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Autocracy
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27 / M / Samsara
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Posted 2/13/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:

^ It's not about prove you wrong, or not. It's about reality. You want facts? You have facts: look at the first-world countries, do you think they grew up to be what they are because of Anarchy? Are you so obsessed with an impossible dream, that of course didn't have a 'beforehand plan.'

Tell me, how do you see Anarchy for the future, if Anarchy was indeed the way? Tell me how do you see it working. No, no. I am not asking whether it works, or not. I am asking how, if you were to decide, would you see Anarchy for a future?

Anarchy is so ambiguous once you place it in the image of every person. You think everybody would be wise, morally-right, smart, and competitive enough to make it work? Of course not, because we -no longer- live in a world where people can be unified. Face the facts, people don't get along. People -as I said before,- are greed.

I am not completely against Anarchy, read older posts of mine if you don't believe so, but I do realize the flaws of it. I know governments are this, and that. They don't work like they -in theory- should, but without them we would have chaos.

The fact that a certain percentage of people think positively, and differently -in a good way,- doesn't mean everybody will think the same way. There is a limit to be naive, even for those that think different.


I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation hear,if you can't support your words with facts then what good are your rebuttals. They hold as much weight as

First World countries are categorized as such because of their economy, not because of the state of their government.Take a look at Taiwan,the government is ridiculously corrupt yet the state of their economy is superb. Again you assume that society will collapse along with the state. In Somalia in the absence of a state and its institutions, the private sector grew "impressively" according to the World Bank in 2003, particularly in the areas of trade, commerce, transport, remittance and infrastructure services and in the primary sectors, notably in livestock, agriculture and fisheries. Had this state of existence continued then Somalia would have had a first world economy within the next hundred years.

And do you think that those who join societies and will not do their part in it will have a place in the community?Do you think that Anarchy is all about peace?Anarchy is formlessness,it gives the individual the real opportunity to rise and fall according to their will,but the concept of society carries on in Anarchy,in our current society there are those who don't do their parts and those people are called "bums",our society treats them with contempt and disgust.If the society that forms has a socialist outlook then those unfortunate souls shall be helped,if they retain their old ways than the law of reciprocal altruism comes into play and either they shall be casted out or as in anarcho-primitive societies,killed.Yes killing is perfectly acceptable in Anarchy,it all depends on the community.If someone disagrees with your views then you have the right to kill them,and there will be no police to punish you for it,the only thing you have to worry about is getting killed by that persons family and friends.

Anarchy does not demand anything of anyone,one may choose to join a form a society, join one, or not be in one.As I said Anarchy makes no promises and breaks none.You can be anything you want,literally for the first time in your life those words will be true.
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M / In Memphis, with...
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Posted 2/13/08
^ You seem to be forgetting the most important part of any kind of society, with all your arguments about idealistic utopia-like dreams: the people. I am sad to let tell you this, because I for one am not well aware of the matter, education, and knowledge is not what it is supposed to be in every country. Saying it straight, there are too many ignorant people, people that for x, or y reasons didn't assist to school.

I have a wide concept, and knowledge about what your Anarchy is. I support my words with facts, like say society we live in, does it prove to be wrong? How? I don't think so. On the other hand it proved to be better than Anarchy, accept the facts instead of asking for explanations that are there, but you don't want to see.

With so few knowledgeable, and educate people, you can't guarantee the success of anything. "You can be anything you want, literally," what would the choose of those 'ignorant,' -excuse the crude expression,- people be? What will they be? You might say, "whatever they want to be," but, what would that be of benefit for them, if they have no idea of what the answer is.

People tend to take the easy way, and they do, that is a fact. Now imagine this situation all over the world, soon enough that Anarchy will turn into a Liberalism. I know your Anarchy have no mean for that, it is not even the same. But you can't control things, and things won't end up as you want, expect, or dream to be. People will always be there to ruin it, then see Anarchy been a Liberalism, or a form of Liberalism. This been just a case scenario, you might want to deny it, but it is very possible. Unless you turn all humans to think the way you think.
Posted 2/13/08
Autocracy, is that what Alexander Hamilton wanted for America to become?
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28 / M / A series of tubes
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Posted 2/13/08
Haha! if it isn't another angsty philosophical post from everyone's favorite 14-year-old emo poster.

In his last thread, "is homicide wrong?" he sought to prove to everyone what an a-moral nihilist he was. I should have expected that you were an anarchist too. Maybe once you'll grow up and make the easy transition into extreme libertarianism.

The posts from fellow emo pseudo-intellectuals trying to sound smart by taking the unpopular stance of agreeing with you is quite lulzy.

As usual, If you are a troll, you are quite the successful one.
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40 / M / dgs
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Posted 2/13/08
hmm, doesn't the type of government and economy goes hand in hand?

if anarchy have to persist in the long run, would the economy continues to grow?

nobody will want to invest in a formless state of government like anarchy. To continue to prosper, anarchy have to evolve into a form of government like democracy, republic etc.

a common sense question will be, would anyone want to visit Somalia as a tourist in view of its "impressive" growth?

any takers?
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27 / M / Samsara
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Posted 2/14/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:

^ You seem to be forgetting the most important part of any kind of society, with all your arguments about idealistic utopia-like dreams: the people. I am sad to let tell you this, because I for one am not well aware of the matter, education, and knowledge is not what it is supposed to be in every country. Saying it straight, there are too many ignorant people, people that for x, or y reasons didn't assist to school.

I have a wide concept, and knowledge about what your Anarchy is. I support my words with facts, like say society we live in, does it prove to be wrong? How? I don't think so. On the other hand it proved to be better than Anarchy, accept the facts instead of asking for explanations that are there, but you don't want to see.

With so few knowledgeable, and educate people, you can't guarantee the success of anything. "You can be anything you want, literally," what would the choose of those 'ignorant,' -excuse the crude expression,- people be? What will they be? You might say, "whatever they want to be," but, what would that be of benefit for them, if they have no idea of what the answer is.

People tend to take the easy way, and they do, that is a fact. Now imagine this situation all over the world, soon enough that Anarchy will turn into a Liberalism. I know your Anarchy have no mean for that, it is not even the same. But you can't control things, and things won't end up as you want, expect, or dream to be. People will always be there to ruin it, then see Anarchy been a Liberalism, or a form of Liberalism. This been just a case scenario, you might want to deny it, but it is very possible. Unless you turn all humans to think the way you think.


In the field of academics you have to support your point with cold hard facts.Otherwise it can be easily toppled like a house of cards.You have to make a better point that just saying "The society we live in".
And yet surprisingly with all your assumptions about human nature,people have acted differently to your expectations.

Our society is better?Are you blind?Have you seen what happens in our society?In our society people are treated like cattle, being milked by governments and corporations.People lead their lives in silent desperation, go to work, raise a family, and die. Society tells us to be good cattle and eat the mush that the farmers give us.And when one acts out for the greater good and for justice,he is punished.When there is war,they send us off to die in an unknown land where no one will remember our names.And who sent us there?The politicians.Who started the war?Our leaders.

That's the society we live in,that is what the state subjects us to.

You don't have to be knowledgeable and intelligent to guarantee that Anarchy will work.When people come to realize that the existence of a state is unnecessary,then they will have no need to form one,Somalia is a perfect example of that.You just like so many have been pre-ordained from birth to believe that the existence of a state is necessary for the existence of a society.

As I've said over and over again,Anarchy makes not promises and breaks none.It's not up to me or anyone to say what will happen in that state of Anarchy.But I do know that throughout history its shown that Anarchy has only collapsed due to outside forces such as an invading army.
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27 / M / Samsara
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Posted 2/14/08

dkcy209 wrote:

hmm, doesn't the type of government and economy goes hand in hand?

if anarchy have to persist in the long run, would the economy continues to grow?

nobody will want to invest in a formless state of government like anarchy. To continue to prosper, anarchy have to evolve into a form of government like democracy, republic etc.

a common sense question will be, would anyone want to visit Somalia as a tourist in view of its "impressive" growth?

any takers?


The USSR had a communist dictatorship yet had a first world economy.

A famous economist Murray Rothbard stated that the state impedes growth and are responsible for creating such vile institutions such as corporations.In Somalia the economy grew organically without without the state.
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40 / M / dgs
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Posted 2/14/08
Ermm...since then USSR have broken up into many countries and Russia is struggling in terms with its economy.

By the way, communist is not a dictatorship or anarchy state of government.

Its still very hard to see how anarchy do spur economy. Which foreign investors would invest in an anarchy country?
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27 / M / Samsara
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Posted 2/14/08

dkcy209 wrote:

Ermm...since then USSR have broken up into many countries and Russia is struggling in terms with its economy.

By the way, communist is not a dictatorship or anarchy state of government.

Its still very hard to see how anarchy do spur economy. Which foreign investors would invest in an anarchy country?


I said had.Past tense.

I know that communism is not a government form,I'm just saying that the style of their economy is communist and I never said that anarchy was a government either,what I said was that it was a state of being.

Apparently a considerable amount of investors would invest in a country in anarchy, in 2004 a Coca-Cola bottling company opened up in Mogadishu.And according to the CIA factbook:

Despite the seeming anarchy, Somalia’s service sector has managed to survive and grow… Mogadishu’s main market offers a variety of goods from food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate, and militias provide security. -CIA Factbook
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M / America, Fuck Yeah.
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Posted 2/14/08

Hawker wrote:

Nayru you are hawt



Why thank you
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25 / M / Whispering Rock P...
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Posted 2/14/08

Nayru wrote:


Hawker wrote:

Nayru you are hawt



Why thank you


How immature. >:(
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M / America, Fuck Yeah.
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Posted 2/14/08

Cain wrote:


Nayru wrote:


Hawker wrote:

Nayru you are hawt



Why thank you


How poop. >:(


And you're caling me immature?
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25 / M / Whispering Rock P...
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Posted 2/14/08

Nayru wrote:


Cain wrote:


Nayru wrote:


Hawker wrote:

Nayru you are hawt



Why thank you


How immature >:(


I'm not even a mod! I just poop on my keyboard and see what words it makes!


I rest my case.
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40 / M / dgs
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Posted 2/14/08

Hawker wrote:


dkcy209 wrote:

Ermm...since then USSR have broken up into many countries and Russia is struggling in terms with its economy.

By the way, communist is not a dictatorship or anarchy state of government.

Its still very hard to see how anarchy do spur economy. Which foreign investors would invest in an anarchy country?


I said had.Past tense.

I know that communism is not a government form,I'm just saying that the style of their economy is communist and I never said that anarchy was a government either,what I said was that it was a state of being.

Apparently a considerable amount of investors would invest in a country in anarchy, in 2004 a Coca-Cola bottling company opened up in Mogadishu.And according to the CIA factbook:

Despite the seeming anarchy, Somalia’s service sector has managed to survive and grow… Mogadishu’s main market offers a variety of goods from food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate, and militias provide security. -CIA Factbook


past tense? ermm...

This is even better as history shows that anarchy do not last. Economy never progress to the benefits brought about by other system like capitalism.

If you quote Somalia as example, what have you not bring up the unrest and danger that is happening there due to Anarchy?

Does anyone want to live in an anarchy nation or move to Somalia or Mogadishu to experience the benefits that anarchy have? If yes, I rest my case.

With this, my discussion on Anarchy will end. After all, this topic is on Autocracy. We should focus on that instead.

P.S: Just curious, you are quoting from CIA and using Coca-Cola as example. One is a government body while another is a foreign corporation. Since you say "In our society people are treated like cattle, being milked by governments and corporations." Are you still believing these sources?
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Posted 2/14/08
no i dont.............
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