false claims. An example would be that entire mess between I Hate Everything and this one guy who (ironically) made a bad movie about cyber bullying. I'm not going to white all the stuff that happened, but basically the claim was wrong and it's hard to get help from YouTube's staff. I remember Chibi Reviews was hit by a claim when he was just talking about the snow on his front yard. No clips used.

Anyway, I'm just tired of this topic and think YouTube should do more investigation or make it so that companies who really own the property can back up their claims sooner.
10647 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Rabbit Horse
Online
Posted 3/16/16
they're abusing the flag system. why? because they can, and they know the reviewers can do nothing about the false claims.
24306 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Various
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
With all of this stuff, my question is, why are people making money off of anime reviews on Youtube?

If there's this much outrage over it, a lot of them are probably making more money than the people who actually make the anime. That's something worth being upset about.

The people freaking out about this seem to value these reviews/AMVs/doujinshi/whatever more than the actual anime. That is a problem.
30793 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Fraxinus
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16

LavenderMintRose wrote:
With all of this stuff, my question is, why are people making money off of anime reviews on Youtube?

If there's this much outrage over it, a lot of them are probably making more money than the people who actually make the anime. That's something worth being upset about.

The people freaking out about this seem to value these reviews/AMVs/doujinshi/whatever more than the actual anime. That is a problem.


Good one.

Oh... You weren't making a joke?

Making any sort of decent money on YouTube is a task in and off itself. For anime reviewers to make money rivalling that of the actual creators of the anime borders on wild, crazy dreams. And considering for many people YouTube is actually their sole source of income, getting a barrage false copyright claims essentially stealing away potential revenue is something content creators should be outraged about. Getting a barrage of copyright strikes, with no way to defend against them, even if they are false, thus essentially crippling a channel, is very much something to be outraged about. Whatever you think of reviewers, writing up review upon review, making video upon video, and editing it all into something watchable is time consuming, and not something to take so incredibly lightly, as if it's "not a real job". What makes it any different from reviews in the form of articles. Anyway...

When reviews with clips spanning seconds get copyright claimed, that is clearly a major issue. Is a five or ten second clip going to ruin the entire anime? Does that equate to these reviewers taking that content and representing it as their own? No. Of course not. They're using clips, or even just images to make their reviews more than just them standing in front of a camera. Why should a review on YouTube be deemed to be breaching copyright when on any other medium it wouldn't? It's not even an issue exclusive to anime reviews. The problem is YouTube's broken automated system, which basically equates to guilty until proven innocent.

Sure, losing money may be part of the complaints, but the abuse of the system, with no punishment for doing so, is the bigger one, and you shouldn't just write it off as content creators whining over not raking in the cash, because the vast majority don't, in the first place.
24306 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Various
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
..... do you know how much animators in Japan make?

Look it up. It's nowhere near what you seem to think.

Even if a reviewer makes half of what animators make, per minute of video, that's a problem. It's a problem how a lot of anime fans seem to value derivative works over original works - whether those originals are major anime productions or smaller scale things, there are always far more people defending the makers of derivative works than makers of the originals.
35059 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16

LavenderMintRose wrote:

With all of this stuff, my question is, why are people making money off of anime reviews on Youtube?


Advertisers are aware that people are willing to put up with their nonsense to get to reviewers' videos, so reviewers have a source of income from ad revenue. There are also people who so appreciate and enjoy the creative work of reviewers that they're willing to donate money toward continued work and reviewers' living expenses, so reviewers have a second source of income from that. It's a non-traditional job for certain, and it's highly unstable besides, but it is a legitimate job. People are getting things they want for their money or time.


If there's this much outrage over it, a lot of them are probably making more money than the people who actually make the anime. That's something worth being upset about.


As far as I'm aware the top earner YouTube has is Felix Kjelberg (PewDiePie), producing somewhere around $12 million in income according to Business Insider. He presently has just shy of 43 million subscribers and draws revenue from millions of views on about 2,700 videos. Now, obviously not everyone is PewDiePie, but Kjelberg at least offers us a rough idea of where the ceiling is. We can use subscriber counts, video counts, and view counts to get a rough estimate of where people are relative to this ceiling.

Tristain Gallant (Arkada) boasts a relatively successful anime review channel called Glass Reflection. It currently has 369,585 subscribers and 261 videos. Mr. Gallant's viewership dips and rises as anyone's would, but typical figures seem to be somewhere around 100-300,000 per review. Bennett White (Bennett the Sage) has another relatively successful anime review channel, but its subscriber base is significantly smaller at 41,291 with 196 videos. His viewership is somewhere around 50-60,000 views per review, though again there are dips and swells. Jacob Hope Chapman (Jesuotaku) is another example, and currently sits at 23,599 subscribers and 137 videos. He hasn't posted any new reviews for years now (which likely explains the low subscriber count), but the viewership records are there nevertheless and seem to hover around about 30,000 views per review. Anime Podcast America drives those figures back up again at 299,027 subscribers, 484 videos, but its view counts are typically somewhere around 20-30,000. And, of course, there is the humble UsagiRoll podcast produced by the lovely users on this very site that has viewership figures at around 50-100 per video.

As you can see there is a lot of variation in what anime reviewers on YouTube can expect to get out of their work, and even combined these channels are nowhere near the ceiling that Kjelberg has set. It's inconceivable that they're generating the sort of revenue that Kjelberg is. Many of the people who review things on YouTube are only barely making enough between advertising revenue and donations to online accounts to continue to work full time on their video projects, and YouTubers having side jobs or posting videos only as a hobby is hardly unheard of. Given the subscriber/video counts and viewership of the above channels I find it extremely unlikely that YouTube reviewing is a more profitable enterprise than producing and distributing anime. I'm not sure how you actually arrived at that conclusion. Is there some gargantuan anime reviewing channel generating millions in revenue that I've somehow managed to miss?

http://www.businessinsider.com/youtube-stars-who-make-the-most-money-2015-10

Edit: I see that you're specifically concerned about animators, but it's not reviewers' income that sets Japanese and Korean animators' wages. There's no connection between these things, so I don't understand why it should be inappropriate to hold the position that animators should be paid more and reviewers' income is legitimately earned.


The people freaking out about this seem to value these reviews/AMVs/doujinshi/whatever more than the actual anime. That is a problem.


That's not really it, though. The outrage you're seeing is not a product of copyright holders rightfully taking away their cash cows from conniving thieves who've been taking milk without permission or compensation for far too long. The outrage is a result of some copyright holders denying the public its due right to fair use of works for the purposes of commentary, critique, and satire. That right is part and parcel of the deal society made with copyright holders when it was agreed that the latter would be granted copyrights in the first place, and it is perfectly fair to cry foul when that right is denied by copyright holders. Intellectual property rights are not unlimited.
24306 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Various
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16
Still not my point.

This is the sort of "anime makers' income" that I was referring to. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-01-05/xebec-animator-posts-monthly-paystub-of-131330-yen-usd1103/.97242

$1,103 a month. For unlimited work hours. "As much as you can in 24 hours" is the official description of this person's work hours.

The article says that the average income for animators in Japan is ~$27,000/year in USD.

Also, from the perspective of the whole production, making anime does not make money. This is the sort of business where one or two series a year make a ton of money and the profit from that is used to fund the rest, which lose money. If you think anime directors are living like Hollywood directors, well, I don't know, maybe a few of them are, but most of them are not.

I had no idea PewDiePie made that much. I was going off of the assumption that "making a living" means just a bit over that average salary for animators, which barely counts as making a living.

Financially, it seems, the people who want to actually make anime would be better off quitting animation school and just making anime reviews. If they learn English and post on American websites, they'd probably get more than enough viewers just because they live in Japan.

My point is that everyone is always jumping up to defend the "fans'" right to make a living off of derivative works, but they don't seem to understand what kind of money is actually in anime. People seem to think anime productions make Hollywood-level money, but they don't.

I'm not begrudging anyone's making a living - whether it's youtubers, reality show stars, pro sports players, badly written book series, etc. ... I don't have anything against them, but I do sort of cringe at the audiences that enable them...
35059 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16

LavenderMintRose wrote:

Still not my point.

This is the sort of "anime makers' income" that I was referring to. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-01-05/xebec-animator-posts-monthly-paystub-of-131330-yen-usd1103/.97242

$1,103 a month. For unlimited work hours. "As much as you can in 24 hours" is the official description of this person's work hours.

The article says that the average income for animators in Japan is ~$27,000/year in USD.

Also, from the perspective of the whole production, making anime does not make money. This is the sort of business where one or two series a year make a ton of money and the profit from that is used to fund the rest, which lose money. If you think anime directors are living like Hollywood directors, well, I don't know, maybe a few of them are, but most of them are not.

I had no idea PewDiePie made that much. I was going off of the assumption that "making a living" means just a bit over that average salary for animators, which barely counts as making a living.

Financially, it seems, the people who want to actually make anime would be better off quitting animation school and just making anime reviews. If they learn English and post on American websites, they'd probably get more than enough viewers just because they live in Japan.

My point is that everyone is always jumping up to defend the "fans'" right to make a living off of derivative works, but they don't seem to understand what kind of money is actually in anime. People seem to think anime productions make Hollywood-level money, but they don't.

I'm not begrudging anyone's making a living - whether it's youtubers, reality show stars, pro sports players, badly written book series, etc. ... I don't have anything against them, but I do sort of cringe at the audiences that enable them...


So the root of the complaint is that you're not seeing equivalent outrage over animators' wages as you're seeing for denial of fair use for reviewers, and you're not seeing equivalent financial commitment to the cause of upholding reviewers' and animators' living expenses. It's not that you feel reviewers' income shouldn't exist or that their work isn't legitimate, but rather that you personally feel donations would be better directed toward animators than reviewers since animators are the reason there is anime to review to begin with.

Is that right?

Edit:

That seems to be it given your edit. So I looked around a bit, and there seems to be a labour union for the animation industry of Japan that has about 1,100 members. That might present an avenue for improving things if they get more aggressive. Do you know if Japan protects the right to strike and hold walkouts, or the extent to which Japanese animation studios are closed shops?

Edit 2:

I haven't found the extent of closed shops in Japan, but it seems that Article 28 of the Japanese constitution protects the right to strike as part of general protections for worker solidarity. Walkouts and striking, depending upon the protection agreements between labourers and animation studios, may therefore present a viable avenue for improving wages.
24306 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Various
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
It's not that I want there to be more outrage over anything.

First of all, striking would do nothing. Anime isn't a necessary product, like public transit or phone service or something (thinking of recent strikes I remember from where I live). If the animators tried to strike, there would just not be any anime. The anime producers do not make the money to pay them more, they cut costs a ton as it is, and in the meantime, while they're striking the animation studios would still owe rent on their offices and such, and since they're not making product, they wouldn't be making an income to pay that rent. So no, a strike would not solve that problem.

Which is pretty much exactly my point - everything seems to be viewed in terms of the idea that there is some corporate bad guy who's rich and powerful and needs to be protested against, and that is simply not the case with anime. The suggestion of a strike assumes that someone has the money to pay them more and is just holding it back due to selfishness or something like that. But the reason anime creatives - from new animators to famous directors to mangaka to just about every name on the credits - is because the whole operation does not make that money.
Does it occur to these reviewers to just make their reviews without the clips? I've seen reviews done well without clips. They could use still images - you know, like print reviews do. That is, if the anime producers are really that upset about them using clips.
But it seems like it's a misunderstanding. It seems like Youtube's algorithm, or the producer's algorithm, or whoever's program to find illegal uploads of scenes and episodes of anime posted without modification, is accidentally catching reviews and things like that in that net, and sending takedown notices based on that. In that case, there's even less of a reason for outrage.
Did anyone try to make contact with these companies and ask whether it was an accident or not, or did everyone just cry "Free speech! Protest!" before that was attempted?

Instead, everyone gets up in arms about corporate bullying, and how dare they threaten the rights of fans to make a living off of their work.

Like the title of this thread - "Is TV Tokyo ruining anime?". Please explain to me how anime would be ruined by a lack of anime-review youtube channels. Not "the anime fandom," not "anime conventions," but anime itself. Because if the only point of anime's existence is so that youtubers can rank their top 10 openings/ending/fight scenes/ OTPs/whatever... that would be a problem.
30793 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Fraxinus
Offline
Posted 3/17/16

LavenderMintRose wrote:

It's not that I want there to be more outrage over anything.

First of all, striking would do nothing. Anime isn't a necessary product, like public transit or phone service or something (thinking of recent strikes I remember from where I live). If the animators tried to strike, there would just not be any anime. The anime producers do not make the money to pay them more, they cut costs a ton as it is, and in the meantime, while they're striking the animation studios would still owe rent on their offices and such, and since they're not making product, they wouldn't be making an income to pay that rent. So no, a strike would not solve that problem.

Which is pretty much exactly my point - everything seems to be viewed in terms of the idea that there is some corporate bad guy who's rich and powerful and needs to be protested against, and that is simply not the case with anime. The suggestion of a strike assumes that someone has the money to pay them more and is just holding it back due to selfishness or something like that. But the reason anime creatives - from new animators to famous directors to mangaka to just about every name on the credits - is because the whole operation does not make that money.
Does it occur to these reviewers to just make their reviews without the clips? I've seen reviews done well without clips. They could use still images - you know, like print reviews do. That is, if the anime producers are really that upset about them using clips.
But it seems like it's a misunderstanding. It seems like Youtube's algorithm, or the producer's algorithm, or whoever's program to find illegal uploads of scenes and episodes of anime posted without modification, is accidentally catching reviews and things like that in that net, and sending takedown notices based on that. In that case, there's even less of a reason for outrage.
Did anyone try to make contact with these companies and ask whether it was an accident or not, or did everyone just cry "Free speech! Protest!" before that was attempted?

Instead, everyone gets up in arms about corporate bullying, and how dare they threaten the rights of fans to make a living off of their work.

Like the title of this thread - "Is TV Tokyo ruining anime?". Please explain to me how anime would be ruined by a lack of anime-review youtube channels. Not "the anime fandom," not "anime conventions," but anime itself. Because if the only point of anime's existence is so that youtubers can rank their top 10 openings/ending/fight scenes/ OTPs/whatever... that would be a problem.


Maybe the title was a little out there, but people are getting up in arms about corporate bullying for good reason.

It's not a question of whether these claims are accidents or not. We full-on know some... nay... most anime companies are damn right malicious when it comes to their shows on YouTube. Why? Because the platform allows for that kind of abuse, and has done so for years, now, I believe. Even if we were to shift the blame wholly onto YouTube's system, at this point it should have definitely been overhauled. Your comments indicate that you seem to be under the assumption that this is just another case of people complaining for the hell of it; but when, in some cases, people's livelihoods are at stake, it's not just a hate mob of whiners who have nothing better to do.

And what, may I ask, is wrong with using small clips in video reviews? Should people stop because people are abusing a bad system and using it to bully content creators? That sounds like an awful philosophy to me. Yes, there are reviews that don't use images and clips that are done well, but using them shouldn't be an issue, either. It's not a copyright issue unless it's such a blatant attempt to just take that work and pass it off as their own. When you take into account that these people talk over these small clips that have no sound, it's a no brainer that there should be no issue. I mean, if there was a bully who consistently harassed everyone in a park, would your answer be to just stop going to that park? Yeah, it ends the issue, but why should the people not in the wrong have to be the ones to do all the work?

It sucks that making anime doesn't make as much money as it probably should, but I see no reason why that should lessen the validity of the work of reviewers, or the money earned doing it. You say it's not an issue of you wanting there to be more outrage for the companies than the reviewers, but that's exactly how your post comes off to me. Just because the actual creators of anime don't make that much money, doesn't mean the people who make money from reviews of such anime aren't entitled to complain when their content is being wrongfully claimed.
xxJing 
37213 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Duckburg
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
I've noticed that most people feel entitled to things. I have a friend for example who hates that McDonald's workers or whatever got high raises. He doesn't believe that they deserve them since his job is harder and he gets payed less. On the other hand, I think, well... Go work at McDonald's then, or get a raise. The workers managed to get their raises, they weren't just sitting around and McDonald's magically just felt like it should happen.

That sense of entitlement often also seems to transpire in corporations which seem to have a habit of focusing on short term profits rather than long term earnings. The law dictates that they have complete control over their ip and that they are entitled to any money generated by it. This usually leads people to be opportunistic trying to assume profits for all derivative works, even though derivative works usually are free advertising. It's basically like a company having you pay them for the work you did for them. Fair use tries to limit this opportunistic behavior, but companies try to find work arounds.

It's pretty obvious usually what derivative work will be harmful to your IP and which will be helpful. Even when the NostalgiaCritic says a movie is bad, it still makes people want to watch it, because even though it's bad, it's not boring. But, the default behavior is that sharing is wrong even if it is profitable in the long run.
24306 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Various
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16
YouTube is not obligated to host your videos. Youtube is also a private company. They can do what they want. Like someone else suggested, if you don't like their policies, take your content elsewhere. If your content is really that great, your audience will follow you and it'll be Youtube's loss.
It's not the same as going to a different park to avoid a physical bully, because in the case of a public park, the municipality and the police are obligated to protect you from harm. (though, honestly, if there were someone being nasty in a public place every time I went there, I would just go to a different public place). Youtube is not obligated to let you use its platform to make a living.

Also, you know... it's not Youtube's responsibility to protect your livelihood, and it's not TV Tokyo's or anyone else in Japan's responsibility either. It's yours. If you're an entrepreneur (which you are if you're making money off of youtube, unless youtube has hired you as an employee), it's your responsibility to have backup plans in case things like this happen.

I'm saying there should not be any outrage. If I were making a living entirely based on talking about someone else's work, and not making any work that isn't dependent on their work having an audience - a situation where my audience is, by definition, a subcategory of someone else's audience - and that other person told me to use less of their work, I would not call them a bully for that. After all, they're the ones writing stories and animating things. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2016-03-16/your-ultimate-guide-to-anime-ending-credits-part-i/.99852 < -- This is what they're bringing to the table, and then some. What am I bringing? "Top 10" of their work. "OMG I loved this" or "OMG I hated this"... of their work. That's what makes the reviewers' work less valid.
It's not about how much money anime does or doesn't make. It's about respect, and it's about not being antagonistic.

Here's the other thing - this isn't a journalistic issue. This is not, for example, a producer of a show with racist themes attacking or sabotaging reviewers who call out the racism in the show. This is not about some fact being silenced. This is a very minor issue. No, it's not wrong to use clips in reviews, but why is it so important that it's worth a huge fight? Why should people not in the wrong have to be the ones to do all the work? Because life's not always fair, because it's not really that much work, because it's your responsibility, not Youtube's, to protect your livelihood,

Also, aside from indignation at unfair enforcement of a rule, what value do the clips really bring to these videos? Are there real reasons why these reviewers' work would not be just as valid and complete in text with images as opposed to video?

My point is simply that, as "things in the world that are unfair" go, this is way, way down the ladder and not worth getting worked up over. The only reason I brought up the issue of animator pay is that it's clearly connected and the work that animators do is way more important, seeing as, as I said, the reviewers are dependent on the animators for things to review.


That sense of entitlement often also seems to transpire in corporations which seem to have a habit of focusing on short term profits rather than long term earnings.The law dictates that they have complete control over their ip and that they are entitled to any money generated by it. This usually leads people to be opportunistic trying to assume profits for all derivative works, even though derivative works usually are free advertising. It's basically like a company having you pay them for the work you did for them. Fair use tries to limit this opportunistic behavior, but companies try to find work arounds.


Please give me an instance where this has happened. When has an anime production company tried to get any profits out of derivative works made by others, much less all? When did they ask for money from the youtubers?
Also, that's not the purpose of fair use. The purpose of fair use is for journalism, scholarly work, parody, etc. - to continue the conversation after the work is made, not so that second person can make a profit off of the same work. Making a profit off of someone else's work is not protected, even under fair use.

It's not the anime companies that have a sense of entitlement here...

Edit 3/ another point: The issue of youtube's dominance of the video-streaming field and whether that gives them an obligation to have more of a proactive role in protecting their content providers. Really, it doesn't. But it should, to some extent. But it doesn't. That's really the problem with modern technology setups and social media sites. It's also the issue with Amazon and ebooks (and other things, too). That has nothing to do with the question of, "Is overly strict copyright enforcement ruining anime?", or even, "Is overly strict copyright enforcement in this specific situation something that needs to be fought against or something that needs to be adapted to?" (which, my answer to the latter is, "~20/80: Take up the issue calmly with the people who are actually involved in it - that is, through emails and such, not through making a public scene and demonizing the same people your channel exists to celebrate as if that makes sense - and, in the meantime, adapt and focus on what you want from your channel - whether that's profit, to get your opinions out, to promote your favorite series, etc., none of that requires using clips.")


Edit 4: removed edit 2 because edit 3 says the same thing but more succinctly.
30793 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Fraxinus
Offline
Posted 3/17/16 , edited 3/17/16
Sorry for snipping a lot of your post, I'm sure someone else will come along and dispute all of that, so I don't have to. Anyway...


LavenderMintRose wrote:

I'm saying there should not be any outrage. If I were making a living entirely based on talking about someone else's work, and not making any work that isn't dependent on their work having an audience - a situation where my audience is, by definition, a subcategory of someone else's audience - and that other person told me to use less of their work, I would not call them a bully for that. After all, they're the ones writing stories and animating things. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2016-03-16/your-ultimate-guide-to-anime-ending-credits-part-i/.99852 < -- This is what they're bringing to the table, and then some. What am I bringing? "Top 10" of their work. "OMG I loved this" or "OMG I hated this"... of their work. That's what makes the reviewers' work less valid.
It's not about how much money anime does or doesn't make. It's about respect, and it's about not being antagonistic.


Oh, good lord... Please... I will admit I make up more own mind about anime, but just because you and I may not find value in reviews when it comes to opinions, that doesn't mean others won't either. You're acting as if making reviews consistently is just a matter of standing in front of a camera and saying "I liked this. I hated this. Reasons," adding next to nothing to the clips used, and treating these intellectual properties of these companies as nothing more than coattails to ride on, to easy money. Secondly, reviews and top tens are not the same. And even then, there are some top ten YouTubers who put out legitimately decent top tens. And I implore you to find me one whose video is simply "OMG I loved this" and "OMG I hated this". Once again, it's legitimate work. Whether you appreciate it as such, or not, is irrelevant. It's disrespectful, mind you, but irrelevant, and as such, these people shouldn't be getting abused by these companies for doing nothing wrong, and potentially even losing their jobs due to the abusive system. Whether you consider it lesser work than that of the anime creators is irrelevant. That doesn't condone abusing the system to cripple a person's source of income.

Edit: At this point, it just seems to me like you feel as if no real work goes into reviews, or any critique based content, and that all it is is leeching off the success of the primary work. It's not like it takes time and effort to write up scripts, and edit videos. At this point what can this all be taken as but you being bitter towards these content creators for making, what you seem to believe to be, more money than the makers of the anime they're reviewing, which is rarely the case?
Humms 
10587 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / CAN, ON
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
So....... Im just going to say....... Good luck to all, because it doesn't matter. Good reviewer or not, without the content to provide you with a script, you are nothing, unless your create your own original content XD LMAO thats a good one these days, just the fact that most people can post anime videos to generate them views, ads, and profit without doing a dam thing except editing, syncing, and uploading. Sure work goes into making a video, but compared to the actual work that goes into making an anime, like holy shit man, no wonder they want to take this luxury away from people.
30793 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Fraxinus
Offline
Posted 3/17/16
I'm going to bed before I just devolve into immature insults.
First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.