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Post Reply Anime vs manga
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Posted 3/20/16

TheAncientOne wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

dubs sometimes cut significant portions of the series, for apparently no reason.
as for dub voices, depends on the series...some have decent voice, others not so much.

Either you only watch dubs on TV, kid-targeted anime, or you're only familiar with old dubs (where if the broadcast license came first, they wouldn't bother with putting anything out other than the TV cut for home video).

Even with TV broadcasts, the cuts certainly aren't "without reason", as they almost always are for content, or more often, for time. You may not agree with the reason, but that doesn't mean it isn't a reason.




Strungout wrote:

Regarding dub I used to watch strictly dub awhile back until I started shows that only had subs. After watching subbed anime for a long time now I actually cringe when I hear dubbed anime for some reason. I'm not one of those people who criticize others for preferring dubbed anime by any means, it's just personal preference. im gonna refer to higurashi again, after I completed the whole series, ovas, etc I saw that the first season was dubbed. I was in shock at how bad it sounded to me, even though I don't speak Japanese at all the sound of the voices just seemed more fitting to the characters. I actually felt embarrassed listening to the dub that's how bad it was to me.

I wouldn't hold up Higurashi as being a decent dub to begin with. It was one of the last Geneon dubs, although I would say it was at least better than the ones for the first two Nanoha series.

Also, unless a good amount of time passed between viewing the sub and the dub (enough for your memory of how the voices sounded to begin to get a bit fuzzy), you have to account for the natural human "first exposure" bias.



Yeah I agree totally with the first exposure bias i didnt think of it like that. Actually last night after posting this I watched the newest Pandora and the Crimson shell episode, I saw that a couple of the episodes were dubbed so I tried it out and I confirmed to myself just how cringey it made me feel. Like I couldn't stand it for some reason.
Idk if you are watching this show but a character(the aunt) after almost every sentence she says dai-yah (sub is just yeah) and even though repetitive it is pretty cute and matches the characters personality; I sped up to when she gets introduced to hear how they did it and it was unbelievely bad and awkward sounding. Actually every characters voice just didn't seem right.

The last series I watched dubbed was season 1 of is this a zombie and started season 2 subbed and at first I thought the dub was actually somewhat better, but I missed out on a lot of funny engrish moments. So it seems first exposure bias can play a factor.
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Posted 3/20/16

mouseno4 wrote:
I can't help but laugh when people say that the Japanese audio is better than the english one, when the viewer cannot understand a single word of Japanese.

But there are people who understand Japanese. You may not be one of those people (and you never will be if you keep watching dubs), but that doesn't mean nobody else is.


They may as well be grunting and just continuously saying 'rawr rawr rawr' in different volumes, pitches and speeds in place of actual speech. There is effectively no difference between that and Japanese audio when you do not understand the language. Now if you understand at least a few words of Japanese then you can appreciate it's quality.

It sure is odd that I've never heard film enthusiasts and critics bring up these supposed problems, even though they often watch movies in various languages they don't understand.


Sure, you can easily judge an english audio because you understand the words, the tone, the volume, pitch etc of each uttered word and whether "Did you just do that?" and "DID YOU just do that?" are the same and which was delivered better because you understand word inflection. You can say that sentence as a question or as a statement - you can say it desperately or as if you were half asleep.

Subtitles also account for intonation, which you can mentally match with the spoken dialogue.

And at the end of the day, nobody can cite any anime where the voice acting is bad. They just assume it must exist even if they've never heard it and even if they never watch anime in Japanese.

You also missed most of my point. It's not just about quality, it's about the original creative intent of the work and its cultural and industrial context. Which dub apologists don't care about at all.
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

CKD-Anime wrote:

^I kinda want to watch some German anime dubs now.


Make sure to watch something "new" (not older then 10 years). Older dubs are usually better then the new one (hellsing for example is quite good) .
If you want that real kids-show feeling watch Akame Ga Kill .
German dubs in a nutshell: Sailor Moon Crystal (quite good voice actors mixed with Lisa Simpson-Sailor Moon and some horrible bad voice actors)
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


mouseno4 wrote:
I can't help but laugh when people say that the Japanese audio is better than the english one, when the viewer cannot understand a single word of Japanese.

But there are people who understand Japanese. You may not be one of those people (and you never will be if you keep watching dubs), but that doesn't mean nobody else is.


They may as well be grunting and just continuously saying 'rawr rawr rawr' in different volumes, pitches and speeds in place of actual speech. There is effectively no difference between that and Japanese audio when you do not understand the language. Now if you understand at least a few words of Japanese then you can appreciate it's quality.

It sure is odd that I've never heard film enthusiasts and critics bring up these supposed problems, even though they often watch movies in various languages they don't understand.


Sure, you can easily judge an english audio because you understand the words, the tone, the volume, pitch etc of each uttered word and whether "Did you just do that?" and "DID YOU just do that?" are the same and which was delivered better because you understand word inflection. You can say that sentence as a question or as a statement - you can say it desperately or as if you were half asleep.

Subtitles also account for intonation, which you can mentally match with the spoken dialogue.

And at the end of the day, nobody can cite any anime where the voice acting is bad. They just assume it must exist even if they've never heard it and even if they never watch anime in Japanese.

You also missed most of my point. It's not just about quality, it's about the original creative intent of the work and its cultural and industrial context. Which dub apologists don't care about at all.


Way to take what I said out of context.
mnmike 
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Posted 3/20/16
Sure, anything can be done poorly. I think that goes without saying.

But, when done well, I think anime and manga complement each other nicely:

Manga can usually go into more depth in the story. Even mediocre manga are allowed to run for years and multiple volumes. Anime is extremely expensive to produce.

Anime can expose a property to a much wider audience. The Toradora and Spice and Wolf novels are both way better than their respective anime (to name just two of many examples), but I never would have read them if I hadn't watched the anime first.

Anime can bring the characters to life--which particular matters for action-oriented properties. I love the Trigun universe and the characters, but the action sequences in the manga I found difficult to follow, at times; the anime made them flow much more smoothly and allowed me just to sit back and let them wash over me, instead of me having to puzzle out what was happening.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


mouseno4 wrote:
I can't help but laugh when people say that the Japanese audio is better than the english one, when the viewer cannot understand a single word of Japanese.

But there are people who understand Japanese. You may not be one of those people (and you never will be if you keep watching dubs), but that doesn't mean nobody else is.

A lot of people that make this argument aren't in that subset, however. The vast majority of sub-purists are people that understand a number of isolated Japanese words, but would have a problem stringing together a single sentence a native Japanese speaker could understand.

Also, someone learning Japanese from viewing anime would be about as well qualified to tell good acting from bad as someone learning English from viewing Hollywood movies or US TV shows.

Relevant link:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-02-26/.99020

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Posted 3/20/16

mouseno4 wrote:
Way to take what I said out of context.

Quoting part of a post is not taking things out of context.


TheAncientOne wrote:
A lot of people that make this argument aren't in that subset, however. The vast majority of sub-purists are people that understand a number of isolated Japanese words, but would have a problem stringing together a single sentence a native Japanese speaker could understand.

Also, someone learning Japanese from viewing anime would be about as well qualified to tell good acting from bad as someone learning English from viewing Hollywood movies or US TV shows.

Nobody can cite anime with bad voice acting, and I have not even once heard any of these arguments made by people who watch foreign language cinema.

And we're again back to arguing exclusively about the quality of the acting and how well it can be understood. Dub apologists absolutely do not care about the creative intent behind anime. They don't even want to acknowledge it.


I read it when it was published. It's one of the worst answers I've seen from him.
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


mouseno4 wrote:
Way to take what I said out of context.

Quoting part of a post is not taking things out of context.


TheAncientOne wrote:
A lot of people that make this argument aren't in that subset, however. The vast majority of sub-purists are people that understand a number of isolated Japanese words, but would have a problem stringing together a single sentence a native Japanese speaker could understand.

Also, someone learning Japanese from viewing anime would be about as well qualified to tell good acting from bad as someone learning English from viewing Hollywood movies or US TV shows.

Nobody can cite anime with bad voice acting, and I have not even once heard any of these arguments made by people who watch foreign language cinema.

And we're again back to arguing exclusively about the quality of the acting and how well it can be understood. Dub apologists absolutely do not care about the creative intent behind anime. They don't even want to acknowledge it.


I read it when it was published. It's one of the worst answers I've seen from him.


Uh... Yeah it is as a matter of fact.

But I see you are just baiting for an argument so I am going to go ahead and drop it.
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Posted 3/20/16

mouseno4 wrote:
Uh... Yeah it is as a matter of fact.

No, it isn't. You don't know what out of context means.


But I see you are just baiting for an argument so I am going to go ahead and drop it.

Correcting an incorrect statement is not baiting.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


I read it when it was published. It's one of the worst answers I've seen from him.

So what are your qualifications?

From my perspective, you're just an opinionated guy on the internet vs. a professional in the industry.


You claimed, "Nobody can cite anime with bad voice acting,...", and state you read the article, yet in it, we find this:

The first time I heard outright bad Japanese voice acting was when Bandai Entertainment released a now-forgotten and pretty terrible "romantic comedy" series called Don't Leave Me Alone, Daisy.


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Posted 3/20/16
OH NO!

Not another english sub vs dub threads......
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Posted 3/20/16

TheAncientOne wrote:
So what are your qualifications?

From my perspective, you're just an opinionated guy on the internet vs. a professional in the industry.

Even Hayao Miyazaki and Hideaki Anno have made ignorant statements about anime. Don't try to appeal to authority.


You claimed, "Nobody can cite anime with bad voice acting,...", and state you read the article, yet in it, we find this:

The first time I heard outright bad Japanese voice acting was when Bandai Entertainment released a now-forgotten and pretty terrible "romantic comedy" series called Don't Leave Me Alone, Daisy.

I was not referring to his article. And it's not that there does not exist any anime with bad voice acting, it's that people keep claiming or implying that there's lots of it all over the place but us ignorant gaijin just don't realize it because we couldn't possibly comprehend Japanese. And yet these supposedly numerous anime with bad voice acting are never mentioned, and the critics themselves don't appear to know Japanese either.
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Posted 3/20/16

TheAncientOne wrote:


A lot of people that make this argument aren't in that subset, however. The vast majority of sub-purists are people that understand a number of isolated Japanese words, but would have a problem stringing together a single sentence a native Japanese speaker could understand.

Also, someone learning Japanese from viewing anime would be about as well qualified to tell good acting from bad as someone learning English from viewing Hollywood movies or US TV shows.

Relevant link:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-02-26/.99020



lol at "learning" the language from anime (i'd just leave it at that. a full post would go way off topic)
"sub-purist" feels a bit like an oxymoron, considering the few bad subs out there (mostly fansubs)
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

drninja wrote:

Even Hayao Miyazaki and Hideaki Anno have made ignorant statements about anime. Don't try to appeal to authority.

Nice sidestep of why your opinion should be given any more weight that of anyone else here (and apparently above that of someone in the industry), despite speaking as though it should.


I was not referring to his article. And it's not that there does not exist any anime with bad voice acting, it's that people keep claiming or implying that there's lots of it all over the place but us ignorant gaijin just don't realize it because we couldn't possibly comprehend Japanese. And yet these supposedly numerous anime with bad voice acting are never mentioned, and the critics themselves don't appear to know Japanese either.

I didn't imply you were referring to his article with that statement. I was stating that you had missed a blatant citation by someone.



namealreadytaken wrote:

lol at "learning" the language from anime (i'd just leave it at that. a full post would go way off topic)
"sub-purist" feels a bit like an oxymoron, considering the few bad subs out there (mostly fansubs)

As you might be able to tell from my message, I agree that concept is amusing. Yet, I've come across people that think they can or have claimed they did. I'll wager none have tried conversing with a native speaker or actually supplemented the understanding they gleaned with coursework prior to doing so.

"Sub-purists" refers to those who see dubs as an anathema, and believe the only acceptable way to view anime for those that don't understand Japanese is to view it in subtitled format with the original Japanese audio. At least for the more knowledgeable ones, it doesn't reflect on the veracity of the subtitles themselves.

Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16
I prefer anime because I can't imagine voices, colours, music and other things when I'm reading manga.

But manga tends to be better than anime in terms of story execution...
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:
So what are your qualifications?

From my perspective, you're just an opinionated guy on the internet vs. a professional in the industry.

Even Hayao Miyazaki and Hideaki Anno have made ignorant statements about anime. Don't try to appeal to authority.


You claimed, "Nobody can cite anime with bad voice acting,...", and state you read the article, yet in it, we find this:

The first time I heard outright bad Japanese voice acting was when Bandai Entertainment released a now-forgotten and pretty terrible "romantic comedy" series called Don't Leave Me Alone, Daisy.

I was not referring to his article. And it's not that there does not exist any anime with bad voice acting, it's that people keep claiming or implying that there's lots of it all over the place but us ignorant gaijin just don't realize it because we couldn't possibly comprehend Japanese. And yet these supposedly numerous anime with bad voice acting are never mentioned, and the critics themselves don't appear to know Japanese either.


Go hang out with Japanese people in Japanese sites if you wanna hear what people who can expertly pick out bad acting are thinking. The last time I checked a Japanese review site, there were plenty of anime with 3/5s for voice acting.
I randomly looked up a few recent anime on this site and this is what I got.
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/9361/
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/10250
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/10142/
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/8191/
The overall ratings don't look too good compared to how highly westerners tend to rate them here and it's usually only the people who like the show(or hate it) who give reviews.

This is the anime he mentioned with bad acting for reference. Apparently, a 3.6.
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/2386
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