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Post Reply Conservativism and Sexism
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Posted 5/9/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:



I prefer just defining where the line is for us before categorizing people and actions as one or the other. You know, say WHY you think someone is sexist, even over something minor. If you can back your insult, then it is fair game for the most part.


For example, I find it misogynistic of Magical to wish rape upon others women. Being a women does not exclude her from misogyny, to which she herself admits to. She repeatedly asserts that women were happier without any waves of feminism and much better off being housewives and were inferior in someways to men and a lot of other crap. PrinceJudar even surmises that Magical has a problem with women (They're friends though). And honestly? If a man said this he'd be pegged as sexist, misogynistic, and perhaps sexually unfulfilled. Though I don't know about Magical's sexual fulfillment, I firmly believe she is the uncle ruckus of the forum to display such crude, unrefined, and vile hatred of anyone that disagrees with her....mainly feminists.



I know it has nothing to do with the actual topic but I really had to hold myself back yesterday to not spam her thread with pictures of uncle ruckus.
Is it even legal in the USA to write that someone, or in that case every woman from a specific country, should be raped?
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Posted 5/9/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I prefer just defining where the line is for us before categorizing people and actions as one or the other. You know, say WHY you think someone is sexist, even over something minor. If you can back your insult, then it is fair game for the most part.



Definitely, the main thing we would be looking for is where that line is. The subdivisions of that data is secondary and is likely only significant to show how the topic is so divisive. It shouldn't be there to "prove" anything, but to instead provoke questions. A separate results thread could be used to dig deeper into the opinions.

As far as Magical goes... I just don't even.. I wonder how stressful it is with such a combative mindset...
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Posted 5/9/16

srlan23 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:



I prefer just defining where the line is for us before categorizing people and actions as one or the other. You know, say WHY you think someone is sexist, even over something minor. If you can back your insult, then it is fair game for the most part.


For example, I find it misogynistic of Magical to wish rape upon others women. Being a women does not exclude her from misogyny, to which she herself admits to. She repeatedly asserts that women were happier without any waves of feminism and much better off being housewives and were inferior in someways to men and a lot of other crap. PrinceJudar even surmises that Magical has a problem with women (They're friends though). And honestly? If a man said this he'd be pegged as sexist, misogynistic, and perhaps sexually unfulfilled. Though I don't know about Magical's sexual fulfillment, I firmly believe she is the uncle ruckus of the forum to display such crude, unrefined, and vile hatred of anyone that disagrees with her....mainly feminists.



I know it has nothing to do with the actual topic but I really had to hold myself back yesterday to not spam her thread with pictures of uncle ruckus.
Is it even legal in the USA to write that someone, or in that case every woman from a specific country, should be raped?


Not on the forums, but US is generally an okay place in certain venues. Public, maybe private if allowed. The US is pretty tolerant in laws if not the general populace making a stir.
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Posted 5/9/16 , edited 5/9/16

GreatLordBalzak wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Well, Magical-Soul got banned. Anyone want to discuss that? She appears to have quite a conservative view when it came to women and welfare.


She sometimes makes some good points... when she isn't throwing out extreme/hostile broad-sweeping generalizations. The problems are pretty nuanced with people drawing the line in different places. Wouldn't it be more productive to have everyone come out and define the line for themselves and maybe plot it out or something? That surely could give us a starting point to discuss these problems for real as we could all be on the same page for our definitions.

I may actually end up doing just that. If I make a graduated list of varying levels of interaction increasing in intensity and assign them sequential numbers I can ask CR members where they would draw the line of sexual harassment... Maybe it could even be significant to sub-divide the results by sex, sexual orientation, and political party. I wonder what that data would show.



"Wouldn't it be more productive to have everyone come out and define the line for themselves and maybe plot it out or something? That surely could give us a starting point to discuss these problems for real as we could all be on the same page for our definitions."

This is one of the best ideas I've seen in a very long time.
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Posted 5/9/16
1. You seem to be starting from the conclusion that conservatives are sexist, and working backward from there. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like.

2. Personally, I don't really care for strip clubs. Mainly because the employees are someone else's kid, and to treat people with such little respect doesn't seem right. That doesn't have anything to do with sexism, though.

3. Although I believe that they should be shut down, I cannot find a rationale for doing so by law inside my current ideology. So it's not something I would press too hard.
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Posted 5/9/16

foraslan wrote:

1. You seem to be starting from the conclusion that conservatives are sexist, and working backward from there. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like.

2. Personally, I don't really care for strip clubs. Mainly because the employees are someone else's kid, and to treat people with such little respect doesn't seem right. That doesn't have anything to do with sexism, though.

3. Although I believe that they should be shut down, I cannot find a rationale for doing so by law inside my current ideology. So it's not something I would press too hard.


You can treat someone with respect in a strip club. The women are there to strip for you. I don't believe sexual matters are inherently sexually demeaning to women, especially when its the entire point of said establishment.
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Posted 5/9/16

runec wrote:


JustineKo2 wrote:
Is the disappearance of these strip joints a result of this ideological trend?


I highly doubt it. If you're trying to surmise why a type of business vanished you, obviously, look at economic trends first. Unless you can find some piece of specific legislation Hawaii passed that would cause such businesses to close. Which I doubt because Hawaii has a bad rep as a hub for sex trafficking and what not.

A quick check of the laws says Hawaii still allows full nude strip clubs and, weirdly enough, yelp indicates they still have plenty of them ( uh, thanks Google, I guess? ).

You sure its ideological and not just the rise of internet pr0n? ;p
I've lived in Hawaii, well Honolulu, a long time, and if they are there I'd know where they are. Yelp and Google may list them, but unless they are updated those search engines could show establishments that closed down long ago. Again I'm just familiar with the Honolulu area so maybe just Honolulu set an ordinance and they're all in the outlying areas around the island now, or just more underground. But yeah I scoured the whole city last summer and it just has a much cleaner, more family friendly feel than it did in the 90's. No more rave scene and no more trashy sailor bars either.

So I have no idea what's really the reason for this new spic & span type of Hawaii, quite disappointing I must say :tears:

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Posted 5/9/16

foraslan wrote:

1. You seem to be starting from the conclusion that conservatives are sexist, and working backward from there. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like.

I'm starting from the conclusion that wanting to pay to see women strip is arguably a sexist activity. But I'm unsure whether conservatives favor them more than liberals because some liberals may justify strip clubs because they see it as an intrusion of individual freedoms to eliminate them and some conservatives might want them shut down because they contribute to a sinful lifestyle in their view. I've lived in a red state where even the local Hooter's was shut down because of the ultra conservative mayor (well she was also a woman).
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Posted 5/9/16

srlan23 wrote:
Is it even legal in the USA to write that someone, or in that case every woman from a specific country, should be raped?
You mean personal threats?
else it wouldn't be much.

But I agree that some of them "deserve" it, more or less.
Just look up that topic about a women going to africa then takes him into the shower where she gets.. and then she said some bs.. dunno what it was about again but it was pretty silly.

Posted 5/9/16

JustineKo2 wrote:

I'm a liberal, and quite a hard core one at that. Before you click a different topic, I want to ask something about sexism and get some of your viewpoints regardless of your social ideology. When I lived in Hawaii in the 90's there were quite a few strip joints where completely naked young women would dance and strut in front of horny guys. No pasties, no see thru underwear, nothing. Now all those strip joints are all gone. Pacific rim states like Hawaii have moved ever leftward Is the disappearance of these strip joints a result of this ideological trend?

If they enact legislation with a typical feminist agenda, which is a liberal position, to free women from the bonds of the sex industry, cracking down on all-nude strip joints seems like a logical step. But where it might conflict with a fundamentally liberal perspective, is that people have the freedom to lead their lives however they choose as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I guess it's more of a cure-the-cold-by treating-the-symptoms kind of thing, rather than getting to the root of the problem. You can take away the strip joints but it doesn't really encourage the empowerment of women as equals to men. It may help hinder the perception of women as sexual objects but there are still strip joints.

Perhaps a more thorough analysis of this question might be to examine what types of strip joints they have in Red states. Or getting an opinion of them from conservative minded folks.



"Is the disappearance of these strip joints a result of this ideological trend?"

No. Conservatives at least socially don't like these organizations. As to wonder why these clubs went away? Economics. Perhaps there wasn't a strong market, perhaps it wasn't family friendly? Hawaii does tout itself as family friendly. I'm pretty socially conservative, but I don't like strip clubs at all. I think feminism has at least intensified women becoming sex objects because practically speaking, that's the only real option men are left with, instead of being a stay at home mommy which most men want.

"If they enact legislation with a typical feminist agenda, which is a liberal position, to free women from the bonds of the sex industry, cracking down on all-nude strip joints seems like a logical step. "

Women were never bonded to that industry in the first place though.Most women were stay at home mothers or worked in hospitals, in the United States at least. A lot of them did many things, it wasn't until the Industrial revolution that this changed.

"But where it might conflict with a fundamentally liberal perspective, is that people have the freedom to lead their lives however they choose as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I guess it's more of a cure-the-cold-by treating-the-symptoms kind of thing, rather than getting to the root of the problem. "

And that's the key problem with liberalism. By giving people too much freedom, they inevitably destabilize the state socially which in the long run ruins the state. Instead of taking social responsibility and being part of the group with limited freedom, they do what's in their own interest. It eventually will ruin the state. This is why Compounding social issues are going to kill us financially and economically.

"You can take away the strip joints but it doesn't really encourage the empowerment of women as equals to men. It may help hinder the perception of women as sexual objects but there are still strip joints."

What do you mean by empowerment?

"Perhaps a more thorough analysis of this question might be to examine what types of strip joints they have in Red states. Or getting an opinion of them from conservative minded folks."

Perhaps, a better question is, did these strip clubs or pleasure centers do any good for society?



By the way, your profile pic is fabulous!
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Posted 5/9/16
Women taken off their clothes and dance around then men throw wads of money at them. You say women are being exploited? No no. Men are being exploited and women are benefiting from it. They are exploiting males primal nature to suck the money right out of their pockets. I've heard of guys being kicked out of their houses because they spent their rent money in a strip club.

How many women lose their houses because they are throwing money at male strippers? Not many.
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Posted 5/9/16
that is not how freedom of equality works. freedom of equality would be an all nude male strip club for the chicks to enjoy as well =p
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Posted 5/9/16 , edited 5/16/16

JustineKo2 wrote:

If they enact legislation with a typical feminist agenda, which is a liberal position, to free women from the bonds of the sex industry, cracking down on all-nude strip joints seems like a logical step. But where it might conflict with a fundamentally liberal perspective, is that people have the freedom to lead their lives however they choose as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.


That's a libertarian perspective. The liberal perspective is rather different.

From the liberal point of view, there are many things that nobody in their right mind would do unless someone else were coercing them into it, and those things need to be forbidden to prevent the coercion. Strippers, you see, are damaged people who became strippers because someone MADE them do it. That's bad, so the stripping has to be illegal to protect those people.

The libertarian simply forbids the coercion itself, because that is the actual problem. From their perspective, you can sell anything you want and you can buy anything you want... provided you only sell to people that want to buy, and only buy from people that want to sell. The body of law they envision as ideal forbids only fraud and violence.

For completeness, conservatives have no problem with coercion, really... so long as you're coercing someone into something that is for their own good. They want strip clubs to be illegal because strippers are BAD and we need to prevent people from becoming strippers, and seeing strippers, and hanging around with strippers.

Now, as it happens, I've been to a lot of both blue and red states. I am, however, not a huge fan of strip clubs. But what I've seen is this.

In blue states, strip clubs tend to be pushed into specific areas of town (NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard) and restricted in the kind of stripping that can be done there. The club must be this far from any school and that far from any church, and the stripper must wear certain attire and cannot display this or do that.

In red states, strip clubs tend to be restricted in the way they advertise and the amount of contact customers can have with the talent. The club cannot have a sign larger than this or place an ad larger than that, and the stripper must be this far from the customers with a barrier of at least this nature.

This is largely because in blue states, they are horrified that people choose to strip, while in red states they are horrified that people go to the clubs.


maxgale wrote:

All I know is that the Left has a sexism problem when a man is a second-class citizen simply for being a man.


Well, see, it's like running a race where you get a fifty metre head start.

All your life, you've won the race by about twenty metres. Then, one day, they decide you can't have a head start anymore. Suddenly, you are losing the race by thirty metres every time. And you start complaining, "They made me a loser!"

No they didn't. You were already a loser. They were just hiding it from you, then lying to you and calling you a winner.

You're not second-class for being a man. You're second-class for being second-class.


darkanima wrote:

an all nude male strip club for the chicks to enjoy as well =p


We have those. They aren't for chicks.
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Posted 5/9/16 , edited 5/9/16

JustineKo2 wrote:

I'm a liberal, and quite a hard core one at that. Before you click a different topic, I want to ask something about sexism and get some of your viewpoints regardless of your social ideology. When I lived in Hawaii in the 90's there were quite a few strip joints where completely naked young women would dance and strut in front of horny guys. No pasties, no see thru underwear, nothing. Now all those strip joints are all gone. Pacific rim states like Hawaii have moved ever leftward Is the disappearance of these strip joints a result of this ideological trend?


Not ideological, just progress--Physical avenues by which males are allowed to see nekkid bodies have been slowly disappearing with the rise of the Internet, and the ability to enjoy it without being seen or raided by police.
The (similarly gangster-owned) skid row porn theater that was once considered an icon of the Deep Throat 70's--and the stuff of Times Square before Giulani let the corporate flagship stores take over--was LONG since replaced by the rise of VHS in the 80's. And those, like DVD and the print magazines, soon became an outdated liability, next to a format you could click out of existence, and didn't have to worry about your significant other finding evidence of.

There are many things the Internet made obsolete, like travel agencies and bank tellers, but this would be one of the good examples.
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Posted 5/9/16

JustineKo2 wrote:
So I have no idea what's really the reason for this new spic & span type of Hawaii, quite disappointing I must say :tears:


They were updated yeah. They're still open and even have websites. I know nothing of the layout of Honolulu though so I don't know what part of town they're in but they do seem to be clustered in specific areas. There seems to be a *ton* of them though on yelp so with a good deal of dubious establishments. So I'm not sure much has changed. Moved perhaps?

Now stop making me Google weird things. >.>





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