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How do you feel about Transhumanism!
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Posted 4/3/16

DarksirenxX wrote:

Pros
medical uses such as paralyzed, blind, amputees have a chance at being able to walk move and see maybe even hear and smell too eventually.
expanding human capability
maybe extending our lives (although this kinda balances between good and bad for me because it seems way too unnatural)
telekinetic type applications are really cool like that board game you move with your mind

cons

-people will use their expanded capability for various crimes. imagine someone breaking into your home with robotic arms you probably couldnt do much to stop them. this will lead to increased police brutality too and then eventually some kind of gov regulation similar to gun control.
-if people start relpacing all their healthy parts with machine ones that really gross somehow
-it will be used for war

im sure there is alot more im just really tired but i like the topic though.


We can have all of the pros without attaching any of it to a warped ideology or cult.

We actually already have been having these things without attaching any transhuman label to any of it.

The Internet certainly "increased" many of our abilities to do many different things, and that certainly didn't involve a transhuman agenda.
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Posted 4/3/16

nanikore2 wrote:


DarksirenxX wrote:

Pros
medical uses such as paralyzed, blind, amputees have a chance at being able to walk move and see maybe even hear and smell too eventually.
expanding human capability
maybe extending our lives (although this kinda balances between good and bad for me because it seems way too unnatural)
telekinetic type applications are really cool like that board game you move with your mind

cons

-people will use their expanded capability for various crimes. imagine someone breaking into your home with robotic arms you probably couldnt do much to stop them. this will lead to increased police brutality too and then eventually some kind of gov regulation similar to gun control.
-if people start relpacing all their healthy parts with machine ones that really gross somehow
-it will be used for war

im sure there is alot more im just really tired but i like the topic though.


We can have all of the pros without attaching any of it to a warped ideology or cult.

We actually already have been having these things without attaching any transhuman label to any of it.

The Internet certainly "increased" many of our abilities to do many different things, and that certainly didn't involve a transhuman agenda.


if you are talking about uploading our mind into a computer, i agree, that's dumb and very much cultish. it might make for a really spectacular mass suicide though of all the people who fall for thinking its real.
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Posted 4/3/16 , edited 4/3/16

nanikore2 wrote:

I've been working as an engineer for over a decade.

Transhumanism is idiotic and cultish. I have one word to describe its "vision"- Crackpottery.

In the wider philosophical community, Transhumanism is derided for a variety of reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism#Debate (the section used to be titled "controversy" but my guess is some cult follower changed it to "debate" because there's really no arguing about just how awful it is)

I've written about this sordid subject in the past.

Singularity makes me puke because Transhumanism makes me puke. The short attention-spanned can check out some possible angles of the up-chuckage at Wikipedia. There lists some reasons why Transhumanism is one of the leading running jokes of the philosophical community. The even shorter attention-spanned can read the following.

Transhumanism Makes Me Puke -by nanikore2

I find the ideas behind Transhumanism yucky. It's the whole kookiness of it, as in Scientology, Dynetics kookiness. It seriously reminds me of the mass-suicide cult that waited for UFOs to take them all away.

Alright enough with the ad hom.

Replace self w/ machine: If we replace ourselves with wee bits of machines little by little, we would become practically immortals. I would not say "why" the concept is disgusting because it's not an issue subjected to reason. Sure, some people like to live forever, especially on their deathbeds. I would too, except I don't want to end up like a salt-shaker Dalek. Distaste aside, isn't it a fact that our brain cells do not get replaced by new cells?

The counterargument would be "the replacement would be functionally the same". This argument proves to be its own downfall, of course, unless one believes that we're nothing but packs of moving meat. If we're really just packs of moving meat then they could be replaced by packs of moving synthetic meat... right?

Cue the "p zombie" thought experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_zombie


A philosophical zombie,p-zombie or p-zed is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, sentience, or sapience. When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain. However, it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus), but it does not actually have the experience of pain as a person normally does.


"If it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, walks like a duck..." but isn't a conscious duck, then it's just something that takes an appearance of duck but isn't a duck at all.

You can have a great pile of turning gears and humming circuit boards, but it won't be anything living. You can build something that reacts to the environment without building anything living. Replace yourself with machines, and you would be committing suicide.

The entire notion of duplication of consciousness into a machine (e.g. "uploading" oneself into a machine) is also absurd. Sorry Star Trek transporter fans, but when you do a "move" operation on a group of data, what you're really doing is copying and then deleting.

No one will be "moving" their consciousness into a machine. They could theoretically be creating a perfect simulation (Let's ignore the fact that it's not even a copy for a moment and think of it this way... You can be standing right beside your "copy". Then which one is "you"? Surely, this "copy" isn't! What would you be doing then when you push the button to pull the curtains on the so-called "old you?")

This is really the very tip of the iceburg of my objections. Besides being distasteful and ridiculous, Transhumanism can be horrifically destructive as well. The old fogies among us can refer to Brave New World for inspiration while the young n' hip geeks who like Japanese stuff can look at The Vision of Escaflowne. (or even better- Vexile, which I consider to be THE representative anti-transhumanist Japanese animation... and let's not forget Neon Genesis Evangelion- Remember the "Human instrumentality project"..... Yes, the series is about a transhumanist organization which managed to destroy the darn world multiple times over)

Hopefully we can have Singularity redefined without all the Transhuman crap. Otherwise I want no part in it.

[edit: I will preempt some rotten tomatos by saying "on the other hand Transhumanism makes a pretty good marketing tool, provided that the majority of the populace does not share a distaste for it"]






"Replace self w/ machine: If we replace ourselves with wee bits of machines little by little, we would become practically immortals. I would not say "why" the concept is disgusting because it's not an issue subjected to reason."

That's no bad or irrational though.

But i agree some of the notions such of duplication of consciousness are absurd however they would be possible in the sense that you are copying and deleting the old and creating a new one.

It's not moving a consciousness but its as close as one can get to it.

I will agree though alot of Transhumanism is hypothetical and naive

however we need to proceed onwards to a society where humans can choose to be "immortal" in a sense and i hope to live to see that day.

"You can have a great pile of turning gears and humming circuit boards, but it won't be anything living. You can build something that reacts to the environment without building anything living. Replace yourself with machines, and you would be committing suicide.
"

That would depend on what you define as living.

Humans are no different we just react to the universe through chemical reactions in our brain which is already basically a shit ton of wiring and chemical reactions that make up our decisions and thoughts.

It would be highly possible (not now of course) but in the future to make a being that has the same type of consciousness that we do.

Also is replacing yourself with a machine not better then dying? i think so heck i would prefer to die knowing there is a clone of me to live its life.

No one ever said that said life would be exactly the same of course it would be different to an extent because by definition it's not the same as a human.

You are sounding rather idiotic claiming that something can't be "living" if it is made from a machine or a mixture of machine and cells.

I mean i understand your OPINION and what your saying and it does sound cultish but none of the arguments you have placed really make any reason to not strive for a future where we can go on living even if what lives on is only just a copy :P


The best point you made is

" isn't it a fact that our brain cells do not get replaced by new cells?"

Yes they do not IIRC so it's our job to find a way to prolong or rejuvenate them (if possible) if not the next best possibility is to find a way to copy the memories into a new body creating a clone to live on instead of the original.

I personally would be ok with death knowing another me is living on continuing what i want to do with my life and what work i want to get done,
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Posted 4/3/16

DarksirenxX wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


DarksirenxX wrote:

Pros
medical uses such as paralyzed, blind, amputees have a chance at being able to walk move and see maybe even hear and smell too eventually.
expanding human capability
maybe extending our lives (although this kinda balances between good and bad for me because it seems way too unnatural)
telekinetic type applications are really cool like that board game you move with your mind

cons

-people will use their expanded capability for various crimes. imagine someone breaking into your home with robotic arms you probably couldnt do much to stop them. this will lead to increased police brutality too and then eventually some kind of gov regulation similar to gun control.
-if people start relpacing all their healthy parts with machine ones that really gross somehow
-it will be used for war

im sure there is alot more im just really tired but i like the topic though.


We can have all of the pros without attaching any of it to a warped ideology or cult.

We actually already have been having these things without attaching any transhuman label to any of it.

The Internet certainly "increased" many of our abilities to do many different things, and that certainly didn't involve a transhuman agenda.


if you are talking about uploading our mind into a computer, i agree, that's dumb and very much cultish. it might make for a really spectacular mass suicide though of all the people who fall for thinking its real.


Not sure why anyone would try to "Upload" there mind to a computer unless they were on there deathbed xD

Also it's not really cultish it's just a shared belief and idea of the progression of future technology.
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Posted 4/3/16

nanikore2 wrote:


DarksirenxX wrote:

Pros
medical uses such as paralyzed, blind, amputees have a chance at being able to walk move and see maybe even hear and smell too eventually.
expanding human capability
maybe extending our lives (although this kinda balances between good and bad for me because it seems way too unnatural)
telekinetic type applications are really cool like that board game you move with your mind

cons

-people will use their expanded capability for various crimes. imagine someone breaking into your home with robotic arms you probably couldnt do much to stop them. this will lead to increased police brutality too and then eventually some kind of gov regulation similar to gun control.
-if people start relpacing all their healthy parts with machine ones that really gross somehow
-it will be used for war

im sure there is alot more im just really tired but i like the topic though.


We can have all of the pros without attaching any of it to a warped ideology or cult.

We actually already have been having these things without attaching any transhuman label to any of it.

The Internet certainly "increased" many of our abilities to do many different things, and that certainly didn't involve a transhuman agenda.



You must keep in mind it's only "Warped" and a "Cult" in your opinion and view as it stands Transhumanism is not a cult.

Warped? well that depends on the person viewing it and there opinion on it.

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Posted 4/3/16

stars201 wrote:

I would rather have super powers naturally


Would "naturally" include superpowers as a result of radiation exposure? Cause so far that may be your best shot at naturally having superpowers
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Posted 4/3/16

Ryulightorb wrote:

"You can have a great pile of turning gears and humming circuit boards, but it won't be anything living. You can build something that reacts to the environment without building anything living. Replace yourself with machines, and you would be committing suicide.
"

That would depend on what you define as living.
Well, no. That would depend on the actual definition of living. Not the semantics of those who cannot cope with reality.


Humans are no different we just react to the universe through chemical reactions in our brain which is already basically a shit ton of wiring and chemical reactions that make up our decisions and thoughts.

It would be highly possible (not now of course) but in the future to make a being that has the same type of consciousness that we do.
Regardless, it wold just be a simulation, ie. copy, of a living thing.


No one ever said that said life would be exactly the same of course it would be different to an extent because by definition it's not the same as a human.
-.-


You are sounding rather idiotic claiming that something can't be "living" if it is made from a machine or a mixture of machine and cells.
I believe the word you were looking for was realistic, not idiotic.


I mean i understand your OPINION and what your saying and it does sound cultish but none of the arguments you have placed really make any reason to not strive for a future where we can go on living even if what lives on is only just a copy :P
That's... not the same thing at all.


Yes they do not IIRC so it's our job to find a way to prolong or rejuvenate them (if possible) if not the next best possibility is to find a way to copy the memories into a new body creating a clone to live on instead of the original.
While I don't exactly disagree, what's the point of wanting your clone to live on? Once it is separated from you, it's experiences will begin to differ from yours, so the only thing that you two would share would be the past memories. The thing would no longer be a clone of you, by definition.


I personally would be ok with death knowing another me is living on continuing what i want to do with my life and what work i want to get done.
How is this tantamount to you achieving what you want to do? It is not you experiencing it, but someone else.
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Posted 4/3/16 , edited 4/3/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

"You can have a great pile of turning gears and humming circuit boards, but it won't be anything living. You can build something that reacts to the environment without building anything living. Replace yourself with machines, and you would be committing suicide.
"

That would depend on what you define as living.
Well, no. That would depend on the actual definition of living. Not the semantics of those who cannot cope with reality.


Humans are no different we just react to the universe through chemical reactions in our brain which is already basically a shit ton of wiring and chemical reactions that make up our decisions and thoughts.

It would be highly possible (not now of course) but in the future to make a being that has the same type of consciousness that we do.
Regardless, it wold just be a simulation, ie. copy, of a living thing.


No one ever said that said life would be exactly the same of course it would be different to an extent because by definition it's not the same as a human.
-.-


You are sounding rather idiotic claiming that something can't be "living" if it is made from a machine or a mixture of machine and cells.
I believe the word you were looking for was realistic, not idiotic.


I mean i understand your OPINION and what your saying and it does sound cultish but none of the arguments you have placed really make any reason to not strive for a future where we can go on living even if what lives on is only just a copy :P
That's... not the same thing at all.


Yes they do not IIRC so it's our job to find a way to prolong or rejuvenate them (if possible) if not the next best possibility is to find a way to copy the memories into a new body creating a clone to live on instead of the original.
While I don't exactly disagree, what's the point of wanting your clone to live on? Once it is separated from you, it's experiences will begin to differ from yours, so the only thing that you two would share would be the past memories. The thing would no longer be a clone of you, by definition.


I personally would be ok with death knowing another me is living on continuing what i want to do with my life and what work i want to get done.
How is this tantamount to you achieving what you want to do? It is not you experiencing it, but someone else.


Humans are no less of a simulation then a copy would be but you are right it depends on the actual definition of living. (Not sure who you think can't cope with reality?)


It's not realistic eventually we will be at the point where machines will be intergrated into our bodies at the cellular level pretty sure at that point the being is a mix of machine and living cells.

It isn't the same thing but a copy living on is still as good as immortality in my books


It would not be me but it would continue on with my memories it would not be me as you said it would be it's own being but the point of it is i want to leave something to live on after i die and i don't want children i would rather a clone/copy of myself with my memories intact and letting it decide what to do from then on.

It's not achieving what i want so it isn't tantamount to achieving what i want to do however if i die and a copy of me exists there is a high chance it will have the same interests and with my memories want to continue what i wanted in life (it may not by all means to many variables to count).

It's not me experiencing it i'm dead so it's not about me from then on then it's about what i have left behind what creature i have left in my death.



I want to live for a long time and if i can't i want to leave something to live on instead of me a creation of my own that's all i want from life either of the two.

The want to create is why i want to enter the field of programming and one day go for bigger heights but baby steps aiming to high will just leave your wings to burn and make you crash.


Doubt many people will agree with my opinions or views but they are as they are.


My life has only 3 reasons of worth

1. To somehow help Humanity Get closer to Immortality ( Biological)
2. To create a form of life or AI
3. To leave something behind that resembles me and isn't a child.

The first 2 are the most farfetched things though and are unlikely to happen however the third is still possible and is the only reason my life is worth living so i will strive towards it with all of the energy i have and all the time in my life that i have.
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Posted 4/3/16 , edited 4/3/16
Provided the advances are made available to all equally and are not coercive go for it.
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Posted 4/3/16

BlueOni wrote:

Provided the advances are made available to all equally and are not coercive go for it.


That wouldn't be fun at all. We need to have the whole purist vs. transhumanist thing going on. Reminds me of the latest civilisation game.
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Posted 4/3/16
If it'll extend my life, sure, why the hell not.
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Posted 4/3/16 , edited 4/5/16

igniteous wrote:

If it'll extend my life, sure, why the hell not.


pretty much anything in life.

I would probably kill my own parents if doing so gave me immortality.

..let's just hope it never has to come to that i love my parents alot
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Posted 4/3/16
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/ninds_neuron.htm Process of neurogenesis and necrosis.

"Transhumanism", as a concept, tires me. Technology, by itself, extends and improves human life. The very idea of trying to become more than human is probably morally and ethically questionable, if not ludicrous, especially as we're already replacing broken or functionally reduced parts with mechanical equivalents.
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Posted 4/3/16 , edited 4/3/16
As someone who've studied Engineering, I felt inclined to respond to this post,

Transhumanism is a cult, and an unrealistic fantasy.

I feel for anyone who goes into respected fields such as engineering, medicine, or the natural Sciences, thinking they can force some sort of synthetic evolution to occur, they are in my opinion, unrealistic and a little crazy.

Not only are they delusional, but they are also setting themselves up for a world of hurt when they realize that those fields are nothing like what they are portrayed to be in the movies..

Most Engineering jobs are rarely doing any research and development related to anything of the like.

Chances are, you will get a job improving the same technologies we've had for over a century, all while sitting on your ass all day in a cramped cubicle developing blood clots and becoming burned out on all the bullshit corporate rams down your throat.

Smaller niche startups usually get in to these kinds of fantasy based research, and they're no guarantees that such companies will even be around long enough to accomplish anything as they usually run out of money, I mean, not every company can sell bullshit and make a profit like Apple, (OK, I know! Bad joke xD ) Apple isn't all that bad lol.)

If you're one of the few lucky scientist or engineers who got to work at one of the big government backed R&D Universities or companies, it's nothing like the big screen, you will be working on teams, and your research can, and probably will span decades, you may be dead before anything is discovered, and even if you do discover anything, it may be proven to be junk science later on. (This is an description of a typical science job, difference is, they're actually trying to solve immediate problems using realistic approaches with the scientific method as their weapon, and not dreamt up horseshit.)

It's a waste of life in my opinion, you should work, live your life, then die and rot like the rest of us mortals, immortality and becoming omnipotent are two fantasies that are nowhere close to being a possibility.

Please for the love of "whatever" spear me the "They said the same thing about ____ Fill In the blank"

Yes many things were proven possible against all odds, however, if you take a look back at what was being laughed at in those times, You may see that those technological advancements and inventions were not to far off the possibility scale of the scientific theories either..


EDIT: Yeah I know edited many times, I'm tired as hell and made so many spelling errors lol
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Posted 4/3/16
Lizard will give me magical powers!
Because he is a wizard!

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