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Post Reply The Friend zone Argumentative Discussion
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Posted 4/14/16
Lol, another one of these.

A big problem for people that take pride in apparently being a "nice guy" is that most of the time they seem almost too scared to offend women. This means that they basically suck at flirting and 99% of the time don't even flirt at all because it goes against their whole persona. The reason "bad boys" get girls is because they're not afraid to bust women's balls, tease them, and crack jokes. They're not obsessed with being politically correct or being "boring."
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Posted 4/14/16
Jeesh, I try to say "people who talk about the 'friend zone' and 'nice guys' aren't terrible sexists" but then you guys say things like "females are not responsible nor respectful human beings". Like Jesus, nobody owes you shit. Yeah, it sucks when you start liking a friend and they don't reciprocate, I've been there, but people like who they like. Get the fuck over it and stop blaming others.
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Posted 4/14/16

Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:


wingsofinsanity wrote:

OP you aren't actually a 'nice guy', despite how often you say it. You clearly don't give nearly enough respect to the wishes of the women you associate with. Be happy being a friend. Respect that they don't find you date-able/fuck-able. Move on.

Now, go to the gym, read mind expanding literature, watch deep animu, buy some nice clothes and get used to wearing them. Get the hell out of the house and go meet girls. Buy into a dating service. Sign up on a dating website; spend time on that dating website. Read How to Date for Dummies (google it).

*edit, buy some product, put it on your face/hair, get a hair cut, shave/trim, put some care into your appearance.


I respect your opinion, and I respect their wishes; however, I do "not" respect being mistreated because if I ask the question, "What does my friendship mean to you?" then I usually get silence, stutter, rage or simple answers. I have yet to get any answers that qualifies as "You can write a book about me," which my true friends are very capable of accomplishing. Furthermore, I am under no obligation to respect their wishes to continue being friends with them after rejection.

If more females took the initiative to confess their romantic interest to a guy that they find appealing to date and rejection occurs, then would we have a lot less friend zoning? A step further, a guy takes advantage of her to fulfill sexual desires, then plot twist to maintaining friends with benefit. Just a thought.

Lastly, the advice you gave me is something I already do, and how can one date if not given the opportunity?


No offense, but the bolded part is complete bs. You have plenty of opportunities, you just refuse to take advantage of them. There are over 300 million people living in America, and you say there's NO OPPORTUNITY TO DATE? C'mon man, you're just being picky. At least own up to it.
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Posted 4/14/16

sundin13 wrote:

Jeesh, I try to say "people who talk about the 'friend zone' and 'nice guys' aren't terrible sexists" but then you guys say things like "females are not responsible nor respectful human beings". Like Jesus, nobody owes you shit. Yeah, it sucks when you start liking a friend and they don't reciprocate, I've been there, but people like who they like. Get the fuck over it and stop blaming others.


That's one thing I've never understood. No one owes you a damn thing when it comes to feelings of love. I often find these people tend to be extremely controlling.
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Posted 4/14/16 , edited 4/14/16

trmjkd989 wrote:

No offense, but the bolded part is complete bs. You have plenty of opportunities, you just refuse to take advantage of them. There are over 300 million people living in America, and you say there's NO OPPORTUNITY TO DATE? C'mon man, you're just being picky. At least own up to it.


Correct, 300 million+ to date in America alone. Billions to date world wide; however, it is not practical. Both male and female are picky to a certain degree, and picky is not the right word in this case, but I do have preferences even yourself. Online dating sites are configured to setup preferences. I honestly see no point in your statement here.


trmjkd989 wrote:

That's one thing I've never understood. No one owes you a damn thing when it comes to feelings of love. I often find these people tend to be extremely controlling.


Correct, no one owes me a damn thing when it comes to feeling of love; however, you stated another stereotype of the nice guy persona. I am not controlling, and she is free to do as she desires because how can I expect the same of her? Furthermore, the family pressure if I decide to act in a controlling manner? The only thing I control is myself, video games, driving my car, technology (since I am an IT Tech), etc. She can dress how she wants, she can go where she wants, she can go out all night if she wants because the last thing I want is to develop trust issues and start accusing. I've seen the damage done in my family because of it, and I do not want to repeat.


trmjkd989 wrote:

Lol, another one of these.

A big problem for people that take pride in apparently being a "nice guy" is that most of the time they seem almost too scared to offend women. This means that they basically suck at flirting and 99% of the time don't even flirt at all because it goes against their whole persona. The reason "bad boys" get girls is because they're not afraid to bust women's balls, tease them, and crack jokes. They're not obsessed with being politically correct or being "boring."


Another stereotype. I do not suck at flirting, teasing or crack jokes. I am adventurous, I have travel to several different countries, I like recreational activities like sky diving, water ski, wake boarding, snow ski, morning runs, Martial Arts, playing on the soccer field with friends with a 6 foot soccer ball, etc. I am a nerd, but I guess I do not fit the typical nerd. I am a nice guy; period, but once I am friend zone after confessing, then I admit, I do not like maintaining the friendship. It is just who I am, what I choose, and it was nice knowing them.
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Posted 4/14/16 , edited 4/14/16

sundin13 wrote:

Jeesh, I try to say "people who talk about the 'friend zone' and 'nice guys' aren't terrible sexists" but then you guys say things like "females are not responsible nor respectful human beings". Like Jesus, nobody owes you shit. Yeah, it sucks when you start liking a friend and they don't reciprocate, I've been there, but people like who they like. Get the fuck over it and stop blaming others.


No one is blaming, it is just a discussion about friend zoning. I based it on the individual level if they are disrespectful and not as an entire group because everyone is different; for example, the nice guy persona. Automatically, I am already stereotyped, stigmatized, labeled, and grouped with all the thoughts associated with the nice guy rather than basing it on the individual level. It is amusing, and I am rather used to it.
People like who they like indeed but it simply comes down to individual choice what to do after being rejected. As some stated, some remain friends; meanwhile, other disappears.

Would you mind sharing what you did when you confessed and got rejected?
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Posted 4/14/16 , edited 4/14/16

Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:


Would you mind sharing what you did when you confessed and got rejected?


Carried on as if nothing happened.
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Posted 4/14/16

Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Jeesh, I try to say "people who talk about the 'friend zone' and 'nice guys' aren't terrible sexists" but then you guys say things like "females are not responsible nor respectful human beings". Like Jesus, nobody owes you shit. Yeah, it sucks when you start liking a friend and they don't reciprocate, I've been there, but people like who they like. Get the fuck over it and stop blaming others.


No one is blaming, it is just a discussion about friend zoning. I based it on the individual level if they are disrespectful and not as an entire group because everyone is different; for example, the nice guy persona. Automatically, I am already stereotyped, stigmatized, labeled, and grouped with all the thoughts associated with the nice guy rather than basing it on the individual level. It is amusing, and I am rather used to it.
People like who they like indeed but it simply comes down to individual choice what to do after being rejected. As some stated, some remain friends; meanwhile, other disappears.

Would you mind sharing what you did when you confessed and got rejected?


Mr. Blue is laying on the bullshit pretty thick, but I'll drop it.

Anyways, I don't really have much of a story. I liked a girl, she was pretty much my best friend. I knew she didn't like me. I got depressed and a bit self destructive. I told her how I felt, got over it and moved on, trying to focus on being a good friend. Unfortunately she went to college across the country and we haven't kept in touch as well as I would have liked, but I don't blame her for anything.
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Posted 4/14/16
There's no such thing as friendzone, since this term was invented people started to place themselves into this state, if you tell someone that you want to be with him/her and he/she replies with a negative answer then is up to you to move on or not, to leave that person or not, seriously when you have other things, bigger things to care, you look at friendship and relationship problems and see them as a really small part of life.
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Posted 4/14/16

sundin13 wrote:

Mr. Blue is laying on the bullshit pretty thick, but I'll drop it.

Anyways, I don't really have much of a story. I liked a girl, she was pretty much my best friend. I knew she didn't like me. I got depressed and a bit self destructive. I told her how I felt, got over it and moved on, trying to focus on being a good friend. Unfortunately she went to college across the country and we haven't kept in touch as well as I would have liked, but I don't blame her for anything.


Thank you for sharing your experience. Just like you, I do not blame them, it is their choice, just like it is my choice to continue being friends or not.
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Posted 4/14/16

Lacrom wrote:

There's no such thing as friendzone, since this term was invented people started to place themselves into this state, if you tell someone that you want to be with him/her and he/she replies with a negative answer then is up to you to move on or not, to leave that person or not, seriously when you have other things, bigger things to care, you look at friendship and relationship problems and see them as a really small part of life.


Correct, well said; however, I disagree with friendship and relationship problems as a really small part of life because if one accomplishes everything he or she wanted, then the last big part of life is to start a family which comes right back to how it all begins. Despite what I said, there are exceptions, but I am solely focusing on the majority.
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Posted 4/14/16

Correct, 300 million+ to date in America alone. Billions to date world wide; however, it is not practical. Both male and female are picky to a certain degree, and picky is not the right word in this case, but I do have preferences even yourself. Online dating sites are configured to setup preferences. I honestly see no point in your statement here.


The point in my statement is that you are given MANY opportunities to date, but due to various reasons (such as personal pref.) you limit yourself. I never said I didn't have preferences when it comes to women. But I also never said I didn't have any opportunities to date because that's a flat out lie.


Correct, no one owes me a damn thing when it comes to feeling of love; however, you stated another stereotype of the nice guy persona. I am not controlling, and she is free to do as she desires because how can I expect the same of her? Furthermore, the family pressure if I decide to act in a controlling manner? The only thing I control is myself, video games, driving my car, technology (since I am an IT Tech), etc. She can dress how she wants, she can go where she wants, she can go out all night if she wants because the last thing I want is to develop trust issues and start accusing. I've seen the damage done in my family because of it, and I do not want to repeat.


I said I often find said people controlling. I didn't say you specifically were controlling.


Another stereotype. I do not suck at flirting, teasing or crack jokes. I am adventurous, I have travel to several different countries, I like recreational activities like sky diving, water ski, wake boarding, snow ski, morning runs, Martial Arts, playing on the soccer field with friends with a 6 foot soccer ball, etc. I am a nerd, but I guess I do not fit the typical nerd. I am a nice guy; period, but once I am friend zone after confessing, then I admit, I do not like maintaining the friendship. It is just who I am, what I choose, and it was nice knowing them.


Again, nowhere did I specifically mention you. I was referring to the general population of people that proudly wave the "nice guy" flag around. And no offense, but if you didn't suck at flirting you wouldn't be getting "friend zoned" so much. It's kind of impossible to get "friend zoned" when going out to clubs or parties and talking to random women. You also never mentioned if you've dated a lot in the past or are inexperienced.
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Posted 4/14/16

Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:

The friend zone, the battle between both parties desires that leads to questionable emotions. I understand both sides, and I am looking towards to constructive opinionated feedback.

A guy confesses his romantic interest towards a female, and she rejects and wants to remain friends. The guy may decide to disappear from her life or need space away from her before accepting being just friends; on the other hand, the female, depending on the guy's reaction, may think he was "never" a friend to begin with due to being just a friend for an opportunity to date or accepts the guy's need for time way before continuing the friend on a comfortable level. In this basic scenario, if a female has the choice to reject a guy's romantic interest, then the guy has the choice to reject the female's continuing friendship interest; vice versa.


I agree 100%, people can do what they want. If she's going to reject you, you don't have to be her friend if you don't want too, some people make good friends and bad lovers and vice versa. Human emotions aren't that complex and if you want something you can't have, you simply release it back into the pond, never to be seen again.



A step further into a deeper discussion. Once the rejection occurs, emotion stirs up for both whereas the guy feels uncomfortable being around her after the rejection. The female feels angry and mad about throwing away friendship because of rejection which eventually leads to the thought he or she was never a friend.


If you get rejected in the first week/month than its perfectly normal and acceptable. These emotions would exist years down the line, this is one of the reasons why you don't wait to ask someone out. Things get weirder if you ask someone out a year later rather than week 1.


Let's take a moment to a discuss a friendship. A friendship is a mutual bond of similar interest , history (like childhood friends), common values, etc. In addition, there are various types of friendship such as the friend who you call to have a good time, the friend that shares your inner most thoughts (a best friend), the self-esteem friend that provides emotional support, the casual friend just someone to talk, hang out casually, and friends with benefits, etc. A friendship is similar to like a job that qualifies to meet a certain criteria. What codons a true friendship? Is it easier to think of a true friend of the same sex versus applying that same concept to the opposite sex?


There isn't a "true" friendship, since "friendship" itself is subjective.


Face it, rejection hurts emotionally; period either through romantic interest or lead on to believe was a friend, then disappears.


Yes, I don't reject anyone without a good reason. So all my male friends are potential partners, I do not play favorites.


Discuss your thoughts.

---------------------------Extra---------------------------

I wrote this because I get friend zone a lot because I have the nice guy persona; keep it simple. I also provide the self-esteem and have fun friendship roles. I have been rejected, and I simply disappear or fade out. They get mad about why I would throw away friendship because of rejection? It is simply due to there are other friends to fulfill those roles, and I do not feel like providing all of her desires while I am left to suffer in an emotional way. Lastly, I have friends on understandable terms like we will never be romantically involved because of different religious beliefs, complete opposite personality, etc.




You get rejected because you don't have what they want. If you're a guy dealing with girls, than you're going to get rejected a very high % of the time.

Girls want a few things, the more you have, the better.

1. Wealth (Money, resources, expensive luxuries and property)

2. Status (How many people know you, how many girls want you, how important will they be if they hang out with you)

3. Physique (bigger than themselves, muscular, tall, normally white skin is the most valuable among all female groups barring Native American women)


Those three things are the most important, most guys are nice enough, most guys are funny enough, most guys are normal and relatable enough.

Women want men on a higher tier than themselves in every category. If you keep getting friend zoned, it's because they thought you weren't a big enough fish and you were too average. Due to this biological programming, without societal pressure or immediate benefits, women and men will never pair up in high numbers since the by product of their psychology is gonna make 100% of women lock on to a minority of man.

If all men were "bad boys" evolutionary psychology will have them lock on to smaller percentage, even if all men were perfectly eligible.

You're getting rejected, but the truth is, most guys get rejected all the same, if you don't appear valuable to her or you don't have immediate benefits to her, you will likely be rejected. If you stay in the friend zone, work out, get a high paying job and girls suddenly start trying to contact you often, the women that friend zoned you will reevaluate you and now deem you to be a potential mate.

This is female psychology being female psychology, and there is no way to direct it anymore, if you want sex, work out and only tell the interesting bits about you that paints a good picture, make sure she's drinking alcohol because it works like a charm to get laid.

If you're looking for a long term relationship and/or companion, aim for women in a lower class than yourself.

If you want an "equal" than you're going to have to keep playing the lottery indefinitely.
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Posted 4/14/16 , edited 4/14/16

Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:

The friend zone, the battle between both parties desires that leads to questionable emotions. I understand both sides, and I am looking towards to constructive opinionated feedback.

A guy confesses his romantic interest towards a female, and she rejects and wants to remain friends. The guy may decide to disappear from her life or need space away from her before accepting being just friends; on the other hand, the female, depending on the guy's reaction, may think he was "never" a friend to begin with due to being just a friend for an opportunity to date or accepts the guy's need for time way before continuing the friend on a comfortable level. In this basic scenario, if a female has the choice to reject a guy's romantic interest, then the guy has the choice to reject the female's continuing friendship interest; vice versa.

A step further into a deeper discussion. Once the rejection occurs, emotion stirs up for both whereas the guy feels uncomfortable being around her after the rejection. The female feels angry and mad about throwing away friendship because of rejection which eventually leads to the thought he or she was never a friend.

Let's take a moment to a discuss a friendship. A friendship is a mutual bond of similar interest , history (like childhood friends), common values, etc. In addition, there are various types of friendship such as the friend who you call to have a good time, the friend that shares your inner most thoughts (a best friend), the self-esteem friend that provides emotional support, the casual friend just someone to talk, hang out casually, and friends with benefits, etc. A friendship is similar to like a job that qualifies to meet a certain criteria. What codons a true friendship? Is it easier to think of a true friend of the same sex versus applying that same concept to the opposite sex?

Face it, rejection hurts emotionally; period either through romantic interest or lead on to believe was a friend, then disappears.

Discuss your thoughts.

---------------------------Extra---------------------------

I wrote this because I get friend zone a lot because I have the nice guy persona; keep it simple. I also provide the self-esteem and have fun friendship roles. I have been rejected, and I simply disappear or fade out. They get mad about why I would throw away friendship because of rejection? It is simply due to there are other friends to fulfill those roles, and I do not feel like providing all of her desires while I am left to suffer in an emotional way. Lastly, I have friends on understandable terms like we will never be romantically involved because of different religious beliefs, complete opposite personality, etc.



Credit due where credit is deserved: you are honest with yourself and the women, you had no interest in being friends with them and only wanted to date them and when this failed to materialise, you left. Well done, you are more socially aware than of most "nice guys" out there.
Have a cute anime picture:




However, To put it simply: grow up.

If you are under the impression that being nice to a man or women will result in them dating you, then you are completely wrong. You have to be romantically/sexually attractive to them in some way shape or form. These women rejected you because you were not romantically appealing to them not because you weren’t enough to them. Attraction is important and anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or delusional. You have to being more to the table than the nebulous quality of being “nice”. Not trying to aim below the belt here but have you considered that the women you are attempting to peruse are out of your league? While confidence is critical, being realistic is also important.

Quite frankly, the nice “nice guy persona" is a lame excuse used by both sides who have very little to offer or fail to realise that being nice to someone is a basic requirement. To paraphrase Chris Rock: "that’s just shit you're supposed to do". You were nice to a girl? Congratulations, welcome to basic humanity, next you'll be complaining how you don't get credit for not being a wife beater.
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Posted 4/14/16

Magical-Soul wrote:


Awaken_Riceball_ wrote:

The friend zone, the battle between both parties desires that leads to questionable emotions. I understand both sides, and I am looking towards to constructive opinionated feedback.

A guy confesses his romantic interest towards a female, and she rejects and wants to remain friends. The guy may decide to disappear from her life or need space away from her before accepting being just friends; on the other hand, the female, depending on the guy's reaction, may think he was "never" a friend to begin with due to being just a friend for an opportunity to date or accepts the guy's need for time way before continuing the friend on a comfortable level. In this basic scenario, if a female has the choice to reject a guy's romantic interest, then the guy has the choice to reject the female's continuing friendship interest; vice versa.


I agree 100%, people can do what they want. If she's going to reject you, you don't have to be her friend if you don't want too, some people make good friends and bad lovers and vice versa. Human emotions aren't that complex and if you want something you can't have, you simply release it back into the pond, never to be seen again.



A step further into a deeper discussion. Once the rejection occurs, emotion stirs up for both whereas the guy feels uncomfortable being around her after the rejection. The female feels angry and mad about throwing away friendship because of rejection which eventually leads to the thought he or she was never a friend.


If you get rejected in the first week/month than its perfectly normal and acceptable. These emotions would exist years down the line, this is one of the reasons why you don't wait to ask someone out. Things get weirder if you ask someone out a year later rather than week 1.


Let's take a moment to a discuss a friendship. A friendship is a mutual bond of similar interest , history (like childhood friends), common values, etc. In addition, there are various types of friendship such as the friend who you call to have a good time, the friend that shares your inner most thoughts (a best friend), the self-esteem friend that provides emotional support, the casual friend just someone to talk, hang out casually, and friends with benefits, etc. A friendship is similar to like a job that qualifies to meet a certain criteria. What codons a true friendship? Is it easier to think of a true friend of the same sex versus applying that same concept to the opposite sex?


There isn't a "true" friendship, since "friendship" itself is subjective.


Face it, rejection hurts emotionally; period either through romantic interest or lead on to believe was a friend, then disappears.


Yes, I don't reject anyone without a good reason. So all my male friends are potential partners, I do not play favorites.


Discuss your thoughts.

---------------------------Extra---------------------------

I wrote this because I get friend zone a lot because I have the nice guy persona; keep it simple. I also provide the self-esteem and have fun friendship roles. I have been rejected, and I simply disappear or fade out. They get mad about why I would throw away friendship because of rejection? It is simply due to there are other friends to fulfill those roles, and I do not feel like providing all of her desires while I am left to suffer in an emotional way. Lastly, I have friends on understandable terms like we will never be romantically involved because of different religious beliefs, complete opposite personality, etc.




You get rejected because you don't have what they want. If you're a guy dealing with girls, than you're going to get rejected a very high % of the time.

Girls want a few things, the more you have, the better.

1. Wealth (Money, resources, expensive luxuries and property)

2. Status (How many people know you, how many girls want you, how important will they be if they hang out with you)

3. Physique (bigger than themselves, muscular, tall, normally white skin is the most valuable among all female groups barring Native American women)


Those three things are the most important, most guys are nice enough, most guys are funny enough, most guys are normal and relatable enough.

Women want men on a higher tier than themselves in every category. If you keep getting friend zoned, it's because they thought you weren't a big enough fish and you were too average. Due to this biological programming, without societal pressure or immediate benefits, women and men will never pair up in high numbers since the by product of their psychology is gonna make 100% of women lock on to a minority of man.

If all men were "bad boys" evolutionary psychology will have them lock on to smaller percentage, even if all men were perfectly eligible.

You're getting rejected, but the truth is, most guys get rejected all the same, if you don't appear valuable to her or you don't have immediate benefits to her, you will likely be rejected. If you stay in the friend zone, work out, get a high paying job and girls suddenly start trying to contact you often, the women that friend zoned you will reevaluate you and now deem you to be a potential mate.

This is female psychology being female psychology, and there is no way to direct it anymore, if you want sex, work out and only tell the interesting bits about you that paints a good picture, make sure she's drinking alcohol because it works like a charm to get laid.

If you're looking for a long term relationship and/or companion, aim for women in a lower class than yourself.

If you want an "equal" than you're going to have to keep playing the lottery indefinitely.


Bravo, bravo. Thank you for taking the time to write this, and it was very informative. It is getting pretty late, so I will edit my reply later to continue a discussion

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