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Post Reply "Transgendered" Restrooms and showers
Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/20/16

sundin13 wrote:

Why not just have unisex restrooms?


^
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/20/16
There are roughly as many (if not more) transgender individuals in the world as natural redheads. You have been in the bathroom with us plenty of times and you were fine (and you probably didnt even notice). Transgender bathroom protections have been in place for like 10 years and we haven't done anything wrong. Creeping on people in bathrooms is already illegal.
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Posted 5/13/16

sundin13 wrote:

Why not just have unisex restrooms?


Isn't that what they're doing?
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20 / M / Canada
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Posted 5/13/16

Yume_Mirai wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Why not just have unisex restrooms?


^


Might as well at this point. Its already pretty illegal to do shady shit in bathrooms. I don't think that will change no matter who gets to go into them. I think that's all that needs to be said about this issue.
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26 / M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 5/13/16
I see. Thats whats happening now.
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27 / M
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Posted 5/13/16
So what's the word on locker rooms? Are those to be unisex too?
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Posted 5/13/16
Here are the facts, if you don't have the facts, it's hard to start an honest discussion.
1. This is being put forward under Title 9, the governments favorite way to force schools to comply or lose millions in funding with no legal recourse.
2. The rule today allows anyone to declare gender preference without question, with or without any physical modifications.
3. Transgender facilities are not acceptable, they must be treated as any other member of that gender.
4. This rule applies to all school activities and facilities including restrooms, locker rooms and showers.
5. Title 9 was originally use as a way to get schools to support female athletics, which means that transgender people will be allowed to participate in any sport of their gender. So, if Jenner or any other Transgender person was in school, they would be on the woman's swim team even without the sex change.
6. If you do not follow these rules you will be aggressively pursued by the US Justice Department.
These are the facts, dispute them if you like, but show me where I can find any statement by the US AG or the Civil Rights department to the contrary.
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 6/4/16
Lest one should think I have only liberals to appeal to on the matter, here's what some high profile Republicans have to say on the subject:


"[HB 1008] does not address any pressing issue concerning the school districts of South Dakota."

~Dennis Daugaard (R), Governor of South Dakota, vetoing HB1008



"There have been very few complaints the way it is. People go. They use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate...There has been so little trouble...You know, there's a big move to create new bathrooms. Problem with that is for transgender, that would be—first of all, I think that would be discriminatory in a certain way. That would be unbelievably expensive for businesses in the country. Leave it the way it is."

~Donald Trump (R), Presidential Nominee for the Republican Party 2016, as of 4/21/16



"I think this should be a states' issue. It's become a huge story and yet it affects — and everybody has to be protected, if it's one person — but it's a tiny, tiny portion of the population, and it's become a massive story."

~Donald Trump (R), Presidential Nominee for the Republican Party 2016, as of 5/13/16 (emphasis mine)


Meanwhile, multiple states' school district officials have reported no incidents related to transgender facility access or a general uptick in sexual assault incidents upon granting such access despite ample time for such a pattern to emerge:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/06/03/17-school-districts-debunk-right-wing-lies-abou/203867

Adding to the problem for opponents is that Laura Palumbo (an expert on sexual violence prevention at the National Sexual Violence Resource Centre) has also spoken out against the "bathroom predator" myth, explaining that it's not generally going to be the strangers in your restrooms and changing rooms you need to be afraid of given the data we have on the subject. It's your friends, neighbours, and family members, and besides which transgender people represent an extremely vulnerable demographic whose concerns are neglected and masked by bathroom predator fears' misdirection:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/21/national-expert-anti-lgbt-bathroom-predator-fears-are-very-misinformed/210001

Still, the possibility of violence in bathrooms exists and rules need to be in place to protect people. Heard about a guy going into a locker room in Washington? Well, the Washington human rights commission explained in no uncertain terms that businesses may still exclude suspicious individuals from restrooms, and further stressed that individuals entering restrooms on false pretenses are not protected by facility access rules to begin with:


If a business has a reasonable belief that a person is in the wrong place, there is no rule that states that the person cannot be questioned and required to leave. If that person has entered a gender-segregated facility under false pretenses, and is asked to leave, then it is quite unlikely that the person will pursue a civil rights complaint. If they do, the subsequent investigation will uncover that the person is not protected under the law, and the complaint will be closed with no further action.


Of course, it should go without saying that the acts of committing sexual harassment, assault, voyeurism, and so on will still be illegal even if such rules are put into place, but hey, sometimes obvious things bear repeating.

There's also a distinct possibility that the fellow in Washington was actually a conservative activist trying to sow fear. Even if he wasn't, however, we have hard evidence of conservative activist groups doing just that regardless. In fact, keep an eye on Target stores. If you see a report about a cisgendered man in a Target restroom who clearly doesn't belong there don't worry; he might just be a conservative activist working on behalf of the American Family Association to "test the limits" of a policy they've already decided is a threat either way:


The net effect will be that people will not be stopped. We’ve already had people testing this, going into Targets and men trying to go into bathrooms. There is absolutely no barrier.

~Sandy Rios, American Family Association Director of Government Affairs


As a bonus, fears about men going into bathrooms to harass people is having an impact on the very women moral guardians are trying to protect. Don't think cisgendered women are being misidentified and confronted? Here's some video of such an incident in progress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMA0mTPul-g

Thinking "Why was the camera on?" Well, just listen to the conversation. He's clearly already followed her into the restroom by the time the footage starts, we gather from her question that he has commented that she "looked like a man" as an explanation for why he did that, and he's fumbling in his mind for what could possibly be wrong about what he'd just done.

With all of that in mind, transgender access to facilities is beside the point concerning perverts' ability to film, assault, or harass people anyway. In addition to bathroom signs not serving as magical barriers to prevent people from entering there is also to consider that perverts can strike anywhere and will strike whether or not transgender people are granted facility access to begin with. I mean, Jeffery Polizzi confronted a woman in a Florida Target bikini section and started talking to her about her genitals and the clothing she was buying while filming her prior to being chased off by his victim. What's more, Polizzi had already harassed the same woman 2 years prior in a grocery store. That wasn't in the bathroom, either. Now, Polizzi did have a court record of taking photos in dressing rooms, but that was from 2009 and these incidents were in Florida, so he wasn't exploiting transgender facility access then, either. It makes no fucking difference whether you let transgender people access these facilities. The perverts are going to stroll in if they want to, and their actions will still be illegal either way.

Finally, there is to consider that even if opponents were to get their way and force transgender people into restrooms comporting with their birth certificates (which in some jurisdictions cannot be changed even despite initiation of hormone replacement therapy) this may lead to uncomfortable situations for cisgendered men and women in bathrooms anyway. Have you ever seen Michael Hughes? You should see Michael Hughes:



Opponents want him in women's restrooms. Yeah. It's that crazy an idea to oppose this, and as I've shown above, also pointless. So spare me, Doug. Spare me.
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16 / F / Always my room
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 6/4/16
I personally believe that if someone wants to use the bathroom for the gender they identify as, let them go for it. Does't bother me.
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/29/16
Whatever gets us closer to that shower scene in Star Ship Troopers I'm fine with.
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27 / M
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Posted 5/13/16

mkohli wrote:

Here are the facts, if you don't have the facts, it's hard to start an honest discussion.
1. This is being put forward under Title 9, the governments favorite way to force schools to comply or lose millions in funding with no legal recourse.
2. The rule today allows anyone to declare gender preference without question, with or without any physical modifications.
3. Transgender facilities are not acceptable, they must be treated as any other member of that gender.
4. This rule applies to all school activities and facilities including restrooms, locker rooms and showers.
5. Title 9 was originally use as a way to get schools to support female athletics, which means that transgender people will be allowed to participate in any sport of their gender. So, if Jenner or any other Transgender person was in school, they would be on the woman's swim team even without the sex change.
6. If you do not follow these rules you will be aggressively pursued by the US Justice Department.
These are the facts, dispute them if you like, but show me where I can find any statement by the US AG or the Civil Rights department to the contrary.


Well that's not right... Didn't a man want to fight Ronda Rousey on these grounds?
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 5/13/16 , edited 5/20/16
This is relevant
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Posted 5/14/16
As commented on in an article by Breitbart.com pertaining to the presidents edict letter released friday May 13 to all school districts.

"The letter will also inform school districts they won’t even be allowed to require some evidence that the child is “transgender” or is undergoing treatment or a sex-change procedures. That “no-test” rule reflects progressives’ hostility to any tests or rules that limit people’s choice of fluid “gender identity.”

So any boy who claims he is transgendered must be allowed to use either a NON gender bathroom or possibly a girls locker room.
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Posted 5/14/16 , edited 5/14/16
Until someone you know is raped or worse by some pervert who is taking advantage of the law.

Because every existing school has been built around keeping boys and girls bathrooms and locker rooms separate.
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