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Post Reply Transexual people get the worst in prison
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Posted 4/18/16

JenovaHale wrote:

Yeah because genetic anomalies never occur amirite? Meanwhile while you're at it maybe you'd like to explain hermaphrodites :)?

Marked keyword.


On topic, this is wrong, people should be treated as their identified gender and ignoring this is pure discrimination and sexisim.

Pretty sure discrimination is the unjust treatment of an individual based on a certain category the person happens to be in.

I just see a person being treated as a prisoner. This news story wouldn't even be a thing people gave a fuck about if the person wasn't transgender. The hipocrisy is real.
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Posted 4/18/16

dyme420 wrote:


Also your "you share this belief you must belong to the regressive left" view is very funny to me.

A man's a man. Even if he dresses like a woman, chops off his penis and grows tits. I would rather call him a MAN than an abomination... Which quite frankly is what post-op trans are. I will not however, call them a woman. Women are born with uterus's and have the ability to grow life in their bodies. You can have a vagina whittled out of whatever material you'd like, unless it has a uterus attached at the end able to accept sperm and cultivate life. Then I'm sorry. You're just not a woman. This is not opinion. It's fact.
If it's fact then tell me why even the framers of the transphobic bathroom bills throughout various southern US states like NC and Tenn declare that post-op women with their birth certificate legally changed to female are included in the group who are legally allowed to use the women's restroom.

The bandwagon that says post-op women are not women is officially dead, even among fundamentalist, evangelical circles, it's a pretty well beaten, long dead horse. You might want to get with the times, buddy.

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Posted 4/18/16 , edited 4/18/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


JenovaHale wrote:

Yeah because genetic anomalies never occur amirite? Meanwhile while you're at it maybe you'd like to explain hermaphrodites :)?

Marked keyword.


What about it?


On topic, this is wrong, people should be treated as their identified gender and ignoring this is pure discrimination and sexisim.

Pretty sure discrimination is the unjust treatment of an individual based on a certain category the person happens to be in.

I just see a person being treated as a prisoner. This news story wouldn't even be a thing people gave a fuck about if the person wasn't transgender. The hipocrisy is real.



Errr maybe you seem to be missing the point, but since when is putting a woman in a male prison okay?!?

If she was a ciswoman you'd probably be really angry at this right? hururhurrrr the Hypocrisy is real huhuhururr derp!
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Posted 4/18/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


JenovaHale wrote:

Yeah because genetic anomalies never occur amirite? Meanwhile while you're at it maybe you'd like to explain hermaphrodites :)?

Marked keyword.


On topic, this is wrong, people should be treated as their identified gender and ignoring this is pure discrimination and sexisim.

Pretty sure discrimination is the unjust treatment of an individual based on a certain category the person happens to be in.

I just see a person being treated as a prisoner. This news story wouldn't even be a thing people gave a fuck about if the person wasn't transgender. The hipocrisy is real.


Here's a couple of things wrong I find with your post. Sorry, first time poster, hundredth time lurker, but this seem to be fallacious distraction between what is clearly indicative of separating transgender from a male population and caring about the larger issue. Saying "Why don't you care about men getting raped" doesn't detract from the point, and serves only as a criticism of the group caring rather than argument saying why someone SHOULDN'T care about transgender policy in prison. That's using emotional fallacy and a trap to get people to fluster while not forming an argument of substance on why this is wrong. Hint: It Isn't, and this assumes the person reading it doesn't care about prison rape or only prison rape.

Now to address your point....why is this different from male on male? LGBT prisoners face a variety of discrimination, especially in prison, which essentially seems to be a mass of repressed sexuality and bigotry. Some people feel this warrants a separate bloc, which has already been formed in possibly thousands of prisons throughout the state, to house ANY prison they deem needed the protection. This isn't a new practice.

Take for example, this article on prison life

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_3800/3808_life-in-prison.html


1- Prisoners are segregated by sexual orientation, crime and race, among other factors
"If all you know about prison is from what Hollywood portrays, then you’ll be really surprised. First off, the homosexuality is way off. Homosexuals are in protective custody," says Prisoner F. When you first get processed, "they ask you if you’re gay. They also do a full physical, AIDS test, hepatitis test, etc. There are a lot of men with sex changes (boobs, ass, etc.). If you’re gay, they classify you in the "SNY YARD." SNY stands for Sensitive Needs Yard. SNY consists of prisoners who may be endangered in the company of the general population, and it often includes gays, gang dropouts and child molesters. I asked one officer about the SNY Yard, and he described it as Jurassic Park. And people like Charles Manson and Juan Corona are in a place called PHU, Protective Housing Unit, because they are high-profile people, and people want to beat them up."

As for the general population, while prison officials would argue that the placement of prisoners in certain areas is an extremely complex process and that it’s more the prisoners who "self-segregate," Prisoner F claims that they classify you primarily by race: "When you go to classifications, they put you in with your own race automatically. They [the officers] do it to have the prisoners protect each other, because they have an understanding about each other’s race. It’s like, 'Hey, we’re gonna let you guys stick together to protect yourself.' It works better with the system as long as the system [read: correctional officers] doesn’t get hurt."


So long story short, placing them in the general population does in fact warrant special treatment, because their assholes are in jeopardy by quite a large margin. The system acknowledges this differences and seeks to protect them. That is all, and I ask....what is wrong with that? The criteria is clearly obvious enough that distinction is clear.

This injustice is indubitably tied into LGBT rights and prison rape, and if they choose to focus on one side, that's their prerogative. What, we're going to say to PETA to focus on deforesting, because of the thinly veiled connection to environment? That doesn't make sense.
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Posted 4/18/16 , edited 4/18/16

JenovaHale wrote:

Errr maybe you seem to be missing the point, but since when is putting a woman in a male prison okay?!?

If she was a ciswoman you'd probably be really angry at this right? hururhurrrr the Hypocrisy is real huhuhururr derp!

"She was also denied her hormones, and began to grow facial hair again."

I don't think women need hormonal medication to stifle facial hair growth.

And, no, if it was any other random person I'd just be shocked that some news like this got notoriety.
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Posted 4/18/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Implying rape in prison is anything new.


^
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Posted 4/18/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


JenovaHale wrote:

Errr maybe you seem to be missing the point, but since when is putting a woman in a male prison okay?!?

If she was a ciswoman you'd probably be really angry at this right? hururhurrrr the Hypocrisy is real huhuhururr derp!

"She was also denied her hormones, and began to grow facial hair again."

I don't think women need hormonal medication to stifle facial hair growth.

And, no, if it was any other random person I'd just be shocked that some news like this got notoriety.


Errr you know there are ciswomen with facial hair right? The only treatment for facial hair is electrolysis, laser, waxing or shaving, hormones don't make much of a difference to facial hair sooooo keep firing those pleb blanks breh~
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Posted 4/18/16

ayesharocks wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Implying rape in prison is anything new.


^


Again that's not the issue or the reason theres outrage, the fact they put a woman in a male prison and then she got raped by men is the issue.
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Posted 4/18/16

Blisseychan wrote:

Here's a couple of things wrong I find with your post. Sorry, first time poster, hundredth time lurker,
That's fine. Always speak up if you feel the need to. I value discussion, regardless of whether or not others agree with me.


but this seem to be fallacious distraction between what is clearly indicative of separating transgender from a male population and caring about the larger issue. Saying "Why don't you care about men getting raped" doesn't detract from the point, and serves only as a criticism of the group caring rather than argument saying why someone SHOULDN'T care about transgender policy in prison.
Exactly. I'm pointing out a rather blatant stance of hipocrisy that this news story is attracting.

You seem to have me wrong, it's not that I'm saying we shouldn't care about how the prison system is set-up, but I'm saying that it's fucking stupid that no one cares until it happens to some minority group. So, no. I'm not being fallacious because I'm not even trying to set up an argument or counter the points made by anyone else in regards to the rape problem in prison.


That's using emotional fallacy and a trap to get people to fluster while not forming an argument of substance on why this is wrong. Hint: It Isn't, and this assumes the person reading it doesn't care about prison rape or only prison rape.
And you'd tell me that people do care, eh? Hah.


Now to address your point....why is this different from male on male? LGBT prisoners face a variety of discrimination, especially in prison, which essentially seems to be a mass of repressed sexuality and bigotry. Some people feel this warrants a separate bloc, which has already been formed in possibly thousands of prisons throughout the state, to house ANY prison they deem needed the protection. This isn't a new practice.

Take for example, this article on prison life

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_3800/3808_life-in-prison.htmlI don't believe I ever denied that they are discriminated against.

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-562467.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States#Ramifications_and_statistics
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1

Not sure why you're tieing in rape to homosexuality. Rape is about power, control, and sexual gratification.


So long story short, placing them in the general population does in fact warrant special treatment, because their assholes are in jeopardy by quite a large margin. The system acknowledges this differences and seeks to protect them. That is all, and I ask....what is wrong with that? The criteria is clearly obvious enough that distinction is clear.
No, they can request protective custody, and that's about it.


This injustice is indubitably tied into LGBT rights and prison rape, and if they choose to focus on one side, that's their prerogative.
derp


What, we're going to say to PETA to focus on deforesting, because of the thinly veiled connection to environment? That doesn't make sense.
This isn't anywhere near approaching an apt comparison.
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Posted 4/18/16 , edited 4/18/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Blisseychan wrote:

Here's a couple of things wrong I find with your post. Sorry, first time poster, hundredth time lurker,
That's fine. Always speak up if you feel the need to. I value discussion, regardless of whether or not others agree with me.


but this seem to be fallacious distraction between what is clearly indicative of separating transgender from a male population and caring about the larger issue. Saying "Why don't you care about men getting raped" doesn't detract from the point, and serves only as a criticism of the group caring rather than argument saying why someone SHOULDN'T care about transgender policy in prison.
Exactly. I'm pointing out a rather blatant stance of hipocrisy that this news story is attracting.

You seem to have me wrong, it's not that I'm saying we shouldn't care about how the prison system is set-up, but I'm saying that it's fucking stupid that no one cares until it happens to some minority group. So, no. I'm not being fallacious because I'm not even trying to set up an argument or counter the points made by anyone else in regards to the rape problem in prison.


That's using emotional fallacy and a trap to get people to fluster while not forming an argument of substance on why this is wrong. Hint: It Isn't, and this assumes the person reading it doesn't care about prison rape or only prison rape.
And you'd tell me that people do care, eh? Hah.


Now to address your point....why is this different from male on male? LGBT prisoners face a variety of discrimination, especially in prison, which essentially seems to be a mass of repressed sexuality and bigotry. Some people feel this warrants a separate bloc, which has already been formed in possibly thousands of prisons throughout the state, to house ANY prison they deem needed the protection. This isn't a new practice.

Take for example, this article on prison life

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_3800/3808_life-in-prison.htmlI don't believe I ever denied that they are discriminated against.

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-562467.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States#Ramifications_and_statistics
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1

Not sure why you're tieing in rape to homosexuality. Rape is about power, control, and sexual gratification.


So long story short, placing them in the general population does in fact warrant special treatment, because their assholes are in jeopardy by quite a large margin. The system acknowledges this differences and seeks to protect them. That is all, and I ask....what is wrong with that? The criteria is clearly obvious enough that distinction is clear.
No, they can request protective custody, and that's about it.


This injustice is indubitably tied into LGBT rights and prison rape, and if they choose to focus on one side, that's their prerogative.
derp


What, we're going to say to PETA to focus on deforesting, because of the thinly veiled connection to environment? That doesn't make sense.
This isn't anywhere near approaching an apt comparison.


I was tying it into a larger part of a discussion on the LGBT movement. Essentially, another comparison would be the Negro College fund or NAACP. This doesn't detract from their movements, and the crimes are explicitly tied into criteria concerning a certain group of people.

Another way to look at it was that she WASN'T afforded protection she clearly asked for but they didn't have, which lead to this crime at the first place.

That and hypocrisy fallacy. This is essentially where you call someone out on their hypocrisy, which is actually valid in certain cases, but don't address the charges they levied.

Though you do make a good point. Where was protective custody? They must certainly have protective custody.
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Posted 4/18/16

JenovaHale wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


JenovaHale wrote:

Errr maybe you seem to be missing the point, but since when is putting a woman in a male prison okay?!?

If she was a ciswoman you'd probably be really angry at this right? hururhurrrr the Hypocrisy is real huhuhururr derp!

"She was also denied her hormones, and began to grow facial hair again."

I don't think women need hormonal medication to stifle facial hair growth.

And, no, if it was any other random person I'd just be shocked that some news like this got notoriety.


Errr you know there are ciswomen with facial hair right?
Point?


The only treatment for facial hair is electrolysis, laser, waxing or shaving, hormones don't make much of a difference to facial hair sooooo keep firing those pleb blanks breh~

Um. Men grow facial hair differently than women.
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Posted 4/18/16



No, No I'm not. Why, should I be?
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Posted 4/18/16

JenovaHale wrote:


ayesharocks wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Implying rape in prison is anything new.


^


Again that's not the issue or the reason theres outrage, the fact they put a woman in a male prison and then she got raped by men is the issue.


Did the woman still have her dangle? If not, then they probably fucked up. If so, she was put in the right prison.

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Posted 4/18/16

Freddy96NO wrote:

Dunno what they would expect by it..
but damn I get confused when they start saying she insted of he...and forgot what gender they was... derpy me


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Posted 4/18/16

D4nc3Style wrote:


JenovaHale wrote:


ayesharocks wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Implying rape in prison is anything new.


^


Again that's not the issue or the reason theres outrage, the fact they put a woman in a male prison and then she got raped by men is the issue.


Did the woman still have her dangle? If not, then they probably fucked up. If so, she was put in the right prison.



What's wrong with putting her in a female prison, which she identifies as?
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