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Post Reply Rome, Sweet Rome': Could a Single Marine Unit Destroy the Roman Empire?
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Posted 5/20/16
No. They would do really well at first but after they ran out of supplies they would die on the vine. A Marine BN is good for about 30 days with ship support. With out ship support about three days. Logistics is what keeps our military the best in the world. Without resupply they would become a regular fighting force for the time....untrained at sword to sword fighting, ground formation movement, or Cav fighting. They would make interesting gladiators after they were captured.

A Marine BN is awesome but without the MEU support won't last long...no air support, no artillery, no tanks, no logistics.
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Posted 5/21/16

I never thought of that, But I thought that those who are in good health are immune to most of the disease back than, otherwise they wouldn't be in Legions in the first place. I heard that the reason parents don't want their kids to take shot for Flu, is because they want them to have stronger immunity system (build up by natural way) without depending on Meds.

So wouldn't it be other way? Marine might catch something over there that no longer exist here in modern days due to clean up most of the viruses?


The pathogens of our era are much more potent than those of any era before. By over using antibiotics like penicillin, we have bread viruses and bacteria that are more resistant to our own immune responses. While the're might be some bugs from the 1st century that don't exist now, we would likely still have some resistance to them today. As we each inherit our immunity from our mothers. In the form of mitochondrial dna, and antibodies delivered through breast milk. While it is true that the actual legionaries would be more resistant than the average modern human. Rome's ruling classes, citizens and merchants in cities and the everyday farmer would not. Among them the mortality rate would be high enough to lead to societal collapse.
The marines medics would likely have antibiotics that they could use to slow the outbreak among their ranks. But even so for the reason you mentioned their mortality rate would be very high as well.

In any case it is completely feasible that a force of 10000, men brought back to the first century; would carry enough pathogens to destroy the roman empire and all of it's neighbors. Even if none of them live to see it.

I would certainly watch this movie. Even if the ending would be the same as the ending of well's "War of the Worlds"
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Posted 5/22/16
I just finished watching Gate Episode 2, Yea that would exactly happen.. I bet that General probably thinking if we have that weapon we could rule the world haha.



Voc666IV wrote:

If you want a basic idea of what would happen (battlewise), watch ep 2 of gate

http://www.crunchyroll.com/gate/episode-2-the-two-armies-682115

The marines would crush the roman legionaries and could bring the Roman Empire to its knees providing they did not run out of ammunition. If you want a historical example, look up the conquest of South America by the Castilians and the Aragonese. At best he the Spaniards were able to field a few hundred men however, they were able to bring down several large empires which could field muster of thousands of men. For example at the battle of Otumba less than a thousand 1000 Spaniards and Tlaxcalans were able to beat an Aztec army estimated to be well into the tens of thousands if not more. The marines would be nearly 2000 years ahead in military technology, if they went toe to toe with a roman amry the outcome would be decisivly in their favour.

However, the biggest problem the marines would face would be the lack of supplies and a complete inability to replace their ammunition and weaponry. Additionally, when they ran out of ammunition, they be at a severe disadvantage and would be crushed because they had not been trained to fight hand-to-hand. Vehicles would quickly become useless as they ran out of fuel and unless they could move the artillery by hand or draught animals that would have to be abandoned. Radio communications would soon become redundant due to the lack of electricity in the Roman world. Simply put, the marines technology would be a temporary god level buff however when that wore off, they would be fucked.



TLDR: the marines would have to instigate a blitzkrieg in order to be victorious otherwise the Roman Empire would win through attrition.


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Posted 5/22/16

Shinosushi wrote:

No. They would do really well at first but after they ran out of supplies they would die on the vine. A Marine BN is good for about 30 days with ship support. With out ship support about three days. Logistics is what keeps our military the best in the world. Without resupply they would become a regular fighting force for the time....untrained at sword to sword fighting, ground formation movement, or Cav fighting. They would make interesting gladiators after they were captured.

A Marine BN is awesome but without the MEU support won't last long...no air support, no artillery, no tanks, no logistics.



They would make interesting gladiators after they were captured.


That true, because they have learn many different Techiniques from hand to hand combat instructors that Romans never seen before! I'm sure Roman swordsman would be watching them closely if there any Marine that happen to have vast knowledge in Swordsmanship.. probably learned from Martial Art school that came from Japan or China.

I would think that Marine would be treated with kindness and offer many thing that he/she desire!
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Posted 5/22/16
Rory from Gate would win.
Ronxz 
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Posted 5/22/16
I think you'd be shocked what the marines would come up with to keep their equipment in working condition. Marines are also trained to work on as little as possible so they would make every bullet, bomb, and gallon count. While it might be difficult there is a good chance they'd come up with something to replace the refined gasoline or at least attempt too and I know plenty of people who make their own ammunition and gunpowder from scratch so they'd replace their ammo as well. The Roman Empire would win in the end I believe but only because they'd bring massive numbers to bear and simply zerg the enemy OR they would offer the marines their own small country to join them.
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Posted 5/22/16

Archmechanite wrote:

Rory from Gate would win.



Of course she is Demi-God :p, Except she'll fall for Marcus Octavius's charm :p.
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Posted 5/22/16

Ronxz wrote:

I think you'd be shocked what the marines would come up with to keep their equipment in working condition. Marines are also trained to work on as little as possible so they would make every bullet, bomb, and gallon count. While it might be difficult there is a good chance they'd come up with something to replace the refined gasoline or at least attempt too and I know plenty of people who make their own ammunition and gunpowder from scratch so they'd replace their ammo as well. The Roman Empire would win in the end I believe but only because they'd bring massive numbers to bear and simply zerg the enemy OR they would offer the marines their own small country to join them.



I would think Marines would found themself a Allies (Barbarians and others who frought for their land etc) after witnessing them in battle against Roman Empire.

Also I would think Marines will figured out how to get back in their time by going to the sources.. If no luck than I'm assuming they'll find clan worth fighting for up against Roman Empire.
Posted 5/22/16
One well placed bullet can change everything.
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Posted 5/22/16
So let's get the numbers straight, we got one jacked up Canadian who has never served (other than fries at a drive-through) claiming all kinds of wild shit, and some other people with ideas. But no raw numbers have been put out.


United States Marine Corps[edit]
See also: List of United States Marine Corps battalions
A United States Marine Corps battalion includes the battalion headquarters, consisting of the commanding officer (usually a lieutenant colonel, sometimes a colonel), an executive officer (the second-in-command, usually a major), the sergeant major, and the executive staff (S-1 through S-4 and S-6). The battalion headquarters is supported by a headquarters and service company (battery). A battalion usually contains two to five organic companies (batteries in the artillery), with a total of 500 to 1,200 marines in the battalion. A regiment consists of a regimental headquarters, a headquarters company (or battery), and two to five organic battalions (marine infantry regiments – three battalions of infantry; marine artillery regiments – three to five battalions of artillery; marine combat logistics regiments – one to three combat logistics battalions). In the U.S. Marine Corps, the brigade designation is used only in "marine expeditionary brigade" (MEB). An MEB is one of the standard marine air-ground task forces (MAGTF), is commanded by a brigadier general or major general, and consists of command element, a ground combat element (usually one reinforced marine infantry regiment), an aviation combat element (a reinforced marine aircraft group including rotary wing, fixed wing, and tiltrotor aircraft), and a combat logistics element (a marine combat logistics regiment, which includes naval construction forces [Seabees] and naval medical elements).

In the U.S. Marine Corps, an infantry or "rifle" battalion typically consists of a headquarters and service company, three rifle, or "line", companies (designated alphabetically A through M depending upon which battalion of the parent regiment to which they are attached) and a weapons company. Weapons companies do not receive a letter designation. Marine infantry regiments use battalion and company designations as described above under World War II, with company letters D, H, and M not normally used but rather held in reserve for use in augmenting a fourth rifle company into each battalion as needed.

United States Marine Corps infantry battalions are task organized into battalion landing teams (BLTs) as the ground combat element (GCE) of a marine expeditionary unit (MEU). A standard U.S. Marine infantry battalion is typically supported by an artillery battery and a platoon each of tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, light armored reconnaissance vehicles, reconnaissance marines, and combat engineers. The battalion structure is designed to readily expand to include a fourth rifle company, if required, as described above under battalion organization. Often Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company (ANGLICO) officers are assigned to the battalion, to coordinate naval gunfire support.


Now are we talking about a full company plus medical staff? Remember, Marines don't have medics, they have Navy corpsman that are attached to them to serve as that role. There are other roles that Marines don't do. Fuel would be a major issue, but for spare parts, you'd just pick over the bones of your damaged units. You can hit far enough out with even a M4 to do damage, and anything else will go through things like a hot knife through butter.

I mean you wouldn't have to worry about air coverage, so you could just load up some planes and just flatten Rome into the ground. Cut off the head, and the body dies.



Not like we haven't flattened Italy before.

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Posted 5/22/16

runec wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

I don't mean to sound overly critical of the USMC but calling them highly trained is a bit much. From what I've seen of them they lack operational discipline and frankly a shockingly high number of friendly fire incidents. So much so they call it friendly fucking for crying out loud.

And let's face it the Americans have never been good at handling being surrounded and outnumbered. Most of the major American victories in history have happened when they either a) had a clear numerical superiority or b) a clear logistical superiority. And usually both most of the time.

Then there is the sheer language barrier . Even if the this MEU felt like recruiting locals or hiring mercenaries I doubt they could. Mainly since few people in the modern world speak either Latin or Ancient Greek well enough to hold a conversation. Let alone discussing the intricacies of military training and strategy.



Yeah, I'm with Ran on this one. Though with slightly more polite language. Marines are not the most "highly trained warriors in the world".

There would be short term devastation but long term not a chance. Possibly not even mid term. The greatest advantage marines would have is technological but that technology is critically dependent on supply lines. Their fuel, ammunition, food, etc would run out pretty quick. They would have no logistical support, no accurate maps, etc. They wouldn't be able to speak the local languages and certainly don't have any local currencies. They wouldn't have much with them they could feasibly barter with either even if they did speak the language. And even if you spoke the language, you have a different system of numbers and math to contend with as well.

Then there's the matter of sanitation and disease. The landscape of communicable diseases was quite a bit different back then. You'd better hope all your shots are up to date and you got a full bevy of traveler's vaccines before you left.

So, short term sure if they immediately found themselves engaged with a Roman legion the moment they arrived they would cause a lot of damage. Mid term they would have great difficulty with supplies and logistics. Long term any survivors would probably shit themselves to death in an olive field.

I mean, once the bang bang toys run out Marines aren't really equipped to fight a shield wall hand to hand. Melee CQC is a back up plan for the modern soldier, not the chief means of combat. You've got a knife and probably a trench shovel. Fighting against a guy thats basically holding a riot shield and a harpoon. Inevitably you would probably switch to the weapons of the time. Then you're just hoping you can use them better than the people that made them.

But at that point you're on their terms fighting with their weapons. Sure, guerrilla tactics could carry you for a bit but then you're just an annoyance, not a threat. Romans weren't idiots and they placed great emphasis on defense in terms of their military camps, etc. You're not going to sneak in Rambo style and knife them all in their sleep.

Guerrilla tactics rely on knowledge of terrain though as well as having applicable terrain around to begin with. Trying to sneak up on a dude with a knife isn't going to get you too far if you get run down by cavalry in the open a few minutes later.




You assume that the Marines and their officers are stupid. I doubt very much that, that is the case. They have Machetes, bayonets and their combat knives. They are also smart enough to pick up weapons and armor. a lot depends on how they use what they have.
runec 
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Posted 5/22/16

wolfbrother0 wrote:
You assume that the Marines and their officers are stupid. I doubt very much that, that is the case. They have Machetes, bayonets and their combat knives. They are also smart enough to pick up weapons and armor. a lot depends on how they use what they have.


I did not assume that. I even mentioned what they would likely have and that they would likely need to switch to the weapons of the era. A machete, bayonet or combat knife is not going to get you past a great shield or out reach a Roman spear. Eventually, they will have to rely on the weapons of the time period and when that happens they're on the same technological footing as the Romans but severely outnumbered.

Marine training doesn't tend to include how to fight sword and board against a Roman legion. -.-

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Posted 5/22/16
Idk.... but one Spider-Man can destroy a whole Marine unit.
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Posted 5/22/16

thekevin4 wrote:

Idk.... but one Spider-Man can destroy a whole Marine unit.



And I (Marcus Octavius) will challenge Spider-man a duel.. After all Spider man is also immortal!! You didn't know that did you!

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Posted 5/22/16

JanusCascade wrote:


thekevin4 wrote:

Idk.... but one Spider-Man can destroy a whole Marine unit.



And I (Marcus Octavius) will challenge Spider-man a duel.. After all Spider man is also immortal!! You didn't know that did you!



Of course I knew I was an immortal you fool. You are no threat to me, Colin MacLeod already beheaded you and brought about your quickening.

I even traveled back in time afterwards and went to Rome and peed in your wine glass... here is a selfie I took when I was thwipping away from the scene of the crime.

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