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Post Reply Can the U.S. be Invaded and conquered without Nukes?
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Posted 4/22/16 , edited 4/22/16

Melviniammelvin wrote:

Like what someone eariler mentioned, America can probably be taken down by regular citizens. Think about it, not including government aids like social security income and medicare who really runs America? Who gives you food? Farmers and yourself. Who gives you water? The water company and yourself. If people just decided one day to just stop working America would shut down.

That said America can take on and take over ALMOST any country, but they can't take down Chicago, or a city in California. The other day in this ghetto not far away from where I live a cop was chasing someone and the cop got jumped! Not a good thing, but gives you a idea of what I'm talking about.



A Cop is not a Military force, he's a police force, if the united states military was unleashed on a "Ghetto" gangs would be wiped from existence, along with everything else in the "Ghetto".
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Posted 4/22/16

Kyser13th wrote:
A Cop is not a Military force, he's a police force, if the united states military was unleashed on a "Ghetto" gangs would be wiped from existence, along with everything else in the "Ghetto".


pretty much this. as a real life example, in Brazil, Rio de Janeiro was pretty much run by drug cartels. the police force couldn't do a thing against them. then the world cup came, and the President mobilized the military and wiped the gangs. iirc he used military tanks and what-not.
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Posted 4/22/16

Nightblade370 wrote:
Consider the following:

ok Bill Nye(i'm sorry but I had to)
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Posted 4/22/16

Nightblade370

2) The United States Navy is massive, the most advanced in the world as of today, and the United States is surrounded by water on two sides




It's not the most advanced. They have a lot of ships but technology depends and varies between countries.

For instance, the British Astute class submarines are possibly the most advanced nuclear submarines right now, and on top of that European tech is pretty high end within the navy and even in the air force, it's good enough that the US purchases licenses to build their own revision of the equipment used.




Finally if the Mexicans can get through from the southern border, I'm pretty sure an Army would have it easier.
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Posted 4/22/16

Kyser13th wrote:


Melviniammelvin wrote:

Like what someone eariler mentioned, America can probably be taken down by regular citizens. Think about it, not including government aids like social security income and medicare who really runs America? Who gives you food? Farmers and yourself. Who gives you water? The water company and yourself. If people just decided one day to just stop working America would shut down.

That said America can take on and take over ALMOST any country, but they can't take down Chicago, or a city in California. The other day in this ghetto not far away from where I live a cop was chasing someone and the cop got jumped! Not a good thing, but gives you a idea of what I'm talking about.



A Cop is not a Military force, he's a police force, if the united states military was unleashed on a "Ghetto" gangs would be wiped from existence, along with everything else in the "Ghetto".


I didn't mean just "gangs" I meant people in general,but you're right. I can see the military shootings citizens though.
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Posted 4/22/16

narutoriki wrote:


Nightblade370

2) The United States Navy is massive, the most advanced in the world as of today, and the United States is surrounded by water on two sides




It's not the most advanced. They have a lot of ships but technology depends and varies between countries.

For instance, the British Astute class submarines are possibly the most advanced nuclear submarines right now, and on top of that European tech is pretty high end within the navy and even in the air force, it's good enough that the US purchases licenses to build their own revision of the equipment used.




Finally if the Mexicans can get through from the southern border, I'm pretty sure an Army would have it easier.


With regards to the Mexican border, the only reason why immigration is an issue is because there are several ways in which cartels and immigrants are able to enter the country discreetly (ie underground tunnels dug under safehouses) as well as a lacking in manpower to constantly patrol every section of the border as this is not wartime, especially the Rio Grande, or the river that borders Texas and Mexico. Furthermore, corruption and other such factors create holes in the southern border, but this is true of most borders around the world.

That being said, these methods only work if you're trying to smuggle a few individuals or drugs on a small enough scale without attracting attention.

During a wartime crisis, however, defense of the southern border would require an invading force to go through the Mexican Army allied with U.S. armed forces before even reaching the border, to which a third of it is, once again, bordered by the Rio Grande and would not support massive crossings with military equipment. Furthermore, none of the above mentioned issues could play into advantage here as the border would be heavily guarded by standing forces that would not allow mass crossings of troops without being intercepted at some point, especially if these forces are monitored by satellite. At most a strike team could use the underground cartel tunnel routes, but this is a one-time-use method that would put them in the middle of civilian cities surrounded by enemy forces in all directions.

Including the harsh terrain and an inability to keep up supply chains to forces on the U.S. side of the border without being noticed, enemy forces also lack the huge advantage cartels and immigrants have: stealth. The cartels and immigrants look like regular people and thus, can get away with discreet movement a lot more. Even if disguised, enemy forces wouldn't last long without being heavily armed on the U.S. side and thus would have to sacrifice equipment in hopes of successfully crossing, to which they'd simply be outgunned on the other side. Even if they somehow managed to avoid detection this entire time, their forces would not be significant enough to take a U.S. city and keep it as a foothold without retaliation, especially as an invading force and not a defense force.
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25 / M / The Void
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Posted 4/22/16
As somebody who dabbles a little in politics, that's about the most important part that goes into invading a country. (and the Ultimate choice of the "Nuclear Option") If somebody were to devise an invasion on such a major nation such as the US, they would need to be sure their allies support the decision (so this wouldn't be any NATO or UN country) and would have to think of how bad the following repercussions are. (Counterattack, our allies, and general civilian outrage) With guns being legal in the US, it's likely Civilian Militias would make the Invasion more costly than needed.

With Nukes though, things are a lot more complicated. MAD is still a thing. One country can't launch nukes out of fear another would do so in retaliation. And that would cycle until the planet is nothing but a cold husky shell.

You have to consider, first, why anyone would want to invade. We don't have a whole lot of resources anymore and our money is basically worthless. It's just not worth conquering. (and nuking us would definitely destroy what there actually is here)

North Korea is a wildcard though.
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Posted 4/22/16
Probably. Keep throwing bodies at it until people run out of munitions..
Or just bribe some politicians.
Kintor 
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Posted 4/22/16 , edited 4/22/16
It's true that the USA's large arsenal of nuclear weapons does pose a problem for a conventional military campaign at this stage. There are several ways technological advancements could mitigate this status quo. A working missile defence grid (to intercept incoming nukes) would allow an enemy to invade without fear of retaliation. While a means of successfully treating the cellular damage caused by radiation exposure, along with hardened electronics, would allow a nation to survive any 'cloudburst' nukes fired by the USA against any aggressor nation.

However, such technologies are many years away from practical implementation, if indeed such futuristic wonders are even possible at all. Even so, there's no reason to believe that the threat of nuclear annihilation will remain a plausible deterrent forever. After all, necessity is the mother of invention and nothing is more essential to political advancement then war between nation states. Sooner or later somebody is going to find a way to make the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction obsolete – then the fun will really begin.
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 4/22/16
They could get a letter demanding their debt to be paid off immediately.
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Posted 4/22/16

Kyser13th wrote:


Melviniammelvin wrote:

Like what someone eariler mentioned, America can probably be taken down by regular citizens. Think about it, not including government aids like social security income and medicare who really runs America? Who gives you food? Farmers and yourself. Who gives you water? The water company and yourself. If people just decided one day to just stop working America would shut down.

That said America can take on and take over ALMOST any country, but they can't take down Chicago, or a city in California. The other day in this ghetto not far away from where I live a cop was chasing someone and the cop got jumped! Not a good thing, but gives you a idea of what I'm talking about.



A Cop is not a Military force, he's a police force, if the united states military was unleashed on a "Ghetto" gangs would be wiped from existence, along with everything else in the "Ghetto".


I can't wait for that to happen.
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Posted 4/23/16
No.

In any invasion large enough to conquer the United States, the U.S. fires every nuclear weapon available and wipes out life on earth. Same thing with Russia, even though they're weaker and economically middling, they have enough nukes from the Cold War period and their recent, ill-advised "modernization" to create a nuclear winter.

It's possible by conventional means, if like every advanced country and then some chipped in. But it wouldn't necessarily be a certainty that the U.S. would lose. That being said, it can't happen because the U.S. hits the big red button if that scenario comes up anyway.
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24 / M / Iowa >.>
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Posted 4/23/16
I can't see it being very successful, the losses for the invader would be extremely high
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Posted 4/23/16 , edited 4/23/16

narutoriki wrote:


Nightblade370

2) The United States Navy is massive, the most advanced in the world as of today, and the United States is surrounded by water on two sides




It's not the most advanced. They have a lot of ships but technology depends and varies between countries.

For instance, the British Astute class submarines are possibly the most advanced nuclear submarines right now, and on top of that European tech is pretty high end within the navy and even in the air force, it's good enough that the US purchases licenses to build their own revision of the equipment used.




Finally if the Mexicans can get through from the southern border, I'm pretty sure an Army would have it easier.


Last I checked we don't have soldiers shooting at illegal immigrants.

Speaking of Mexico I see them as a country being less of an ally and more of fodder. It wouldn't take much to rally the cartels to support the invading armies and the Mexican government isn't exactly a shining example of military force.
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Posted 4/23/16
It's Pretty much happening to parts of Europe but America? well they aren't as weak and stupid and you're all armed to the teeth so it wouldn't be easy.
I doubt China or North Korea could do it or even Russia without Nukes.
It would be more doable with people disguised as civilians or refugess or etc and doing terrorisim.
I guess there is teh hacking side of things. If they could disable all Americas stealth and drones and satellites and etc.
But just with ground, air and naval forces, i think not.
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