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Post Reply Black female cadets under investigation for 'raised fist' picture at West Point
qwueri 
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Posted 5/9/16
Yet another nontroversy looming over the heads of someone foolish enough to post something that could be interpreted as offensive.

The raised fist is such a universal expression that it would be meaningless if the young ladies were any other skin color.
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Posted 5/9/16

qwueri wrote:

Yet another nontroversy looming over the heads of someone foolish enough to post something that could be interpreted as offensive.

The raised fist is such a universal expression that it would be meaningless if the young ladies were any other skin color.


A simple 10 second google search of "clenched fist meanings' says you're wrong.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/9/16

Drkhao wrote:


qwueri wrote:

Yet another nontroversy looming over the heads of someone foolish enough to post something that could be interpreted as offensive.

The raised fist is such a universal expression that it would be meaningless if the young ladies were any other skin color.


A simple 10 second google search of "clenched fist meanings' says you're wrong.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist

A quick google search shows it's used by so many political groups as to be meaningless without additional context.
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Posted 5/9/16

qwueri wrote:


Drkhao wrote:


qwueri wrote:

Yet another nontroversy looming over the heads of someone foolish enough to post something that could be interpreted as offensive.

The raised fist is such a universal expression that it would be meaningless if the young ladies were any other skin color.


A simple 10 second google search of "clenched fist meanings' says you're wrong.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist

A quick google search shows it's used by so many political groups as to be meaningless without additional context.



If the girls were any other skin color, they'd still be seen as these girls were. You can tell from the photo they took they meant it in the way to support BLM. If it was white girls, they'd claim it was white power.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/9/16

D4nc3Style wrote:



If the girls were any other skin color, they'd still be seen as these girls were. You can tell from the photo they took they meant it in the way to support BLM. If it was white girls, they'd claim it was white power.


And the accusation would be just as lacking teeth without further political context.
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Posted 5/9/16

qwueri wrote:


Drkhao wrote:


qwueri wrote:

Yet another nontroversy looming over the heads of someone foolish enough to post something that could be interpreted as offensive.

The raised fist is such a universal expression that it would be meaningless if the young ladies were any other skin color.


A simple 10 second google search of "clenched fist meanings' says you're wrong.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist

A quick google search shows it's used by so many political groups as to be meaningless without additional context.


See now you're just trying to trivialize the matter at hand. I get it, I do. Any other day I wouldn't bother disagreeing with you. However, it VERY simply stats in the policy they sign/read. No question. They may have not intended the picture to be used for BLM.. However it was, and they should be punished according to policy. Not punishing them simply shows favoritism.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/9/16

Drkhao wrote:


See now you're just trying to trivialize the matter at hand. I get it, I do. Any other day I wouldn't bother disagreeing with you. However, it VERY simply stats in the policy they sign/read. No question. They may have not intended the picture to be used for BLM.. However it was, and they should be punished according to policy. Not punishing them simply shows favoritism.


The matter is trivial. If their image is used without their permission by a political group, that's not within their control. Punishing them for that sets a bad precedent with images being so easily obtainable on the internet.
Posted 5/9/16
I think that if they put a little bit more thought into their position and what doing that gesture could be taken as, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble. You can't really blame others for associating the image with what they did. As it said in the article,

military justice and the way discipline is handled, is that intent doesn't always matter 100 percent ... Sometimes the actions themselves are enough to bring discredit.

Their lack of self-awareness is what got them into this mess. Tough luck, but they just have to face the consequences.
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 5/9/16
i find it hard to believe that they were not at least aware of the BLM movement and how their pose could be interpreted as supporting such political movement. especially when news regarding BLM is everywhere. and of course, they are also aware of the strict policy of being politically neutral while in the uniform.
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Posted 5/9/16
Yeah...I don't buy for a second that they weren't aware of what the gesture meant or its recent utilization by BLM. I mean, really, Beyoncé used it at the Super Bowl. They were totally aware of the gesture and chose to make it in uniform, contrary to the academy's rules. Time to pay the piper.
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58 / M / USA
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Posted 5/9/16
'When you put the uniform on you are to make no participation in any political or social movement whatsoever.

Not quite. You may not actively support a political movement while in uniform, but you can do so off duty and out of uniform. We do have National Guardsmen and Reservists who run for political office, remember?

Unless you're completely isolated from society, you're going to have political views. Trust me, military members can and do discuss politics among themselves.

Honestly if the photo had been mixed race there probably wouldn't have been a complaint. Instead since it was just one race someone decided to throw a hissy fit and make it into a supposed political/racial bias statement without proof of same.

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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 5/9/16
Good.


This nonsense has no place in the military.


You are there to protect the people of your nation.


ALL of them.


Not just the ones who look like you.
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Posted 5/9/16

qwueri wrote:


Drkhao wrote:


See now you're just trying to trivialize the matter at hand. I get it, I do. Any other day I wouldn't bother disagreeing with you. However, it VERY simply stats in the policy they sign/read. No question. They may have not intended the picture to be used for BLM.. However it was, and they should be punished according to policy. Not punishing them simply shows favoritism.


The matter is trivial. If their image is used without their permission by a political group, that's not within their control. Punishing them for that sets a bad precedent with images being so easily obtainable on the internet.


All of the more reason for them to NOT have done it. End of story. They should be punished as policy states. Rules are not meant to be bent because they lack awareness of how easy pictures leak on the interwebs. Problem solved.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/9/16 , edited 5/9/16

Drkhao wrote:


All of the more reason for them to NOT have done it. End of story. They should be punished as policy states. Rules are not meant to be bent because they lack awareness of how easy pictures leak on the interwebs. Problem solved.


Should the panel investigating the incident find a politically motivated basis for the picture sure. Hanging them out to dry because they may be interpreted as political sets the standard outside the military's hands.
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Posted 5/9/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

You'd probably wouldn't have made a post if it wasn't Black Live Matters though.


was it black lives matter? I thought it was feminism.

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