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I am Proud....TO BE A SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR!!!
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Posted 3/19/16

runec wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
a) The point stands. Yes, the study was limited, but if there was actually a significant barrier when it comes to hiring, you would expect to see pretty much any result but that one. As for my "largest and most thorough study" comment, that was a statement in my experience of reading papers about STEM hiring practices. I couldn't find many, but the ones I did find were all much more limited than this study and did less in the way of controls.


So you were being disingenuous then by trying to make the study sound more important than it is?



sundin13 wrote:b) While there was one study done in UK, there are also studies showing that women tend to earn more in cities across the United States, Sweden and other areas in this age group. As for women earning less through other points of their life, as I said, life choices obviously play a huge role. 30s are when women begin to have kids, and often drop out of the work force for a number of years. This supports my hypothesis.


The study performed in the US found a similar trend but it only applies to major cities with the following features: A knowledge based economy, a local decline in manufacturing jobs ( traditionally male dominated industries going under ) or an increasing minority population. In cities without these trends, there was no such advantage and outside of major cities, there is no such advantage. In major cities that rely primarily on male dominated industries ( which includes the tech industry ), the trend goes the other way and woman make less across the board.

So no, it does not support your hypothesis as there are clearly more factors going on here than "life choices". The UK study also cited less opportunities for career advancement as one of the problems. Additionally, the US is one of only two countries in the world that hold the shameful distinction of not having any kind of paid maternity leave. So even your "life choices" argument is actually being aggravated in the US by poor social support programs.




sundin13 wrote:c) Annual income of teachers is around $55k in the USA which is a pretty hefty amount. Also, when I speak about Summer Break, most teachers in the US at least, do not work year round, so you have to factor in that fact when you look at annual earnings. If you factor that in, annual salary is actual about $75k (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#51fd80ba3746)...


One dude from Forbes interpreting a data set does not a study make. The statistics he's using from the Bureau of Labour Statistics are based on employer surveys. These surveys estimate based on scheduled hours ( which for BLS they simply estimate as the in class school year ), not full hours worked outside of class hours. This results in teachers appearing quite well paid under this methodology. It also results in other oddities like saying your HR manager making more than a nuclear engineer.



sundin13 wroteMy overall point is that the differences in pay are explainable by looking at life choices. My post wasn't supposed to be a proof of anything, it was me stating a few facts which imply that discrimination isn't a key factor when it comes to this discrepancy. You highlighted several other factors, but in context, again, life choices explain these discrepancies.


It is a factor. Many studies have already been done while controlled for "life choices" ( and seriously, stop saying that, as depending on the country there may not be that much choice involved ) and other suggested explanations. A gap still remains after being controlled for these factors. Yes, the 76 cents to the dollar thing is widely debunked ( as its drawn purely from raw data ) but when controls are applied an unexplained gap still remains.

There are also any number of studies done that demonstrate discriminatory hiring practices. A man with children for example is still more likely to be hired over a woman with children. Despite both having made the same "life choices".


A) err, no. Nothing I said was incorrect or misleading. Just brief.

B) So like I said, many areas across the world. I did not say everywhere so I'm not sure why you are getting hung up on the fact that this isn't universal. Anyways, life choices aND behavior also can account for many if the trends in hiring (ex, men trend to up sell themselves more) and career advancement (ex, men tend to work more and benefit more from a competitive environment).

As for maternity leave, that is neither here nor there

C) I never claimed any thing was a study. I did however post a source for my claims, which you haven't exactly refuted.
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Posted 3/19/16
SJW's aren't half as insufferable as gamergaters so you have that going for you at least
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37 / M / Virginia USA
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Posted 3/19/16
I keep things simple and just dislike everyone.
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Posted 3/19/16 , edited 3/19/16

miserykitsune wrote:

SJW's aren't half as insufferable as gamergaters so you have that going for you at least


You haven't been stuck around enough SJW or paying attention. I've yet to see GG actually physically attack or throw piss on someone, disrupt events screaming their heads off while painting fake blood on their face, pulling fire alarms to stop presentations, etc.

"SocJus" - not even once.
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Posted 3/19/16
I saw a post the other day that I thought was very descriptive of our modern problems:


"Social Justice Warriors" are usually the exact opposite. They are almost universally kids, acedemics or yuppies (which is short for young urban professional, for those who don't know). Just like the above-mentioned birthing class members, these people have never had to slaughter an animal, defend themselves, go to war, or deal with the real world in any significant way.

WELCOME TO REAL LIFE where people have the RIGHT to dislike eachother, be rude, look after themselves, disagree, and state un-PC opinions.

SJW's are trying to force everyone to get along. This isn't an episode of the Care Bears. Belittling others for not seeing things your way isn't justice - it is being a self-rightious zealot. Forcing people to be PC isn't justice - it is controlling and manipulative. Accepting that there is bad in the world, learning to look after yourself, and dealing with reality is part of being a grownup. So if you think you're a Social Justice Warrior, drop the pretentiousness already - you are not better than other people for supporting the current PC climate (which changes every few years).
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Posted 3/19/16
Arguing about SJW, it cannot possibly get any more "Internet" than that.
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Posted 3/19/16
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Posted 3/19/16

sundin13 wrote:


Further, the whole "teachers are underpaid" thing is a myth. They actually get paid pretty darn well, especially when you take into account summer break.


Varies greatly from area to area. But its a mistake to think teachers do not work in the summer. They have to plan out there entire year in that time. Also I can attest as someone raised by teachers that most teachers hold down a secondary job during the summer to keep the money coming in. My father for example works as both a public school teacher teaches a college course during the summer and works as a bartender.
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Posted 3/19/16

megahobbit wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Further, the whole "teachers are underpaid" thing is a myth. They actually get paid pretty darn well, especially when you take into account summer break.


Varies greatly from area to area. But its a mistake to think teachers do not work in the summer. They have to plan out there entire year in that time. Also I can attest as someone raised by teachers that most teachers hold down a secondary job during the summer to keep the money coming in. My father for example works as both a public school teacher teaches a college course during the summer and works as a bartender.


This assumes the teachers are actually good - there are some that do nothing but follow a lesson plan provided with their materials and never really change. Academically lazy teachers are a thing in some areas - from what I've seen from the schools in the area I'm very glad I wasn't brought up in the Oklahoma school system only taking my college related courses down here.
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Posted 3/19/16

zinjashike wrote:

This assumes the teachers are actually good - there are some that do nothing but follow a lesson plan provided with their materials and never really change. Academically lazy teachers are a thing in some areas - from what I've seen from the schools in the area I'm very glad I wasn't brought up in the Oklahoma school system only taking my college related courses down here.


Oh trust me I have had my fair share of teachers who I think are lazy as fuck. My current history teacher I absolutely despise for his laziness especially seeing my dad work his ass of last year for our family (TLDR mom had cancer couldnt work).
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Posted 3/19/16
SJWs are a fucking joke, lol.
runec 
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Posted 3/19/16

sundin13 wrote:
A) err, no. Nothing I said was incorrect or misleading. Just brief.

B) So like I said, many areas across the world. I did not say everywhere so I'm not sure why you are getting hung up on the fact that this isn't universal. Anyways, life choices aND behavior also can account for many if the trends in hiring (ex, men trend to up sell themselves more) and career advancement (ex, men tend to work more and benefit more from a competitive environment).

As for maternity leave, that is neither here nor there


You cited two examples which were a tad cherry picked to support a very broad hypothesis. You made the first one sound very impressive and crowned it the "largest and most thorough". When in fact it's an outlier study that goes against the grain of every other study and is based on flawed methodology. Seeing as it was based solely on a voluntary survey they sent to a 50/50 split of men and women. When faculty is not a 50/50 split to begin with ( I'll leave you to guess which gender is the majority in STEM faculty ;p ). They also failed to control for seniority ( and thus the actual hiring power of those surveyed ).

With your second example you again made it sound more significant than it is with "many areas across the world". Terminology you are now defending as essentially being technically correct.

And maternity leave is definitely here. You cannot tote a study that focuses on such a narrow window to produce a result you agree with and ignore all of the other factors involved in this problem. Factors which even the authors of your study fully admit still exist. If you are going to continue to try and pin the responsibility for this problem on women's "life choices" then you must by extension examine why these "choices" are being made.

Otherwise it just sounds like you are trying to shift the blame for gender inequality onto women themselves.



sundin13 wrote:
C) I never claimed any thing was a study. I did however post a source for my claims, which you haven't exactly refuted.


The Forbes writer is making a mistake that many have made before him in interpreting the BLS data:
http://www.nea.org/home/12661.htm




Posted 3/19/16 , edited 3/19/16

D4nc3Style wrote:

SJWs are a fucking joke, lol.


So are most of the people who used the word "SJW". You might as well say nigger and be taken just as seriously. That's how meaningless the word is.
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Posted 3/19/16 , edited 3/19/16
SJW? I though you was turned off by that? XP
...
Excel Saga - Pinky and the Brain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ePoYtx6NAc
now take a break from social justice "work"

Jakubi - Couch Potato (sitting in comfort)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9SHmG3wGqc
Posted 3/19/16
whats a sjw i have no idea is it jehova?
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