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Post Reply The common narrative of Reagan competency is incorrect and false
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39 / Inside your compu...
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
The mythical picture of Reagan who was credited with so many things during his presidency is false.

Reagan's presidential success was built by the people around him, and not Reagan himself.

http://www.russia-direct.org/reviews/history-cold-war-it-has-never-been-told


Some of his advisors, who, unlike the president they served, were highly educated men, were all too eager to play to Reagan’s naiveté in order to advance their hawkish agenda. Thankfully a lot of that (though, as witness the Iran-Contra scandal, not nearly enough of it) ended with George Shultz’s appointment as Reagan’s second Secretary of State in July 1983.
Shultz cut an impressive figure. A veteran of the Pacific campaign in World War II, he went on to earn a doctorate in industrial economics from MIT before holding three cabinet-level positions in the Nixon administration.
Henry Kissinger, who, probably because he couldn’t help himself, spent the 1980s ridiculing Shultz as a rank amateur behind his back, had previously written that, “There was no position in government for which George Shultz would not be my first choice. No other public figure has held so many positions of trust.”
About Gorbachev, Wilson is unequivocal: He was “the indispensable agent of change.” Yet, he presents a balanced view of the man. Like his American counterpart, he was not averse to vacant sloganeering, often speaking of “spiritualization,” “a common European home,” and “a revolution in consciousness.” Yet, unlike Reagan, he knew how to manage (and oftentimes jettison) underlings who were working at cross-purposes.


Instead of bemoaning the next president as a criminal or a bozo (I still think Hillary's the next president, and yes I saw the latest polls), paying attention to the people the next president have around as advisors would provide a better picture of the presidency.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
I cared more about politics when I was a kid than I do now. Funny how things turn out.
I know this doesn't add much but the thread looked so cold and empty so I felt like I should post something.
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Posted 5/19/16

ZavinRoyalheart wrote:

I cared more about politics when I was a kid than I do now. Funny how things turn out.
I know this doesn't add much but the thread looked so cold and empty so I felt like I should post something.


I haven't voted since that protest vote I did for Ron Paul.

Pretty much gave up after that.

The political system needs something to blow it up. To a million pieces.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16
Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16

maxgale wrote:

Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.


At best he gave Gorbachev a way to save face and wind down the USSR in an orderly fashion. The USSR was going to collapse regardless of who was in office in the US.
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Posted 5/19/16 , edited 5/19/16

mlchanges wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.


At best he gave Gorbachev a way to save face and wind down the USSR in an orderly fashion. The USSR was going to collapse regardless of who was in office in the US.




Well, no, almost every economist and think tank believed the USSR was something the US would have to "coexist" with. It was through Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul the Second inspiring rebellions while forcing the Soviets to go broke to match military expenditures that defeated them peacefully and definitively.


What you and OP offer is revisionist history.
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Posted 5/19/16

maxgale wrote:


mlchanges wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.


At best he gave Gorbachev a way to save face and wind down the USSR in an orderly fashion. The USSR was going to collapse regardless of who was in office in the US.




Well, no, almost every economist and think tank believed the USSR was something the US would have to "coexist" with. It was through Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul the Second inspiring rebellions while forcing the Soviets to go broke to match military expenditures that defeated them peacefully and definitively.


What you and OP offer is revisionist history.


Exactly which parts of Wilson's narrative constitutes "revisionist history"?
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Posted 5/20/16 , edited 5/20/16

maxgale wrote:


mlchanges wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.


At best he gave Gorbachev a way to save face and wind down the USSR in an orderly fashion. The USSR was going to collapse regardless of who was in office in the US.




Well, no, almost every economist and think tank believed the USSR was something the US would have to "coexist" with. It was through Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul the Second inspiring rebellions while forcing the Soviets to go broke to match military expenditures that defeated them peacefully and definitively.


What you and OP offer is revisionist history.


Hindsight is 20/20. Take advantage of it.


edit: Interesting read. article requires registration.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/20/everything-you-think-you-know-about-the-collapse-of-the-soviet-union-is-wrong/
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Posted 5/20/16


I only got maybe 3 or 4 paragraphs in before I was required to register on the site to continue. I'll look into this later, but look good so far.
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Posted 5/20/16
Of course it is, they finally released information that the CIA during the Reagan administration was putting drugs in black and Hispanic communities with his approval.
Posted 5/20/16
Politics is all show and failed promises, and the supreme court is one big joke
over- turning what ever comes there way? Me along with my sister stopped voting long ago
and if someone say's vote makes a difference give me proof cause things i voted on the supreme court over -ruled.
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Posted 5/20/16
As early as 2009 conservatives were raising serious questions about the extreme and sometimes fringe credentials of the 'Czars' that Obama surrounded himself with, and look where it got them. They were demonized and Obama was elected to a second term.

To paraphrase and bastardize HL Menken: Never overestimate the intelligence of the voting public.

I also agree about the USSR link, it was quite interesting, as far as I was allowed to go.
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Posted 5/20/16

nanikore2 wrote:



I only got maybe 3 or 4 paragraphs in before I was required to register on the site to continue. I'll look into this later, but look good so far.


sorry about that, tab was open all day with no nagging. closed it and followed the link and got smacked with it myself. I'll edit the original post.
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Posted 5/20/16

mlchanges wrote:


maxgale wrote:


mlchanges wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Won the Cold War and ushered in freedom for hundreds of millions of people.


So nah, underrated if anything.


At best he gave Gorbachev a way to save face and wind down the USSR in an orderly fashion. The USSR was going to collapse regardless of who was in office in the US.




Well, no, almost every economist and think tank believed the USSR was something the US would have to "coexist" with. It was through Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul the Second inspiring rebellions while forcing the Soviets to go broke to match military expenditures that defeated them peacefully and definitively.


What you and OP offer is revisionist history.


Hindsight is 20/20. Take advantage of it.


edit: Interesting read. article requires registration.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/20/everything-you-think-you-know-about-the-collapse-of-the-soviet-union-is-wrong/



Article only goes for a few paragraphs....


However:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2004/06/ron_and_mikhails_excellent_adventure.2.html
http://stanfordreview.org/article/did-ronald-reagan-win-the-cold-war/
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Posted 5/20/16

Wilson’s account has many virtues, not least of which is that it quite successfully challenges some of Washington’s most treasured myths, like Robert Gates’ reputation and the neoconservative myth of Reagan the hardliner.




On August 5, 1981 Ronald Reagan fired 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored an order to return to work, and as if that wasn't enough, he also banned them from federal service for life.

That sounds pretty hardline to me. He was just as rabid in his dislike of communism, he played head games with their leadership. But the USSR was already doomed regardless of what Reagan did, he was merely expediting the process, as well as exploiting it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_administration#Confrontation
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