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Post Reply Anime vs manga
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20 / M / Costa Rica
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Posted 3/20/16
What people usually forget is that an anime that comes from a manga or light novel or anything else is an adaptation, emphasis on the word "adaptation". It´s exactly the same when a movie is adapted from a book, the book purists will always try to find the smallest flaw to criticize the movie.

Both visual storytelling in movies and tv shows is very different from storytelling through still images or books. Changes have to be made in order to fit the needs of one medium or the other, that is why some changes in the anime are going to be necessary. As many others have said, these changes don´t detract from the experience as long as they don´t mess with the story that is being told; that is why shows like Erased and The Seven Deadly Sins are so entertaining and enjoyable, because their changes ultimately don´t change the story too much, although many manga fans will disagree. This is also the reason as to why the Tokyo Ghoul anime gets so much hate with it´s second season, because it basically changed everything from the manga, making the story lose coherence and turning the anime into a total mess.
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Posted 3/20/16

TheAncientOne wrote:
Nice sidestep of why your opinion should be given any more weight that of anyone else here (and apparently above that of someone in the industry), despite speaking as though it should.

It was not a sidestep, it was me clearly explaining that "qualifications" don't matter. You are the one who is trying to sidestep things by making this a game of who has the most perceived authority.


I didn't imply you were referring to his article with that statement. I was stating that you had missed a blatant citation by someone.

I didn't even remember he had said that. As it turns out, I don't remember every single detail of everything I read. And if you think a grand total of one citation by someone else proves anything then I have bad news for you.


As you might be able to tell from my message, I agree that concept is amusing. Yet, I've come across people that think they can or have claimed they did. I'll wager none have tried conversing with a native speaker or actually supplemented the understanding they gleaned with coursework prior to doing so.

Putting aside abnormally gifted people like idiot savants, you can't become fluent in Japanese by watching anime and other Japanese media, but you can over time learn to understand quite a lot of it and get a good feel for it. And if you want to become fluent then exposure is something you need anyway, and one of the ways of getting exposure is listening to Japanese.

If you're listening to just dubs then you aren't learning any Japanese and shouldn't be trying to look down on people who actually are.


"Sub-purists" refers to those who see dubs as an anathema, and believe the only acceptable way to view anime for those that don't understand Japanese is to view it in subtitled format with the original Japanese audio. At least for the more knowledgeable ones, it doesn't reflect on the veracity of the subtitles themselves.

Dub apologists don't care about artistic intent. They don't care that the voice actors were picked by the original production team, were supervised by the original production team, were reading from a script written by the original production team, and prepared for their roles by reading the source material. The voice acting and writing can be easily tossed aside and replaced with whatever, because they don't matter. The cultural and linguistic dimensions of anime don't matter either.


RedExodus wrote:
Go hang out with Japanese people in Japanese sites if you wanna hear what people who can expertly pick out bad acting are thinking. The last time I checked a Japanese review site, there were plenty of anime with 3/5s for voice acting.
I randomly looked up a few recent anime on this site and this is what I got.
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/9361/
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/10250
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/10142/
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/8191/
The overall ratings don't look too good compared to how highly westerners tend to rate them here and it's usually only the people who like the show(or hate it) who give reviews.

This is the anime he mentioned with bad acting for reference. Apparently, a 3.6.
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/2386

Again just someone else's opinions.

And if you start comparing and rating voice acting then of course some is going to be worse or less good than others. 3/5 doesn't even mean bad, it means average.
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37 / M / SW Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3/20/16
I think the biggest problem is that some people don't take into account that anime and manga are clearly different forms of media. Each form has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and whatever shows up in those forms needs to be adapted to fit those strengths and avoid those weaknesses. And this isn't just a manga/anime thing but also exists in any sort of adaptation. Frankly, there are definitely some ways in which an extremely accurate adaptation from manga can lead to a bad anime simply because they follow the source material too closely.

To me, what's important is that the resulting media is actually good. Of course there should be some level of similarity otherwise why do an adaptation at all instead of just an original work inspired by the source material, but being 100& accurate shouldn't be the goal when doing an adaptation.

As for dubs, I just always gravitate towards the original language version whether it's Japanese or something else. Even if I can't always understand all of what's being said I still appreciate hearing the original voicing regardless. At the end of the day, even good dubs just don't "feel" right to me, from the odd mouth movements and timing to the often altered localized dialogue choices.B
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

drninja wrote:

Again just someone else's opinions.

And if you start comparing and rating voice acting then of course some is going to be worse or less good than others. 3/5 doesn't even mean bad, it means average.


The reviews associated with the 3/5s there sound rather negative to me buddy. People be saying things like dropping the show. You look at the scores of 50~70 out of 100 and think that's good? I purposely looked for the ones with lower scores anyways so as to escape "average" and fit the bad category, otherwise, I would have linked 4/5 and above.

So now, if a Japanese person thinks the acting is bad, it's just their "opinion" eh? Okay, if you think the English dubs are bad, that's your opinion.
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16
unless i'm missing something, the reviews don't seem to be too critical on the voice acting.
they're basically "satisfied" with the voice-acting", but not "impressed".
this quote probably illustrates the opinion for an average series:


女性向けアニメ、に相応しい人気声優たちの起用に抜かりはない感じだが、
なかなかバリエーション豊かなんじゃないかと思う。
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/8191/

translation, with some leeway:
"while i don't think they made a mistake in the assignment of voice actresses for this anime, i feel as though there wasn't much variety."

....though he still rated it a 4/5 for voice-acting for that particular series.
and what with some people rating it low without even bothering to watch the series >.>
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Posted 3/20/16

RedExodus wrote:
So now, if a Japanese person thinks the acting is bad, it's just their "opinion" eh?

I was not making the point that it's their opinion, I was making the point that once again people are relying on other people's opinions. Anime is supposedly plagued by bad voice acting yet the best people can do is refer to other people who think anime has bad voice acting. And these people just happen to have some amount of perceived authority. It's almost appealing to authority is the whole idea here...


Okay, if you think the English dubs are bad, that's your opinion.

English dubs are objectively worse.
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


RedExodus wrote:
So now, if a Japanese person thinks the acting is bad, it's just their "opinion" eh?

I was not making the point that it's their opinion, I was making the point that once again people are relying on other people's opinions. Anime is supposedly plagued by bad voice acting yet the best people can do is refer to other people who think anime has bad voice acting. And these people just happen to have some amount of perceived authority. It's almost appealing to authority is the whole idea here...


Okay, if you think the English dubs are bad, that's your opinion.

English dubs are objectively worse.


You really don't leave much leeway as to what kind of input would be accepted you know. I was not looking for any lead figures but rather, I shared the common Japanese thought by showing you a site. After all, how do you judge if you don't know the language fully? Other than that, I didn't have many conditions on who would pass. If you search through this site and don't find the aforementioned uglies, there's no hope of convincing you. I don't see how you can judge shows other than as opinion anyways.

Let's say someone actually knows what he's talking about in theory and I show you this person. It is now "just relying on someone's opinion" just because I cited him?

namealreadytaken wrote:

unless i'm missing something, the reviews don't seem to be too critical on the voice acting.
they're basically "satisfied" with the voice-acting", but not "impressed".
this quote probably illustrates the opinion for an average series:


女性向けアニメ、に相応しい人気声優たちの起用に抜かりはない感じだが、
なかなかバリエーション豊かなんじゃないかと思う。
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/8191/

translation, with some leeway:
"while i don't think they made a mistake in the assignment of voice actresses for this anime, i feel as though there wasn't much variety."

....though he still rated it a 4/5 for voice-acting for that particular series.
and what with some people rating it low without even bothering to watch the series >.>

Yeah, I saw that review too for Norn9 through using CTRL+F since I got annoyed with having to read through all of them for any mention of voicing lol. I've been on the site several times but they tend to speak a lot more about other aspects of the show than voicing in my experience so what I did is take the words of what people generally think of 2.5~3.5 shows and apply that to 2.5~3.5 rated voice acting. 2.5~3.5 shows generally do not receive a lot of love.

I purposely omitted any particularly high scoring shows that I have found though to answer to the "bad voicing" citings.
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Posted 3/20/16

RedExodus wrote:
You really don't leave much leeway as to what kind of input would be accepted you know. I was not looking for any lead figures but rather, I shared the common Japanese thought by showing you a site. After all, how do you judge if you don't know the language fully? Other than that, I didn't have many conditions on who would pass.

Let's say someone actually knows what he's talking about in theory and I show you this person. It is now "just relying on someone's opinion" just because I cited him?

If you think that anime secretly is plagued by bad voice acting that us stupid gaijin just don't notice, then I assume you are personally familiar with this bad voice acting and are fluent in Japanese as well (since this is apparently the requirement for being able to tell good acting from bad acting). I've had this argument many times and I don't think there's ever been a case where someone has actually named any anime.
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


RedExodus wrote:
You really don't leave much leeway as to what kind of input would be accepted you know. I was not looking for any lead figures but rather, I shared the common Japanese thought by showing you a site. After all, how do you judge if you don't know the language fully? Other than that, I didn't have many conditions on who would pass.

Let's say someone actually knows what he's talking about in theory and I show you this person. It is now "just relying on someone's opinion" just because I cited him?

If you think that anime secretly is plagued by bad voice acting that us stupid gaijin just don't notice, then I assume you are personally familiar with this bad voice acting and are fluent in Japanese as well (since this is apparently the requirement for being able to tell good acting from bad acting). I've had this argument many times and I don't think there's ever been a case where someone has actually named any anime.


I didn't think anime is plagued by bad voice acting per se though bad ones do exist. If I did, I wouldn't have had to omit any high rankers to illustrate my point. Also, my point is that you're hanging in the wrong place if you want to converse with people who can tell you without citing other people. I showed you a point where you can receive many answers instead of directly giving you any form of detailed answer coming from any one person. Apparently, you're still looking to do it here with someone in a predominantly English speaking site where everyone cites Japanese people.
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Posted 3/20/16
How did we go from "anime vs manga" to a "subs vs dubs" debate?
What the fuck is wrong with this situation?


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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/20/16

RedExodus wrote:
I didn't think anime is plagued by bad voice acting per se though bad ones do exist. If I did, I wouldn't have had to omit any high rankers to illustrate my point. Also, my point is that you're hanging in the wrong place if you want to converse with people who can tell you without citing other people. I showed you a point where you can receive many answers instead of directly giving you any form of detailed answer coming from any one person. Apparently, you're still looking to do it here with someone in a predominantly English speaking site where everyone cites Japanese people.

If the English speakers here aren't qualified to evaluate the quality of Japanese voice acting then what makes them think there's a problem with Japanese voice acting?


qualeshia3 wrote:

How did we go from "anime vs manga" to a "subs vs dubs" debate?
What the fuck is wrong with this situation?

It was mentioned by the OP.
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


RedExodus wrote:
I didn't think anime is plagued by bad voice acting per se though bad ones do exist. If I did, I wouldn't have had to omit any high rankers to illustrate my point. Also, my point is that you're hanging in the wrong place if you want to converse with people who can tell you without citing other people. I showed you a point where you can receive many answers instead of directly giving you any form of detailed answer coming from any one person. Apparently, you're still looking to do it here with someone in a predominantly English speaking site where everyone cites Japanese people.

If the English speakers here aren't qualified to evaluate the quality of Japanese voice acting then what makes them think there's a problem with Japanese voice acting?


qualeshia3 wrote:

How did we go from "anime vs manga" to a "subs vs dubs" debate?
What the fuck is wrong with this situation?

It was mentioned by the OP.


You know, authority may not be absolute but you can't just dismiss them completely either. It's still better than what people here can come up with on their own. It sounds like you're incapable of trusting other people no matter what on this subject considering that you say you've had this conversation countless times.


My point is not to dismiss the people citing authority here, I was playing along with you since apparently, you do not want to hear it from us.
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Posted 3/20/16

drninja wrote:


mouseno4 wrote:
Uh... Yeah it is as a matter of fact.

No, it isn't. You don't know what out of context means.


But I see you are just baiting for an argument so I am going to go ahead and drop it.

Correcting an incorrect statement is not baiting.


You have been marked as spam. No more replies from me.
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Posted 3/20/16 , edited 3/27/16

mouseno4 wrote:


drninja wrote:


mouseno4 wrote:
Uh... Yeah it is as a matter of fact.

No, it isn't. You don't know what out of context means.


But I see you are just baiting for an argument so I am going to go ahead and drop it.

Correcting an incorrect statement is not baiting.


You have been marked as spam. No more replies from me.

You have been reported for falsely flagging my post as spam.
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Posted 3/20/16

namealreadytaken wrote:

unless i'm missing something, the reviews don't seem to be too critical on the voice acting.
they're basically "satisfied" with the voice-acting", but not "impressed".
this quote probably illustrates the opinion for an average series:


女性向けアニメ、に相応しい人気声優たちの起用に抜かりはない感じだが、
なかなかバリエーション豊かなんじゃないかと思う。
https://www.anikore.jp/anime/8191/

translation, with some leeway:
"while i don't think they made a mistake in the assignment of voice actresses for this anime, i feel as though there wasn't much variety."

....though he still rated it a 4/5 for voice-acting for that particular series.
and what with some people rating it low without even bothering to watch the series >.>


i forgot to mention but i was mostly looking at average scores stated near the top with a few glances at reviews here n there
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