Post Reply War Crimes
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Posted 5/7/16 , edited 5/7/16
Recently I came across something interesting. War crimes, total war and the lack of knowledge surrounding both.

During World War II, everyone in the war commit atrocities. Yet the victors got away with murder (literally, and rape, genocide, etc). Also, none of these atrocities are taught in History class, both High School and University. The only one briefly covered is the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

So, questions I would like to ask the people of CR, especially those of foreign nations.

Are you aware of the difference between total war and war?
Are you aware that everyone commit war crimes?
Is it fair that the victors get away with things that the Axis got executed for?

Some reading for those who don't know the Ally war crimes and total war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

Sorry for the dark rant, but I am hoping at least a few people know of some of these. The unspoken is depressing, and the crimes appalling.

Edit: I didn't go into the Axis war crimes, most are know... Well, minus the Japanese war crimes like the Rape of Nanking. Not many know about the Eastern war crimes.
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Posted 5/7/16 , edited 5/7/16
The way they teach history classes should be considered a war crime... It's so horrible.

These videos taught me more about their respective wars than I learned from my history classes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGQGEOTf4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBr3QeVPv2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tCUYMlUNA8
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Posted 5/7/16

History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill


Both sides did commit atrocities. In an ideal world both should have been punished. But as the quote says, the victor dictates the outcome to those that they conquer. Losers never win.
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Posted 5/8/16

macht_gut wrote:


History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill


Both sides did commit atrocities. In an ideal world both should have been punished. But as the quote says, the victor dictates the outcome to those that they conquer. Losers never win.


Ai. I detest that quote.

I believe history should be taught like it is in Germany. They actually admit they fucked up. The allies just hide behind victory saying "We won so its K."
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Posted 5/8/16

Rujikin wrote:

The way they teach history classes should be considered a war crime... It's so horrible.

These videos taught me more about their respective wars than I learned from my history classes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGQGEOTf4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBr3QeVPv2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tCUYMlUNA8


I know what you mean. My father made sure I knew the real facts. He also taught me to question everything until I validated the information provided to me. The problem is that our textbooks are reviewed by individuals who are not scholars or historians. And they have final say on what gets published. For example, the textbooks in Texas, http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2015/1119/Texas-We-don-t-need-academics-to-fact-check-our-textbooks-video. Textbooks are being rewritten by committee members based on their own personal agenda or ideals.
jdyun2 
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Posted 5/8/16
It's sad that many countries don't tend to teach history at school from a more objective stance.
As result details that the perpetrators are ashamed of get sweeped under the rug, or worst case they act like it never happened.
Tends to be more so when it's rape and human trafficking.
I get that certain details might be a too violent or just plain atrocious for children, but I feel like in High School it would be fine.
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Posted 5/8/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


macht_gut wrote:


History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill


Both sides did commit atrocities. In an ideal world both should have been punished. But as the quote says, the victor dictates the outcome to those that they conquer. Losers never win.


Ai. I detest that quote.

I believe history should be taught like it is in Germany. They actually admit they fucked up. The allies just hide behind victory saying "We won so its K."


Well, Germans are special and unique which we both know. It takes guts to admit guilt and to not make those mistakes again by educating the future generations. A lesson that Japan continues to ignore as well.
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Posted 5/8/16
The problem with war crimes is this....and im not speaking from experience...but if I were to see a comrade/friend/fellow soldier have something brutally done to them...I feel like I would lose some sense of my humanity as the war went on. And feel like I can return those things upon the enemy. War just seems f*cked up, and it would wreck your mindset seeing those things. Granted there are different levels of such things, especially the ones that have been documented so well (nazi camps etc).
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Posted 5/8/16

Dark_Alma wrote:
During World War II, everyone in the war commit atrocities. Yet the victors got away with murder (literally, and rape, genocide, etc). Also, none of these atrocities are taught in History class, both High School and University. The only one briefly covered is the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


Really depends on the country in question. My history class included all the terrible things committed by my country ( Canada ) during WWII. And you can damn well bet Germany covers that stuff in their history class. Our sections on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were extensive as well and focused a lot on the aftermath of using such weapons. I actually still have my old history textbooks around from high school here somewhere. I suppose I could dig them out if you really wanted comparisons.

Revisionist / Omissions of history seems to be a big problem in US education and especially Japanese education. I compared notes so to speak with an American friend of mine once and walked away really surprised at how much of WWII was glossed over in her school. Plus how much sort of gets skipped past to catch up to the point where the US enters the war.

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Posted 5/8/16 , edited 5/8/16

sandman116 wrote:
The problem with war crimes is this....and im not speaking from experience...but if I were to see a comrade/friend/fellow soldier have something brutally done to them...I feel like I would lose some sense of my humanity as the war went on. And feel like I can return those things upon the enemy. War just seems f*cked up, and it would wreck your mindset seeing those things. Granted there are different levels of such things, especially the ones that have been documented so well (nazi camps etc).


The strange thing is its actually very hard to get soldiers to abandon their humanity. Its hard to get them to even kill an enemy soldier. People don't naturally like killing other people. Thats why war propaganda use to focus so much on dehumanizing the enemy to make them easier to kill. But that's only a temporary solution as the psychology impact of warfare can attest.

Which I imagine is why most war crimes are systematic in nature rather than personal. The worst war crimes always seem to be committed on a level that defies comprehension where the command structure approves of if not encourages or straight out orders it. The cogs in the machine so to speak dehumanize the enemy and/or desensitize themselves while surrendering their moral agency over to "just following orders". Or in even worse scenarios, the ones carrying out the atrocities keep doing so because if they stop they will simply become the next victim of said atrocities. Or their family or loved ones will.

Its a super fucked up situation that usually takes some super fucked up people at the top to maintain.



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Posted 5/8/16



Well, Germans are special and unique which we both know. It takes guts to admit guilt and to not make those mistakes again by educating the future generations. A lesson that Japan continues to ignore as well.


Yea, not all of Japan has that issue, but they do deny a lot of their crimes.
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Posted 5/8/16

Dark_Alma wrote:




Well, Germans are special and unique which we both know. It takes guts to admit guilt and to not make those mistakes again by educating the future generations. A lesson that Japan continues to ignore as well.


Yea, not all of Japan has that issue, but they do deny a lot of their crimes.



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Posted 5/8/16



Really depends on the country in question. My history class included all the terrible things committed by my country ( Canada ) during WWII. And you can damn well bet Germany covers that stuff in their history class. Our sections on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were extensive as well and focused a lot on the aftermath of using such weapons. I actually still have my old history textbooks around from high school here somewhere. I suppose I could dig them out if you really wanted comparisons.

Revisionist / Omissions of history seems to be a big problem in US education and especially Japanese education. I compared notes so to speak with an American friend of mine once and walked away really surprised at how much of WWII was glossed over in her school. Plus how much sort of gets skipped past to catch up to the point where the US enters the war.



As interesting as it would be to know what your textbook told, I feel like it would be a lot of work! Only if you had free time to kill would I ask you to post it. I am generally just asking off the top of your head.

I really dislike how ignorant Americans are when it comes to WW2. For example.. All German soldiers were bad. No, it was the Waffen SS who drank the Kool-Aid. The Wehrmacht generally followed the Geneva Convention. That and Americans did no crimes during WW2. All of that is glossed over in History class.
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