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Post Reply The US primary election system is a fraudulent sham
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Posted 3/31/16
The primary system in the US is not one which the voters get to choose, but the politically established elite.

This year is yet another perfect example. I call the system "fraud" because it deceives voters into thinking that they're the ones choosing anything, when the reality is that they aren't.

Let's take a look at the Democrat side.
Hillary Clinton has a HUGE delegate lead of 400+ to about 20, all before even a single primary election vote is cast. This is from those "super delegates", members of the Democrat political establishment who pledged beforehand to back her. It would only take a minority of voters for Clinton to get the nomination. The establishment is firmly in control of things no matter what happens.

The Republican side is arguably worse, and it's not because of the numbers.
Sure, the RNC changes rules every single time but they don't even arse themselves to an even remotely consistent narrative as to the whys and hows of the rule changes. The Republican establishment just change the convention rules to whatever rules that keeps them in power and keeps them in control. Last time they changed the rule to require winning 8 primaries to prevent Ron Paul from even getting into the convention, and this time they're very likely going to change the same rule again just to let Kasich in even though he has won only 1 primary so far simply because he appears to be more palatable and electable to the establishment.

Last time I did my protest vote for Ron Paul (who had a snowball's chance in Hell of getting even the nomination- see above). This time I'm not even gonna bother.

The system is rigged. It needs to be taken down, destroyed and redone before I bother with it again... Fat chance of that happening with any of this sham voting.
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Posted 3/31/16
I don't think the Republican establishment even cares about Kasich. All the big name republicans seem to be rallying behind Ted Cruz since he's the only with a realistic chance of beating Trump fair and square. Choosing the guy with the least amount of votes will only anger the voters even more. I keep seeing people say that Kasich needs to drop out already so he doesn't split the vote between him and Cruz and give Trump the victory.

But you're right. Both parties are rigged. After giving Ron Paul the middle finger, the GOP ended up with Romney and that didn't work out so well. Hillary's supporters are bought before votes are even cast. She even has the audacity to say that she deserves to get paid to speak at a debate before the NY primaries or it won't happen. Just so Bernie doesn't get equal media coverage. The previous election was bad but this one somehow managed to be worse.
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Posted 3/31/16
You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.
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Posted 3/31/16
I guess you just need to dive into the cesspool of the United States political arena and start rabble rousing. Change the system from within while encouraging the brainless masses of the oppressed to change the system from without.
scye27 
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Posted 3/31/16
The revolution will not be easy. It will not happen overnight, nor will we be able to get politicians that represent the people immediately. It is important to hold elected officials accountable. In November, you can still vote for congressional seats, because 88% of them will be up. Maybe then we can get a congress that does something productive. I voted early so that I could make sure my registration wasn't "missing". I'm independent and in an open primary state, so it's not as susceptible to fraud, unlike Arizona.
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Posted 3/31/16

neugenx wrote:

You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.


That just defeats the purpose of an election, which is to give people real choices instead of Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, or "none of the above".
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Posted 3/31/16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsNkt9yuKI
not sure how legit this is, but i loled :p
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Posted 3/31/16

gornotck wrote:

I guess you just need to dive into the cesspool of the United States political arena and start rabble rousing. Change the system from within while encouraging the brainless masses of the oppressed to change the system from without.


When you do it from within the crappy system, you'd see exactly where and how far things like "The Reform Party" goes.

The best one could hope for is that something awfully venomous gets ingested, and it poisons everything so thoroughly that the whole stinking bag just explodes at the end of a long, failed process of cooption.
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Posted 3/31/16 , edited 3/31/16

scye27 wrote:

The revolution will not be easy. It will not happen overnight, nor will we be able to get politicians that represent the people immediately. It is important to hold elected officials accountable. In November, you can still vote for congressional seats, because 88% of them will be up. Maybe then we can get a congress that does something productive. I voted early so that I could make sure my registration wasn't "missing". I'm independent and in an open primary state, so it's not as susceptible to fraud, unlike Arizona.


It starts even smaller than Congress. Cities in various states are constantly having their districts redrawn so that one party or the other is the only one who ever gets elected. There have been reports of the districts being drawn to this effect. It isn't just Arizona, sadly.


nanikore2 wrote:


gornotck wrote:

I guess you just need to dive into the cesspool of the United States political arena and start rabble rousing. Change the system from within while encouraging the brainless masses of the oppressed to change the system from without.


When you do it from within the crappy system, you'd see exactly where and how far things like "The Reform Party" goes.

The best one could hope for is that something awfully venomous gets ingested, and it poisons everything so thoroughly that the whole stinking bag just explodes at the end of a long, failed process of cooption.


I am aware of the difficulty of the 'Reform Party', but it is unlikely that anything will ever get done unless people actively work to change the environment, both by continuously crawling up the asses of their elected officials in massive numbers as well as constant threat of litigation against your elected officials. So really I mean that you would need to jump into the political arena by playing their game, not just trying to get elected. Form committees, political action groups, propagandist organizations, and corporate entities. Constantly shout down from the rooftops and the steps of city hall. Spend absolutely ludicrous amounts of money to make your elected officials think that if they don't bend to your will, they will not get elected again.
That 'best hope' is your worst nightmare.
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Posted 3/31/16 , edited 3/31/16

nanikore2 wrote:


neugenx wrote:

You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.


That just defeats the purpose of an election, which is to give people real choices instead of Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, or "none of the above".


We have plenty of real choices, the problem today is more the voters themselves who "vote the party" instead of voting the best candidate. If more people took pride in WHO they voted for maybe this country wouldn't be in the state it is. The last "Independant" President we had was in either 1792 or 1820 depending on how you look at it. Although the amount of Independant candidates usually is large each election they never get the votes that "blind party voters" give to their parties despite the awful candidates the two major parties run. Although I have yet to decide who I'm voting for, it won't be Trump.
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Posted 3/31/16 , edited 3/31/16

PhantomGundam wrote:

She even has the audacity to say that she deserves to get paid to speak at a debate before the NY primaries or it won't happen. Just so Bernie doesn't get equal media coverage. The previous election was bad but this one somehow managed to be worse.


That veneer is peeling off a bit... but thankfully on this continent appearances still has to be kept so America won't turn into Africa

http://www.mynewswatchtimesng.com/amaechi-organised-kangaroo-election-suswam/

.......or would it?

https://www.facebook.com/glen.maxey/posts/10152935007696654


neugenx wrote:

We have plenty of real choices, the problem today is more the voters themselves who "vote the party" instead of voting the best candidate. If more people took pride in WHO they voted for maybe this country wouldn't be in the state it is. The last "Independant" President we had was in either 1792 or 1820 depending on how you look at it. Although the amount of Independant candidates usually is large each election they never get the votes that "blind party voters" give to their parties despite the awful candidates the two major parties run. Although I have yet to decide who I'm voting for, it won't be Trump.


I would say that it's more than just the voters. If people even feel the compulsion of tactical voting (as well as the compunction) then the system is screwed up in the first place. When the system compels this sort of behavior and even give rise to its rationalization, then it's best to be scrapped.
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Posted 3/31/16

neugenx wrote:

You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.


Pretty much this. Political parties exist to put candidates into office. That's why a party's platform matters, not just the candidates that run under it. It's also why parties choose the candidates they will back. If you don't like it, don't vote for the person they back. Just know that in order for that to do any good, the candidate you DO vote for will need backing from somewhere else to stand a chance.
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Posted 3/31/16

neugenx wrote:

You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.


Actually, our votes count even less in November. It's the Electoral College that decides the general election. Unless you live in one of the few swing states, your vote will have no impact at all on that process. At least in primaries you have some influence over the amount of delegates a candidate gets, which is the first major step in getting them the party's nomination.
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PhantomGundam wrote:


neugenx wrote:

You do realize not once in history has it been claimed that the Primary system is in the hands of the general public right? It's state delegates that cast their votes and always has been. The primaries are about the political parties choosing which horses they want to back in the race. It's their ballgame. Our votes don't count until November 2016 which we can vote for our choice on the ticket or write in our candidate of choice. Ron Paul's choice is "none of the above", my uncle's was always Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.


Actually, our votes count even less in November. It's the Electoral College that decides the general election. Unless you live in one of the few swing states, your vote will have no impact at all on that process. At least in primaries you have some influence over the amount of delegates a candidate gets, which is the first major step in getting them the party's nomination.


That's only partly true. In most states, the entire body of electors is instructed to vote for the candidate that received the majority of the vote. Basically, each state's population votes, and said state then supports the candidate chosen by its own citizens.
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foraslan wrote:

That's only partly true. In most states, the entire body of electors is instructed to vote for the candidate that received the majority of the vote. Basically, each state's population votes, and said state then supports the candidate chosen by its own citizens.


That's what makes votes in a general election pointless. Your vote means nothing if you vote for a republican in a blue state or a democrat in a red state. The only way your vote matters is if you vote alongside the majority party. Otherwise the electors won't even bother to take your vote into consideration. It's either vote for the larger party in your state or don't bother voting at all. That's why purple states are such a big deal. They have the potential to swing in either direction. The problem is that those states only make up a minority, meaning the entire general election is ultimately decided by a few people. If the electors in every state made their choices based on every voter regardless of the state's majority party, everyone's votes would have an impact.
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