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Post Reply New Catalog Titles: Azazel, Sketchbook, Lost Universe, Ah My Buddha!!, Kyatto Ninden Teyandee, Ringing Bell, Library Wa
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Posted 5/12/16 , edited 5/13/16

IngramIV wrote:

US and Canada , US and Canada. US and Canada. How much does it cost to bid for the outside world?
Quite a bit, especially if the audience might not even be there. If you've at all noticed, CR tends to get most of their catalog titles these days through NA licensors (who usually have only US and Canada rights) as it's not very expensive. It's much harder for CR to get these shows by themselves, which is why you don't really see them get streaming rights to much older shows that they'd have to get themselves.

Something to consider is how old is unpopular, unfortunately. I recently ran through the 500 most popular anime on MAL. Guess what the most represented years by far were? 2010-2015, with around 50 shows each. 2003 couldn't even get to 10 shows.
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730846119622639616
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730846441413828608
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730847541365899264
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730848108993601536

People want the newest of the new, and that's what is viable for CR to get near-worldwide rights to (that's how it is for most shows they get every season now, they get way more regions now than they did back in say 2012). Heck, older anime tend to not do that well on DVD/BD here in North America, and only a very select few companies bother with them because of that (Discotek, Rightstuf, Sentai/Maiden Japan).

Making new dubs of old shows is a losing proposition for a couple of reasons. The first, and most obvious one, is that old shows don't sell very many copies. Licensing and producing DVDs of these oldies might cost a publisher only a few thousand dollars, start-to-finish, whereas dubbing a show would cost, at minimum, $7,000 per episode. When older shows are lucky to move 1,000 units on DVD, that's simply a dumb investment.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2014-05-23/.74748

Newer shows by comparison do much, much better.
http://www.fandompost.com/oldforums/showthread.php?13305-FUNimation-12-Panels&p=121979&viewfull=1#post121979

tl;dr, it's easy to sublicense older shows via NA publishers but much harder for old shows not licensed by NA publishers due to cost and the potential audience that'd watch.
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Posted 5/12/16 , edited 5/17/16

TheAncientOne wrote:

I'm don't know I would classify it as a "great effort", since it allowed them to use the UK site as a beta test for the same software they'll soon deploy for their site here.

You seemed to have missed my point about the forum segregation. Do you believe everyone only uses the forums for reading news? How popular do you think the forums here on CR would be if they were balkanized per licensing block?

The approach Funimation used would be unworkable for CR. Funimation has two licensing blocks to deal with. CR has possibly more than one can count on your fingers and toes.



Most other streaming businesses on the planet have found ways around this. There are no excuses for Crunchyroll.

If Crunchyroll wants to be treated like a major player. it should act like one, and part of that is not mass-promoting titles in regions where they aren't available.

I appreciate there are difficulties with licensing international content, but that's not my concern. I pay more than the Americans do for a greatly reduced service, it's still value for money but it doesn't preclude me from being upset about it...
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Posted 5/12/16 , edited 6/2/16
Thanks to BigOnAnime and TheAncientOne for spreading some sanity here, though I would support some kind of announcement filtering

I'm in the UK, but its not hard to see that the older catalog titles are mostly obtained (on the cheap?) from local to CR (i.e. US) distributors. Over my last ~4 years of using CR, the legal streaming prospects for anime have massively improved in the UK, mostly due to CR. It has gone from maybe 5 titles a season on here to well over 50% of a seasons shows (even more this season with ~38 shows for UK at the time of this post in the Spring 2016 Lineup), and with FunimationNowUK getting the others the UK streaming landscape is pretty much at the best it could be, and the best seen yet. Considering more anime comes out per season than ever before we are quite frankly spoilt.

Especially these last few seasons, CR have been very good at getting worldwide bar Asia rights for the majority of their titles, which they continue to try and obtain as they expand into new areas (such as parts of the middle east iirc).

Of course, I still sympathise with those outside the US. We've lived with these kind of announcements for a long time, and they can be frustrating, particularly when they are shows you may care about (Diebuster ). And the UK is arguably lucky to have got to the state it is compared to other regions in Europe, being an English speaking region has certainly helped wrt licensing. But do exclusive to US old catalog titles like this really upset you this much ? Especially compared with the many worldwide rights shows they have obtained for the last few seasons ?

However with all that said, it would be nice if they had a way of signing up to see announcements applicable for your region, an email list for example would be good. And as the site tries to become not just the US's biggest anime streaming site, but also to spread out as an worldwide digital media site, they ought to perhaps consider ways of making the frontpage of the site more customized to each region to avoid these issues discussed in this thread.
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Posted 5/12/16

BigOnAnime wrote:


IngramIV wrote:

US and Canada , US and Canada. US and Canada. How much does it cost to bid for the outside world?
Quite a bit, especially if the audience might not even be there. If you've at all noticed, CR tends to get most of their catalog titles these days through NA licensors (who usually have only US and Canada rights) as it's not very expensive. It's much harder for CR to get these shows by themselves, which is why you don't really see them get streaming rights to much older shows that they'd have to get themselves.

Something to consider is how old is unpopular, unfortunately. I recently ran through the 500 most popular anime on MAL. Guess what the most represented years by far were? 2010-2015, with around 50 shows each. 2003 couldn't even get to 10 shows.
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730846119622639616
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730846441413828608
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730847541365899264
https://twitter.com/BigOnAnime/status/730848108993601536

People want the newest of the new, and that's what is viable for CR to get near-worldwide rights to (that's how it is for most shows they get every season now, they get way more regions now than they did back in say 2012). Heck, older anime tend to not do that well on DVD/BD here in North America, and only a very select few companies bother with them because of that (Discotek, Rightstuf, Sentai/Maiden Japan).

Making new dubs of old shows is a losing proposition for a couple of reasons. The first, and most obvious one, is that old shows don't sell very many copies. Licensing and producing DVDs of these oldies might cost a publisher only a few thousand dollars, start-to-finish, whereas dubbing a show would cost, at minimum, $7,000 per episode. When older shows are lucky to move 1,000 units on DVD, that's simply a dumb investment.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2014-05-23/.74748

Newer shows by comparison do much, much better.
http://www.fandompost.com/oldforums/showthread.php?13305-FUNimation-12-Panels&p=121979&viewfull=1#post121979

tl;dr, it's easy to sublicense older shows via NA publishers but much harder for old shows not licensed by NA publishers due to cost and the potential audience that'd watch.


Hummm you got a really good point, so basically if the series they add is over, there is no point of bidding it for outside NA.
That explain Durarara! that was NA and went worldwide available later on just because it was not over yet!, the formula is then is

If Anime = Active Then
License it in and outside NA ...
Else If Anime = Over Then
License it on NA only ...
Else
Blame Funimation and Kadokawa ...
End If
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Posted 5/12/16
Ah my buddha?! omg this old anime during my......adolescent stage oh no is back!
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Posted 5/13/16
LOL amaenaideyo! been about 10 + years!!! lol
the 2nd season OP just come back to my head!!!!
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/24/16

Cornishcreamtea wrote:

Oh I really enjoyed Azazel-San, why is it only available in NA?



azazel why are you so cute yay!

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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/17/16
It's not an entirely unreasonable request to put 'US/Canada' in the title of a thread specific to those countries and is a simple change to make. It's good practice to list location in the title of region-specific announcements and a reasonable concession to make to an international customer base.
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/27/16

Flufball wrote: It's not an entirely unreasonable request to put 'US/Canada' in the title of a thread specific to those countries and is a simple change to make. It's good practice to list location in the title of region-specific announcements and a reasonable concession to make to an international customer base.

It could be even more unobtrusive than that ...

"New NA Catalog Titles: You're Being Summoned, Azazel, Sketchbook ~full color's~, Lost Universe, Ah My Buddha!!"

That is certainly an entirely reasonable request to make ... since it is something that Crunchyroll has control over.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Note that making various declarations about what catalog titles Crunchyroll "should license" and what terms they should demand betrays a basic misunderstanding ... (longish discussion follows) ...



Buzz201 wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote: I'm don't know I would classify it as a "great effort", since it allowed them to use the UK site as a beta test for the same software they'll soon deploy for their site here.

You seemed to have missed my point about the forum segregation. Do you believe everyone only uses the forums for reading news? How popular do you think the forums here on CR would be if they were balkanized per licensing block?

The approach Funimation used would be unworkable for CR. Funimation has two licensing blocks to deal with. CR has possibly more than one can count on your fingers and toes.


Most other streaming businesses on the planet have found ways around this. There are no excuses for Crunchyroll.

Yes: they have not solved this problem, they have found ways around the problem, by setting up separate sites for distinct license regions and those people in smaller countries and markets that can not sustain a separate site are just left outside looking in.


If Crunchyroll wants to be treated like a major player. it should act like one, and part of that is not mass-promoting titles in regions where they aren't available.

But acting in the way that you recommend, following the way that most other streaming businesses have ducked the problem, would mean segregating each other group of users in their own separate website ghettoes, and for those which are individually too small to generate the revenue to pay for people to run a site for them, just leaving them on the outside looking in.


I appreciate there are difficulties with licensing international content, but that's not my concern. I pay more than the Americans do for a greatly reduced service, it's still value for money but it doesn't preclude me from being upset about it...

But you get more content for a lower price than if Crunchyroll did it the way that you recommend, which is to follow the example of most streaming companies.

So while I agree with a number here that Crunchyroll could flag NA-only announcements better than they presently do, I don't agree with the claim that handling it the way that most streaming businesses handle it would be an improvement. It would solve this annoyance, but the loss would be far greater than the gain.
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Posted 5/13/16
Yea more anime!
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/13/16

agila61 wrote:

Yes: they have not solved this problem, they have found ways around the problem, by setting up separate sites for distinct license regions and those people in smaller countries and markets that can not sustain a separate site are just left outside looking in.

But acting in the way that you recommend, following the way that most other streaming businesses have ducked the problem, would mean segregating each other group of users in their own separate website ghettoes, and for those which are individually too small to generate the revenue to pay for people to run a site for them, just leaving them on the outside looking in.

But you get more content for a lower price than if Crunchyroll did it the way that you recommend, which is to follow the example of most streaming companies.

So while I agree with a number here that Crunchyroll could flag NA-only announcements better than they presently do, I don't agree with the claim that handling it the way that most streaming businesses handle it would be an improvement. It would solve this annoyance, but the loss would be far greater than the gain.



I wasn't necessarily recommending they split the entire site, but they should really split the homepage and banner ads as a minimum. Mailing lists should be split as well. Social media is obviously harder, but you can restrict the countries posts get displayed in on Facebook, for some reason Crunchyroll doesn't do that. Twitter is harder, but CR could perhaps add a brief (NA) or (Eng.) for English-speaking territories only, to try and avoid upsetting people.



Nobody is expecting perfection, even Funimation have accidentally sent emails about their US theatrical releases to their UK mailing list. The problem is that Crunchyroll aren't even trying. I think that's what pisses people off most.
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Posted 5/13/16
Ah, I never picked up on the title of Amaenaide yo. I watched that while it was still current. It was fun, not the high end of quality, but still worthwhile. Although I failed to finish it (most likely the second season). It's one of like three shows that I've had eternally "On-hold" on MAL since I never considered it to be dropped. Glad I can clean up this part of my list now.
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/13/16

Buzz201 wrote: I wasn't necessarily recommending they split the entire site, but they should really split the homepage and banner ads as a minimum. Mailing lists should be split as well.

Split into WHAT? Look at how many different markets are now being served by Crunchyroll's English language streaming.

The fact that there is one main English language site that attracts people from around the world has been a large part of Crunchyroll's ability to gain a growing share of their licenses for such a broad number of countries. I have been tracking Crunchyroll's new simulcast licensing regions since 2009, and places like Sub-Saharan Africa other than South Africa have gone from seasons with four full length anime and three shorts to getting more than half of the series picked up, due to "World ex-Asia" licenses.

They have distinct sites for distinct languages, which more or less works because even though the forums and comments gets fewer comments, they are in the site language to make up for it.

But if they have 25 different English language sites, some large share of people "suppose to" go to other country's will come to the North American one because it has the most activity. And then that will reduce the activity at the other sites, and drive still more people to where the action is, so many of the "25" (or however many) other English language sites will be digital ghost towns.


Social media is obviously harder, but you can restrict the countries posts get displayed in on Facebook, for some reason Crunchyroll doesn't do that. Twitter is harder, but CR could perhaps add a brief (NA) or (Eng.) for English-speaking territories only, to try and avoid upsetting people.

The only workable system for twitter would be to have distinct twitter feeds that only get posts that are relevant to that region.


Nobody is expecting perfection, even Funimation have accidentally sent emails about their US theatrical releases to their UK mailing list. The problem is that Crunchyroll aren't even trying. I think that's what pisses people off most.

As I said above, better easy identification of which posts on the main English language site are NA-only is something Crunchyroll can and should do.

And it would be misleading to claim that Crunchyroll has done nothing. They used to put the region access list underneath the splash image, and we got them to put it in the first paragraph of the series announcement. And of course there are the Latin American, Iberian Peninsula, French and German sites, with their own newsfeeds about the series picked up for their regions. So it's not as if Crunchyroll has done "nothing", it's rather that they should not sit on what they have done before, but should work on continuing to improve.

I was responding to the suggestion that Crunchyroll should address the problem in the way that "most streaming services" do. That is one thing that Crunchyroll definitely should not do. It would screw over far too many anime fans in far too many small markets.
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Posted 5/14/16

agila61 wrote:


But if they have 25 different English language sites, some large share of people "suppose to" go to other country's will come to the North American one because it has the most activity. And then that will reduce the activity at the other sites, and drive still more people to where the action is, so many of the "25" (or however many) other English language sites will be digital ghost towns.


What do you not understand about not emailing your entire mailing list for a title only available in US/CA/LAM/AU/NZ? The fact you think that is acceptable conduct, just shows how out of touch you are. And they already split the homepage up, so parts don't display titles not available in your region, I'm just asking that they also do that for the banners and scrolling images at the top.

Let me just say this: those couple of emails Crunchyroll sent about One Piece, to their entire mailing list, very likely breached UK advertising regulations. And if they didn't, the appearance of One Piece on the homepage and in banner ads (without any warning that it was region locked), certainly did.


And, to be perfectly blunt, I think the primary reason people pretend to be from North America on Crunchyroll, is because they don't give a crap about their other customers...
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Posted 5/14/16
"Sorry, due to licensing limitations, videos are unavailable in your region"

Not available in the UK you say? Goodness, what a shocker. I think I need a lie down.
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