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Post Reply Rome, Sweet Rome': Could a Single Marine Unit Destroy the Roman Empire?
Posted 5/19/16
No, as others have said, the Roman legions would crush them eventually.
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Posted 5/19/16
Hm Kinda of hard to hide the tank while heading to strike the homeland of Rome.. Even if Tank only have 3 or 5 Fire left, Romans doesn't know that.. Since they're up against something they have never seen before. Also at that time Romans thought they had everything superior compared to other countries and now they're seeing this, now that will shatter some of their belief, The Marine can use trickery by making Romans think that Tanks have lot of rounds left.. They can make it appeared that they ran out, lets say they used up two out of 5, Once Romans think there something wrong with the Tank they'll start moving in.. That when Marine use another shot..

I would assumed Marine will use the tank to bring down the Rome wall.. While other Marines moving in at different location while lot of romans blocking the brought down wall.. that part of the decoy making Romans think Marine trying to make it though. Also they can ride the tank though that brought down wall, while Romans using everything they have to bring down the tank.. I'm sure they'll try to think one up..

Lets say other Marine team make it in, and they killed all of the Royal Guards and manage to get Senators and Emperor.. What would they do from there? Kill all of the Senators and Emperor and knowing that they're stuck in that era.. so they'll go down with them? They'll be thinking at least people are free of Rome's reins?
Posted 5/19/16
interesting reading thanks
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Posted 5/19/16

JanusCascade wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


mxxlogk wrote:


I do actually I have several friends and colleagues who have been in the marines along with other branches of the military. I think your not being realistic in terms of modern to ancient. Doesn't matter how "battle hardened" the soldiers are when there equipment is swords, spears, shields and archers, They have to be point blank range to stab or slash any modern combat force or shoot arrows witch are easily defend able in modern military vehicles. Roman shields would not stop even small arms rifle rounds. Not to mention the roman army's peak was less than 500,000 in total forces across the European continent, not millions and not in one place for battle. As far fuel in the vehicles as someone previously stated in combat they wouldn't need to constantly cruise around but stage a perimeter on high ground, move if they were surrounded densely enough. I mean there is nothing for roman soldiers to prevent even just being run over by a tank. An example a M1 Abrams tank witch is far outdated it was designed in 1979 has a 500 gal fuel tank with a 265 mile range in conservation, considering the size of the standing army's they'd face at one time they could make plenty of use of 1 tank to remove a large portion of there entire trained and experienced legion. Also a large portion of roman military was enslaved armies, once the marines destroyed the primary legions, the observation of ancient people would see it as incredibly fast paced and relatively effortless there subjugated armies numbers would fallout completely.


Mate go back to history class you obviously failed it if you think Rome at any time in it's existence ever employed slave soldiers. Rome is actually famous for the exact opposite. It was one of the few ancient powers to ever employ professional standing armies, soldiers whose only business was warfare and who were well rewarded for their services. And who operated under an operational discipline that'd make a Marine seem like a pussy.

The marine unit may win its first few battles but when the bullets run dry and the fuel is gone they are toast. They are nothing but poorly trained cqc experts in cloth uniforms armed with only combat knives and entrenching shovels Against soldiers trained in unit warfare armed with shields, armour, and swords, spears both melee and throwing.

You have never served so I'll forgive you lack of knowledge of exactly how fast an unit can chew through it's ammo and fuel in a pitched battle But stop pretending the result is anything but a single marine unit in a foreign land cut off and surround by a hostile force has anything but an early grave waiting for them.



I agree with you, because back in the old day their body was build differently, plus nowdays we're consider lazy.. Noticed how Solders in modern time go crazy or get mental illness during the war? Plus Roman back in old day were willing to die for their Emperor, Of course if one run away from the battle.. He'll get killed by the General and they'll probably kill his entire family! So its unlikely that they'll run away like modern Solders do nowdays since they'll only one to be punished not their families.


Nope I got my facts straight you should do some more reading on the roman empire you obviously came into this discussion biased with a romanticized (no pun intended) concept of the Roman armies and a chip on your shoulder against marines. Only noticeable "body was build differently" example would be that the average stature of a adult male would be significantly shorter, even in great physical fitnes condition a bullet going to kill you all the same. The idea was could marines win a battle with the roman empire military forces in the time era not how would they go about life stuck in that time afterwards or how to continue a war campaign after.

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Posted 5/19/16

mxxlogk wrote:


JanusCascade wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


mxxlogk wrote:


I do actually I have several friends and colleagues who have been in the marines along with other branches of the military. I think your not being realistic in terms of modern to ancient. Doesn't matter how "battle hardened" the soldiers are when there equipment is swords, spears, shields and archers, They have to be point blank range to stab or slash any modern combat force or shoot arrows witch are easily defend able in modern military vehicles. Roman shields would not stop even small arms rifle rounds. Not to mention the roman army's peak was less than 500,000 in total forces across the European continent, not millions and not in one place for battle. As far fuel in the vehicles as someone previously stated in combat they wouldn't need to constantly cruise around but stage a perimeter on high ground, move if they were surrounded densely enough. I mean there is nothing for roman soldiers to prevent even just being run over by a tank. An example a M1 Abrams tank witch is far outdated it was designed in 1979 has a 500 gal fuel tank with a 265 mile range in conservation, considering the size of the standing army's they'd face at one time they could make plenty of use of 1 tank to remove a large portion of there entire trained and experienced legion. Also a large portion of roman military was enslaved armies, once the marines destroyed the primary legions, the observation of ancient people would see it as incredibly fast paced and relatively effortless there subjugated armies numbers would fallout completely.


Mate go back to history class you obviously failed it if you think Rome at any time in it's existence ever employed slave soldiers. Rome is actually famous for the exact opposite. It was one of the few ancient powers to ever employ professional standing armies, soldiers whose only business was warfare and who were well rewarded for their services. And who operated under an operational discipline that'd make a Marine seem like a pussy.

The marine unit may win its first few battles but when the bullets run dry and the fuel is gone they are toast. They are nothing but poorly trained cqc experts in cloth uniforms armed with only combat knives and entrenching shovels Against soldiers trained in unit warfare armed with shields, armour, and swords, spears both melee and throwing.

You have never served so I'll forgive you lack of knowledge of exactly how fast an unit can chew through it's ammo and fuel in a pitched battle But stop pretending the result is anything but a single marine unit in a foreign land cut off and surround by a hostile force has anything but an early grave waiting for them.



I agree with you, because back in the old day their body was build differently, plus nowdays we're consider lazy.. Noticed how Solders in modern time go crazy or get mental illness during the war? Plus Roman back in old day were willing to die for their Emperor, Of course if one run away from the battle.. He'll get killed by the General and they'll probably kill his entire family! So its unlikely that they'll run away like modern Solders do nowdays since they'll only one to be punished not their families.


Nope I got my facts straight you should do some more reading on the roman empire you obviously came into this discussion biased with a romanticized (no pun intended) concept of the Roman armies and a chip on your shoulder against marines. Only noticeable "body was build differently" example would be that the average stature of a adult male would be significantly shorter, even in great physical fitnes condition a bullet going to kill you all the same. The idea was could marines win a battle with the roman empire military forces in the time era not how would they go about life stuck in that time afterwards or how to continue a war campaign after.




According to Historian People back in old days are build differently meaning that they able to do lot of body work, train all day.. They don't have television or computer where they sit down for hours.. They had to work long hours in order to support their family and pay taxes. Nowdays in modern days lot of people couldn't handle that kind of work due to not used to that kind of work, We're living like King and Queen (laziness)

Of course Bullets will kill Roman, not even Armor will protect them, I read the post I posted from the guy who wrote it and planning on making movie out of them. I was talking about capable of doing body work in longer duration than current time era people can.

You need to go back and reread on the previous posts I made, I think that post was meant for someone else not me. -scatches head-

Also I read on about Roman Empire and watch lot of show about Roman. You shouldn't be running around saying you got your facts straight since that pride of your will back fire. :/

I merely thinking out what they could have done the Marines, I'm not stating that it'll happen, just one of the idea of battle plan, I'm sure millions of user typed it out on that website when it was first posted.
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Posted 5/19/16

ck1west wrote:

interesting reading thanks




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Posted 5/19/16
Surely they wouldn't need that much ammo to take over Rome. After that, they just command the legions themselves.

The marines would have to be pretty paranoid, however. It would make the most sense to deceive them somehow and use thieves to get their supplies or murder them.
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Posted 5/19/16
Rifles and cannons would be an awesome advantage against gladii and pilum, but only for so long.
Run the Marines out of ammunition, and without appropriating period arms and armor, all they'd have is Kevlar helmets and trauma plates against fully armored career melee fighters.
At one time in my life, I was a USMC recruit (short story, heat injury, discharged, bus ticket back home), and while we did learn MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) incorporating bayonet fighting and close quarter techniques, none of it involved wearing plate armor.
Warfare has changed, and individual survival would come down to each man and woman adapting to being cut off from modern resupply in a Bronze-Era battlefield.

This would get nasty, but I'd like to think the Corps would show the Empire exactly what a "Canis Diabolo" looks like before the end.
"Now we can attack in all directions."
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
The Roman Empire army is estimated to be about 300-400k strong*. of course, the figure could increase significantly if Rome perceived a threat to the empire. The population is estimated at between 45 - 60 m between 14 and 164 CE*. If we are to assume that the ratio between males and females are roughly the same, then there should be between 22m - 30m men, probably at least half of them able to serve in the army.
Assuming people are willing to defend the empire, then you could have about 10-15 million people defending Rome against what, 80k marines..? This would mean that each 8 marines would have to defeat 1-1.5k romans who have the tactical advantage of knowing the region well (meaning, sniper shots is not out of the equation).

to take this into perspective, imagine a small, plain ruler. they typically are 30cm in length (edit: lol at the typo. i meant cm, not m)
imagine that 1/4 of that ruler represent the marine. the length of 3-4 FIFA football/soccer fields would represent the estimate for the armies, and 10-15 fields would represent the theoretical army size (when they recruit as many able men as possible).

*according to the wiki page, anyways.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16

namealreadytaken wrote:

ah thanks, so ruling through fear is the only option...though i suspect it won't last very long. a clever roman strategist might see through the farce, and attack them when the opportunity comes. avoiding conflict until they reach Rome... i don't think the empire will let them in that easily, not that i would know.


Well yeah I didn't say it'd be a good option or even an easy one. And I see no good long term strategy for this Marine unit . Sure they might take Rome, even sit their asses down on the Emperor's throne but Rome is a an Empire that made it's name through constant warfare. Something the Marines do not have the supplies or logistical support to do in this scenario.

And to be fair I'd say no modern military unit regardless of country of origin would do better. The modern soldier is neither trained nor conditioned to fight Iron Age warfare once their supplies run out. And given the enormous caloric requirements required of fighting soldiers just feeding yourselves would become a hassle when you're stuck in the past. Since you wouldn't have the manpower to spare for both foraging and defending yourself when you're surrounded by the entire bulk of the Roman Legion.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
The numbers difference wont help the Romans much When two cultures, that have been separate for thousands of years meet in battle. The victor is the more advanced culture. Not because of, numbers, better weapons or tactics; but because of better hygiene. Once the romans met the marines and exchanged blood in combat it will be over. Both groups would get sick in massive numbers, but the marines unlike the Romans would know what was happening,and would take steps to quarantine the ensuing outbreak. In addition, the marines who were born into a fully connected 21st century world, would have immunity against most pathogens they would encounter. While the Romans would be exposed to bacteria and viruses from the Americas that they would have never come across. In addition their crops would likely not be immune to modern day fungi so they would have a food shortage as well.

This is exactly what happened when the Spanish and dutch conquered the Americas.
where a group of less than 1400 Spanish soldiers lead by Cortes. With 6 canons and 100 horses managed to destroy the entire Aztec civilization, with it's 200,000- 300,000 soldiers. While the Spanish had some advanced weapons like primitive firearms it was the pathogens they brought with them that did most of the work. mostly small pox

While the roman legion was massive it was spread very thin, with territory as far north as Britain, encompassing western Europe, north Africa and much of the middle east. Naturally most of the forces would be spread along the borders, and at at the capital cities. As this is before the days of information tech, it would take over a year to amass the entire legion in any one spot. Which they would never do anyway, as the massive power vacuum that would leave would cause them to loose territory to their neighbors. In addition the forces within the borders would be lightly trained and inexperienced. Plus lets not forget that Rome had a senate, that would take months to deliberate over how to deal with the situation. As this would hardly be the only campaign they were fighting there would be debate over where to focus their efforts . Of course this is only after they began to take the stories of an army of men with sticks that shoot fire and iron moving castles seriously.
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Posted 5/19/16

silverflame10000 wrote:

The numbers difference wont help the Romans much When two cultures, that have been separate for thousands of years meet in battle. The victor is the more advanced culture. Not because of, numbers, better weapons or tactics; but because of better hygiene. Once the romans met the marines and exchanged blood in combat it will be over. Both groups would get sick in massive numbers, but the marines unlike the Romans would know what was happening,and would take steps to quarantine the ensuing outbreak. In addition, the marines who were born into a fully connected 21st century world, would have immunity against most pathogens they would encounter. While the Romans would be exposed to bacteria and viruses from the Americas that they would have never come across. In addition their crops would likely not be immune to modern day fungi so they would have a food shortage as well.

This is exactly what happened when the Spanish and dutch conquered the Americas.
where a group of less than 1400 Spanish soldiers lead by Cortes. With 6 canons and 100 horses managed to destroy the entire Aztec civilization, with it's 200,000- 300,000 soldiers. While the Spanish had some advanced weapons like primitive firearms it was the pathogens they brought with them that did most of the work. mostly small pox

While the roman legion was massive it was spread very thin, with territory as far north as Britain, encompassing western Europe, north Africa and much of the middle east. Naturally most of the forces would be spread along the borders, and at at the capital cities. As this is before the days of information tech, it would take over a year to amass the entire legion in any one spot. Which they would never do anyway, as the massive power vacuum that would leave would cause them to loose territory to their neighbors. In addition the forces within the borders would be lightly trained and inexperienced. Plus lets not forget that Rome had a senate, that would take months to deliberate over how to deal with the situation. As this would hardly be the only campaign they were fighting there would be debate over where to focus their efforts . Of course this is only after they began to take the stories of an army of men with sticks that shoot fire and iron moving castles seriously.


You're really overestimating the effectiveness of a single marine unit mate . They are not special forces. They are rank and file troops who've shown despite their vaunted motto a poor ability to adapt to changing situations..if the sheer amount of casualties the USMC has taken over it's existence is anything to go by. Not to mention how often Marines end up killing other Marines and their allies.

And why are you over looking the fact this unit would have at best a week's worth of supplies. Even if the senate of Rome took months to decide a best course of action the Marine unit would have likely starved to death long before they could do any real damage. Killing a few local garrisons sin't going to shake an entire Empire.
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Posted 5/19/16
This sounds like a very worthwhile movie. Nice post.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
All good points. but you seem to be missing my main point. Cortes's men weren't special forces either, and the difference in tech between them and the Aztec's wasn't nearly as great as the difference between modern army's and those of the 1st century. if Cortes could overcome a force 250 times greater in number, thanks to small pox. I see no reason why a modern marine unit could not defeat an enemy force 1000 or more times greater in number, provided they had enough pathogens on their side.

I am not at all saying the marines are a perfect fighting force. They would probably split up upon realizing they have no way home. Most would have no real motivation to do anything. But you see that is why they would be more successful in the long run. A good portion would probably dissolve into a maundering band of very well trained savages, sacking villages stealing their food and liquor and most importantly doing horrible things to all the women they came across. And letting some of them live. Then these women would spread out, into neighboring cities and towns unknowingly spreading plague wherever they go, a la typhoid Mary. Just like the Spaniards did.

The few loyal troops could modify their vehicles to run on wood. I know it sounds stupid but it's real look up "ww2 woodgas cars "
allowing them infinite range, and the ability to conduct nightly raids to steal food. with the Romans cobblestone roads they could escape without a trace, and hold out as long as they need.


While it is true that they would under perfect conditions they would eventually be over run. Long before that point they would have spread enough infectious disease that even if they were defeated, they still win. Because by the time capable troops could be summoned from the various distant campaigns Rome was always engaging in. Everyone in the major cites would be dead. From a combination of: influenza, cholera, polio, small pox, hepatitis, HIV, HPV, e coli, typhoid, syphilis and every other modern disease we have vaccines for, that the marines would carry with them. Like the black death but with 30 different pathogens fighting for supremacy. The returning legion would soon follow the rest of rome to their graves. After being worn out from thousand mile long marches they would be even more susceptible. The 1-2 percent that survive will be forced to leave the Mediterranean, as all of the Romans crops would die as well. Just like what happened during the Irish potato famine. They would spread out bringing an end to all neighboring civilizations.


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Posted 5/20/16 , edited 5/20/16

silverflame10000 wrote:

The numbers difference wont help the Romans much When two cultures, that have been separate for thousands of years meet in battle. The victor is the more advanced culture. Not because of, numbers, better weapons or tactics; but because of better hygiene. Once the romans met the marines and exchanged blood in combat it will be over. Both groups would get sick in massive numbers, but the marines unlike the Romans would know what was happening,and would take steps to quarantine the ensuing outbreak. In addition, the marines who were born into a fully connected 21st century world, would have immunity against most pathogens they would encounter. While the Romans would be exposed to bacteria and viruses from the Americas that they would have never come across. In addition their crops would likely not be immune to modern day fungi so they would have a food shortage as well.

This is exactly what happened when the Spanish and dutch conquered the Americas.
where a group of less than 1400 Spanish soldiers lead by Cortes. With 6 canons and 100 horses managed to destroy the entire Aztec civilization, with it's 200,000- 300,000 soldiers. While the Spanish had some advanced weapons like primitive firearms it was the pathogens they brought with them that did most of the work. mostly small pox

While the roman legion was massive it was spread very thin, with territory as far north as Britain, encompassing western Europe, north Africa and much of the middle east. Naturally most of the forces would be spread along the borders, and at at the capital cities. As this is before the days of information tech, it would take over a year to amass the entire legion in any one spot. Which they would never do anyway, as the massive power vacuum that would leave would cause them to loose territory to their neighbors. In addition the forces within the borders would be lightly trained and inexperienced. Plus lets not forget that Rome had a senate, that would take months to deliberate over how to deal with the situation. As this would hardly be the only campaign they were fighting there would be debate over where to focus their efforts . Of course this is only after they began to take the stories of an army of men with sticks that shoot fire and iron moving castles seriously.



I never thought of that, But I thought that those who are in good health are immune to most of the disease back than, otherwise they wouldn't be in Legions in the first place. I heard that the reason parents don't want their kids to take shot for Flu, is because they want them to have stronger immunity system (build up by natural way) without depending on Meds.

So wouldn't it be other way? Marine might catch something over there that no longer exist here in modern days due to clean up most of the viruses?
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