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Post Reply Illegal immigrants get $1,261 more welfare than American families,
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M / Mississippi, U.S.
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Posted 5/10/16 , edited 5/10/16
I didn't have time today so I read into the details of the study a bit this evening. Yes, it is flawed. One example: the author includes Social Security into the welfare amount. Social Security is not a welfare program. This is a glaring error. SS has been and will always be an insurance program.

Also, it appears that the study's author, Jason Richwine, was cut loose from the Heritage Foundation back in 2013 before beginning research with CIS. The Heritage Foundation is the biggest conservative think-tank out there so it's likely they didn't like something about his research and/or methodology.

With all that in mind, I'd say there are nuggets of truth in the study, but I seriously question the credibility of it as a whole.
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24 / M
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Posted 5/10/16 , edited 5/10/16
I'd say the title is a bit misleading but after actually reading the study, I don't really see anything that is surprising or offensive.

Some interesting things I noticed:
-This study doesn't imply that two families in the same position, only differing in immigrant status would receive different amounts of money, but instead that immigrant families are more likely to be in a position to require assistance
-Immigrant households are significantly more likely to contain a worker than native households
-Legal status of immigrants was assumed, not tested

As always, I will say that we need to do a lot of work as a country improving the ability of poor individuals to advance up the socioeconomic ladder.

PS: Fun fact: Individuals with advanced degrees are more likely to vote democrat: http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#education
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23 / M / Abyss
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Posted 5/10/16 , edited 5/10/16
Sounds just as real as the fact that Jews were ruining Germany during World War 2. Fuck those Jews, am I right?

/EndSarcasm
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36 / M / US
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Posted 5/10/16
I thought I'd seen that before, I'll let people decide on the fact checking.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp


ck1west wrote:

los Angeles got it bad we close to the border

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.


10. In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County). I may vote trump


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M / USA
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Posted 5/10/16
People in the USA illegally should not be getting a cent of government money. We are stealing from our children's future and giving it to people who are not even citizens of our country. It's insanity.
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Posted 5/10/16

sundin13 wrote:

I'd say the title is a bit misleading but after actually reading the study, I don't really see anything that is surprising or offensive.

Some interesting things I noticed:
-This study doesn't imply that two families in the same position, only differing in immigrant status would receive different amounts of money, but instead that immigrant families are more likely to be in a position to require assistance
-Immigrant households are significantly more likely to contain a worker than native households
-Legal status of immigrants was assumed, not tested

As always, I will say that we need to do a lot of work as a country improving the ability of poor individuals to advance up the socioeconomic ladder.

PS: Fun fact: Individuals with advanced degrees are more likely to vote democrat: http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#education


Funny thing is after going to college I've noticed that people with engineering, business, technology, chemistry, or other similar degrees and get a bachlors degree tend to vote republican or independent.

People who get nursing, veterinarian, liberal arts (lol), math, or a similar degree tend to vote democratic. Especially the ones with a masters or PHD.

People with associate degrees are all over the place.
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25 / F
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Posted 5/11/16
Because we're a kindly and generous nation, we extend many privileges to our guests. But does that mean that they have the right to those things? I think not - because they do not belong to them. They belong to United States citizens. As a homeowner, I always have the right to ask guests to leave. As a citizen, I apparently do not have that ability.


Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien.
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Posted 5/11/16
I don't understand how you don't get caught by ICE for applying for anything.
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42 / M
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Posted 5/11/16
There are plenty of American's milking the system too. If you think Trump will make this nation great again you are deluding yourself. The fact is that we're still great and not doing near as bad as all the naysayers would love you to believe.. There is a lot of work that needs to be done though. You are all giving the president way too much credit. Maybe you should look to Congress for the answer to that question. Most just come here seeking a better life and brighter future for themselves and their families and that's something I think we can all relate to. You want things to change then demand of your Congressmen that they act and fix our immigration system. Funny how everyone who's a Republican seems to think another Republican is the answer to all their prayers. Same with Democrats. It's a massive form of brain washing and it's as scary as it is illogical. Republicans control both the house and the senate and yet they still haven't done a freaking thing about immigration and they're not going to. Remember these are the men and women who promised over and over that if they won the House and Senate they would get a lot of work done and would work hard fixing America. Instead, we get more Benghazi BS and more delegations to keep pounding away at Hillary's email scandal. It's not about doing their job or fixing our country. It's all about winning that next election for their side. I don't even know why they want to win at this point. All they do is collect money and store power but never use that power on anything. Adding another one into the mix isn't going to fix it. Donald Trump will not and can not build a wall to keep them big ol' meanies out. He's just flat out lying to you so if he's your last big hope then I feel bad for you. The fact is that NO president no matter what his stance on illegal aliens is will be able to build a giant wall and keep em out. It' s not going to happen. Not today and certainly not tomorrow. It's not even logical to think they will be able to do that. Fear and anger aren't logical though and they know this. I just hate to see people being played by either side. We're not puppets and we shouldn't dance because we're told to.

You want to place blame then blame the men and women you voted for. They're too busy calling and begging you for money to do the job you sent them there to do.

Honestly I think at this point we should stop with all the party line bs. Stop being good little cheerleaders who cheer for your team no matter which player is on it and demand some real change. Vote everyone who is currently in office out! I don't care if you vote Republican, Democrat or Independent. It really doesn't matter. The whole Democrat vs Republican thing is just an illusion. They're both just different sides of the same coin. Just vote everyone who comes up for reelection or election out of office then and only then will they take you seriously. I guarantee after voting everyone out a time or two then politician's would get the freaking message and start doing the job we sent them there to do. But why should they work any harder than they have to? Funny how they scream about people on welfare but they do the SAME thing. They live on our tax dollars and do nothing. Sort of like welfare. There should be no such thing as a safe zone or safe areas for any politicians. Gerrymandering, corruption and unlimited outside money/influence are taking a toll. Our whole system needs to be revamped and we should go with a Popular vote so the people's voices would ALWAYS be heard. Screw delegates speaking for me. I speak just fine on my own. Seriously though just vote everyone out of office and give someone else a try. If that group doesn't do it's job then vote them out too. I guarantee after doing this once or twice that they would wake up and start busting their butts instead of being lazy bums. But it's partially our fault too for voting for them. But hey what do I know. Blaming illegals is so much funner than placing blame on ourselves and a system that we let get out of control.

Sorry for the long post people. I usually don't speak about politics online for obvious reasons and this will probably be the ONLY post I ever make on the subject. Personally I think both parties: Democrats and Republicans stink. I think it's all a game they play and there are no real winners, only losers: Us. Isn't it funny that two sides have such vast differences in their ideologies but nothing ever really changes no matter which side wins? Republican presidents haven't outlawed abortions, outlawed science, or made it so you have to have an ID to vote across the nation and Democrat president's haven't created truly equal opportunity for women, they haven't boosted minimum wage like it should have been nor have they done a number of other things that they love to preach about. No matter who wins it's back to business as usual and then we sit and wait until next time so we can vote for the single person in the whole wide world that can make our nation great again. It doesn't even sound logical and if it doesn't make sense then it's usually not true. It's not going to happen folks. It will always be business as usual until we do something real to demand change. Voting is important but how we vote is also important. Get rid of em all and watch as politicians scramble and start throwing each other under the bus. Once or twice is all it will take then you will finally start seeing more people running for office because they truly want to make a difference and not because they want to line their pockets and have some power.
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32 / F
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Posted 5/11/16 , edited 5/11/16

runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Proof?


Well, right away this is basically a re-explanation of the original study trying to correct for the flaws of that study. Written by a guy that got booted out of the Heritage Foundation for falsifying studies.

The original study did not control for household size and this rehash doesn't control for duration of welfare use nor control for income levels. Using "household" instead of individuals is being intentionally shit smudging. The data set being drawn upon here does provide usage information by individual. There's no need to quantify it under a nebulously defined "household".

Everything in this study is also just an estimate based on his methodology, not hard data. The monetary value is an estimate. The % of illegal immigrants is an estimate. The study also does not include Social Security or Medicare. Which, if you include immigrant contributions to SS and Medicare, outweighs their usage of welfare programs and shows them as a net positive for the US economy ( Per OECD analysis. ). With little difference in net positive contribution from native households ( native households contribute a net positive only 3.1% higher than immigrant households ).

And thus is the trick. Immigrants do use more of specific social programs. Specifically, they do use more UI, social assistance and family benefits. But, Americans use more SS, Medicare and housing subsidies. So if you quantify by your own terms ( "households" ) instead of individuals and exclude SS and Medicare then yes, you can come up with the result you want.

Which is rawr, immigrant bad stealing our money.



THANK YOU

Reminds me of that old story.

A billionaire, a black woman and a middle-class guy are sitting at a table with a plate with a dozen cookies. The billionaire takes 11 cookies, than tells the guy "look out, that welfare queen is trying to steal your cookie!"
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27 / M
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Posted 5/11/16
If the American government had more policies that help the manufacturing sector that probably wouldn't be that big an issue.
runec 
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Posted 5/11/16

Rujikin wrote:
Funny thing is after going to college I've noticed that people with engineering, business, technology, chemistry, or other similar degrees and get a bachlors degree tend to vote republican or independent.

People who get nursing, veterinarian, liberal arts (lol), math, or a similar degree tend to vote democratic. Especially the ones with a masters or PHD.


Ah yes, a personal anecdote. The most reliable form of data. -.-

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Hoosierville
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Posted 5/11/16

runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Funny thing is after going to college I've noticed that people with engineering, business, technology, chemistry, or other similar degrees and get a bachlors degree tend to vote republican or independent.

People who get nursing, veterinarian, liberal arts (lol), math, or a similar degree tend to vote democratic. Especially the ones with a masters or PHD.


Ah yes, a personal anecdote. The most reliable form of data. -.-



Because no data is obviously better than some personal observations. I'm not even trying to prove a point here why do you even care?
runec 
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Posted 5/11/16

Rujikin wrote:
Because no data is obviously better than some personal observations. I'm not even trying to prove a point here why do you even care?


Depending on the observations and any bias therein then yes, actually it is. Also, you were responding to a Pew research study. ;p
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Hoosierville
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Posted 5/11/16 , edited 5/11/16

runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Because no data is obviously better than some personal observations. I'm not even trying to prove a point here why do you even care?


Depending on the observations and any bias therein then yes, actually it is. Also, you were responding to a Pew research study. ;p


Nope I was reporting to some cat on a forum so there is little need for a research study.
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