First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
Post Reply Dude wearing Native American Costume to Yale Causes Chaos
618 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

vanguard1234523 wrote:

If this sounds familiar it's supposed to. Milo's behavior is characteristic of everything he claims to despise. Because free speech isn't his goal and he's never cared about defending it. His view of freedom of speech and expression is a hive mind that ceaselessly echoes the dominant mode of thought. It's inherently selfish and repugnant. He wants to be able to say whatever he wants about other people, but can't stand it when other people criticize him.



I think you're putting too much stock on intent. Intent and motive are slippery things, and what's worse is they're invisible. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of Yiannopoulos's motive is to defeat/slience his enemies, but all of it? Even if he's an asshole, how would you figure out what his motives are? Enough people interpret what he's doing as fighting for free expression, and the public image is all that matters. Further, we're likely to pin motives on people based on what we think of what they're doing, and people in general aren't very charitable. So if you're coming at this from the opposite side as Yiannopoulos, be careful when assigning motives to him.

Finally, motives aren't shared: I might be a feminist because I care about women, and someone else might be a feminist because she wants to ride the movement to some position of power or prestige. Sure, this person is using feminism for personal gain, and I might not like her - I may even think she's evil. But will I kick her out? No - she's working for something good.
22673 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

auroraloose wrote:
I think you're putting too much stock on intent. Intent and motive are slippery things, and what's worse is they're invisible. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of Yiannopoulos's motive is to defeat/slience his enemies, but all of it? Even if he's an asshole, how would you figure out what his motives are? Enough people interpret what he's doing as fighting for free expression, and the public image is all that matters. Further, we're likely to pin motives on people based on what we think of what they're doing, and people in general aren't very charitable. So if you're coming at this from the opposite side as Yiannopoulos, be careful when assigning motives to him.

Finally, motives aren't shared: I might be a feminist because I care about women, and someone else might be a feminist because she wants to ride the movement to some position of power or prestige. Sure, this person is using feminism for personal gain, and I might not like her - I may even think she's evil. But will I kick her out? No - she's working for something good.




Intelligence....that's a rarity. So I'm curious, are there certain feminist speakers you are fond of? Writers perhaps?



618 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16
15947 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / Cold and High
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

auroraloose wrote:
I might be a feminist because I care about women, and someone else might be a feminist because she wants to ride the movement to some position of power or prestige. Sure, this person is using feminism for personal gain, and I might not like her - I may even think she's evil. But will I kick her out? No - she's working for something good.
how again was she working for something good?
didn't get that part.

69881 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Oklahoma
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

vanguard1234523 wrote:


zinjashike wrote:

He's clearly mocking those that feel they need protection from offense.

He's an asshole, sure. So what? You're going to encounter a lot of them in life - he just proves the point that SJW's cannot cope. They are disruptive, authoritarian, and oft violent when they don't get appeased (attempts to provoke conflict are quit consistent).

Even the left is fed up with progressives - I think Milo has a better point than you even if he's wrong on the majority of things. Keep riding on character assassination though, it really shows how weak the arguments are.


The only point Milo proves is how far the reactionary right in this country has fallen into the mire. This is just the latest in his long line of stunts that masquerade as an attempt to uphold free speech which are in fact absolutely nothing of the sort. People calling you on being an asshole does not constitute some authoritarian attempt at repression. The only thing Milo has ever championed is the right of people to say whatever they want to anyone they want and not face any repercussions for it.


Strawman much? People have called Milo an asshole and I've never heard him claim free speech over it. The problem is forms of censorship like de-platforming - especially in cases like education institutions where parts of the student body HAS expressed interest in his speaking as a "notable figure" for better or worse.

Try again.


This is no different. Of course people are upset about this, Milo intends for it to be upsetting. All this talk entails is him telling people who are offended to shut up, stop complaining and accept the thing they took umbrage with.


They can bitch and moan all they want is the point, but equally the point is people don't need to appease their sensibilities - especially at an academic institution of all places.


Not to advance free discourse, but to shut it down. Milo can in fact make these comments, he already has. Constantly. but I don't see why it's suddenly wrong for people to take issue with him doing so. I mean yes this British man of Greek descent clearly has the authority to dictate how native americans should feel about cultural appropriation.


Milo has been part of numerous debates, I don't see how this "shuts discourse down"? I'm rather sure from his behavior that he has zero issues being called an insufferable POS.


This is not to say that there is one correct way to view this. As this thread demonstrates two people of native descent have already expressed differing viewpoints, both in favor of and against this. Which is perfectly fine. It's fine for Milo to disagree about this topic as well. As for my part I tend to come at this from the standpoint that it is rather offensive. Some people even of native descent don't feel this way. And it's not my place to call this view invalid, after all it's their culture we're discussing. Being a snow white irish catholic, it's not my place to speak for them or claim that my left wing perspective trumps theirs. I have my opinion, but I have no authority to call other people wrong for how they feel about the subject. Because it takes a special kind of arrogance to presume you have the authority to dictate to people how they should feel about representations of their culture when you're not a part of that culture yourself.


No one is telling them how to feel, another wonderful strawman you setup to tackle eh?


Yet Milo does


Where? He mocks them for being sensitive and having that lead them to tell what others can or can't do.


and has the gall to act as though he's the victim of repression when people criticize him for it.


False, he only said he's being censored when things such as deplatforming, illegal ejection from public venues, etc.occur. You can call him an asshole, he'd probably fucking laugh and mock your lack of originality.


Because what Milo's actual deal is isn't about freeing up the discourse, it's about fostering control of it. That's all he and this reactionary fringe has ever cared about, preserving their ability to dominate the discourse. Sure they have the right to be arrogant and deliberately mean-spirited pricks but the second anyone says anything against them suddenly they're called censors. Any time someone expresses dissent from their view of the matter they get dog-piled and silenced.


Except this hasn't been shown here. At all.


Yeah there's a segment of progressives like this


Funny how you like to make sweeping generalizations about your opposites, but it's only a "segment" when it's about yourself. Ho-hum.


I used to have laughs at their expense back in those days when social justice warrior still meant something.


"I fear for my life because someone wrote Trump in chalk!"

They still exist.


But if the last few years have demonstrated anything to me, it's that this segments opposite number has grown drastically worse in size and scale. The same people who complain about how thin-skinned social justice warriors are, are the first ones to freak out whenever someone disparages them.


Call me an asshole, cunt, or tell me I should have been aborted. Guess what? Oh, I'm still FINE because I'm not an insufferable sniveling narcissistic ego fed piece of shit.

Yeah, real thin skinned



They cannot deal with other people's opinions and seek to shut them down. And that's the ultimate freaking hypocrisy here. The only freedom of expression this reactionary fringe gives two shits about is it's own. They hate anyone else's.


I am happy you have your opinion. If, however, you were to seek out my employer in an attempt to get my fired over an opinion I held which . . . well, which stifles discourse more? I've yet to see the right go about this recently, but boy do SocJus love this tactic.


An open discussion about this issue would be welcome, but that's the last thing Milo wants. What he wants is to end that discussion before it starts like he always does. Because the only voices that matter to him are the ones that echo the groupthink. His view of free speech is one in which the dominant and correct way of thinking is able to crowd out and effectively smother any dissent. This isn't a view exclusive to him by any means. Like I've said, the people who actually qualified as "social justice warriors" back when that term hadn't lost all meaning, used to and still do act like this. It's just really hard to see them with the way the other side swarms like a destructive plague of locusts.


Strawman again? How much time do you have for these?


The only thing Milo's crowd gives two shits about is having their way.


I actually care that art is able to be expressed, bad and good ideas/opinions get brought into light and either drug out back and killed via mockery or adopted, and that we have a workforce in the next generation that can actually function when someone says they don't have time to teach them instead of screaming grievances of sexism or microagressions.


There is one right way of thinking about things, and all dissent from that opinion is invalid. Any one else's voice is invalid. Anything that does not echo the dominant mode of thought is invalid. Critics become censors because they disagree. People who feel something is offensive are hysterical by default and their opinions don't matter. The only point of view that matters is their own.


You keep winding this up. You say a lot and add NOTHING in an attempt to sound authoritative. Been there done that, it's an attempt to make your argument look stronger than it is.


If this sounds familiar it's supposed to. Milo's behavior is characteristic of everything he claims to despise. Because free speech isn't his goal and he's never cared about defending it. His view of freedom of speech and expression is a hive mind that ceaselessly echoes the dominant mode of thought. It's inherently selfish and repugnant. He wants to be able to say whatever he wants about other people, but can't stand it when other people criticize him.


Please, cite me EVIDENCE of this claim where he has attempted to shut-down free speech due to someone critical of his character. I've seen one video where he mentioned that they were slandering him saying he tweeted death threats which was provably false. Beyond that I haven't seen anything noteworthy.


In his view people's opinions and freedom of speech should be respected only if they coincide with his own. As for ones that aren't part of that collective? Well, he and his cronies are very good at burying them, and shouting them down.

Sorry I think Milo trying to mock people for being intolerant of other people's opinions falls a little flat when there are very few people more intolerant of other people's opinions.


Once again, wasting space on Crunchy's server to appear strong, might work for some of the peanut gallery.
13153 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16

vanguard1234523 wrote:. I mean yes this British man of Greek descent clearly has the authority to dictate how native americans should feel about cultural appropriation.

-Snipped most of this very long quote-



You've missed the point. The point is not to say "Native Americans shouldn't be offended about this", the point is "we shouldn't police potentially offensive speech". This whole debacle was about the idea of banning offensive costumes by Universities such as Yale (as previously stated, there is a huge difference between saying "this is offensive" and "this shouldn't be allowed"). It is about colleges as an authoritarian presence and students who advocate for authoritarianism.

I also disagree with your assessment about the balance of power between (lets call them) SJWs and anti-SJWs. While the numbers may be on the side of the anti-SJWs (although I doubt it), the power is not. Quite clearly, as voices in the media and on Universities, the left wing is far more powerful. Look at virtually any instance where Milo is opposite another guest on some news program or in a debate and almost universally, it becomes a dogpile where the "moderator" jumps on Milo and tries to dismiss his points or attack him (often without reason).

The fact is, there is a very loud and very powerful minority who Milo is speaking against quite frequently, and as such he actively tries to engage in discussions with them (that isn't to say he doesn't maintain that he is right in these discussions or act flippantly). Saying that he is attempting to "shut down discussion before it starts" is just silly, because the discussion started long ago and many "anti-SJW" people are still fighting to get some word in.
runec 
28348 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

Rujikin wrote:
Meanwhile in Germany and India..... Germans are forced to be associated with the swastika as a symbol of evil and their past while India watched their sacred symbol of peace be used as a symbol for evil. So How do you solve this situation Mr SJW? Getting Using a Swastika is an insult to Jews, not using a Swastika is an insult to indians/finns, and Swastika's are banned in Germany which means so are Indians symbol of peace.


Did you seriously just Godwin the thread responding to the one person in the thread that was trying to explain the problem from the perspective of the culture being offended? And *still* called them an SJW on top of that? Christ, man. Way to confirm SJW is a meaningless term thrown out at people you disagree with.

6930 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M
Offline
Posted 4/8/16
What is actually wrong with these people?

Did they fall on their heads or something?

This is almost not even news but like some kinda of form of entertainment of watching stupid people. xD
5019 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 4/8/16
Oh no! someone did something... I'M OFFENDED!
27254 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16
There are people who claimed to feel physically ill and fearful for their own safety when he spoke on campus. They had EMERGENCY COUNSELING BECAUSE THEY WERE TRAUMATIZED BY MILO'S WORDS and they were trying to bar him from speaking through physical force while claiming Milo's speech was violence. I mean, come on. Even if he is what he despises, he, at least, admits that he is doing certain things and saying certain things to provoke reactions that prove his point. His opponents do worse things and they don't even realize they are doing it. He waits his turn to speak while they try to silence him. He says things that are merely rude that aren't threatening, yet the opposition zooms in and blows it up into a grand rights issue.

I still don't get why people are offended FOR others. If it's not offensive enough for them to speak out, it's most certainly not your problem to worry about.
10771 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / MO, USA
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

Rujikin wrote:

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/06/milo-yiannopoulos-plan-to-wear-native-american-costume-to-yale-causes-chaos/


Breitbart Tech editor Milo Yiannopoulos has caused a stir on Yale University’s campus for his plan to give a lecture on cultural appropriation in full Native American garb and headdress right before Halloween.

Yiannopoulos’ plan is a response to a recent campus controversy at Yale where students took issue with a professor’s suggestion that students should be free to wear potentially-offensive Halloween costumes.

A video of Yale student Jerelyn Luther yelling at professor Nicholas Christakis about his stance on cultural appropriation went viral in November. In the video, Luther tells Christakis to “be quiet,” and reminds him that it’s “his job to create a place of comfort and home to the students,” a job which she felt he violated with an email Christakis’ wife (also a Yale professor) sent defending student’s rights to wear costumes that some might deem culturally offensive.

In response to the chaos, Yiannopoulos tweeted his plans to wear a Native American costume to his speech on Oct. 28 at Yale as part of “The Dangerous Faggot Tour.” “It appears to me [that] that the free lunacy of progressives is taking even America’s best universities, and it seems to me the best way to deal with this culture of outrage is to be outrageous,” Yiannopoulos told the Yale Daily News. “These are ridiculous people who deserve to be provoked.”

Although the event is several months away, there has already been significant student pushback to Yiannopoulos’ upcoming appearance. Yale’s Native American Cultural Center house manager, Kyle Ranieri, claims that Yiannopoulos’ use of Native American garments during his lecture would be “blatant cultural appropriation.”


I really think these people enjoy being angry and triggered. That or they are racist faggots trying to destroy native american culture by making sure no one ever references or speaks of them so they fade from everyone's memory.


As a Native American, it's not that I don't take offence to it, I just don't care. What's "The Dangerous Faggot Tour"?


PrinceJudar wrote:

I taunt my Native American boyfriend by making the stereotypical 'war cry' and asking him about his spirit guide.

He's not dead yet.



On the other hand, I would smack the shit out of this guy.
41721 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16
Of course Yale of all places would have this happen
entitled fucking ivys
618 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16

Freddy96NO wrote:

how again was she working for something good?
didn't get that part.




This is getting off topic, and maybe this was just a joke, but surely you're willing to believe that feminism has done at least some good, right?
runec 
28348 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/8/16 , edited 4/8/16

AkitoMadaka wrote:
What's "The Dangerous Faggot Tour"?


It appears to be a method of monetizing trolling.



auroraloose wrote:
This is getting off topic, but surely you're willing to believe that feminism has done at least some good, right? If not...


Oh god, don't get them started.
618 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Offline
Posted 4/8/16

runec wrote:


auroraloose wrote:
This is getting off topic, but surely you're willing to believe that feminism has done at least some good, right? If not...


Oh god, don't get them started.


Ha, don't worry about me. I'm medicated enough that my hysterics won't take over, and getting angry on the internet isn't worth it anyway. The most you'll ever get from me is an angry Kirino gif, as I identify with her greatly:

First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.