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Post Reply A-Bomb Survivors Want Obama to Meet, Apologize in Hiroshima
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20 / M / Imoutoland!
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Posted 5/21/16 , edited 5/21/16
The common misconception was that we HAD to invade the mainland of Japan versus the H Bomb, or that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've been considered "military targets" (although we killed far more people with the firebombing of civilian areas campaign apparently) I'm not against such acts though of apparent terrorism. Well, maybe.
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Posted 5/21/16

namealreadytaken wrote:

that's completely overlooking the fact that Germany apologized repeatedly. iirc the chancellor went so far as bow down and shed tears of repentance. it wasn't just one chancellor that gave an apology, mind you. they even went so far as to make denying war crimes made by Germany during WW2 a criminal offense and punishable by a heavy fine & prison

in Japan, the prime ministers stopped short of giving a true apology to the victims, and they still honor the war criminals as "heroes".
Abe himself is a radical nationalist.


I'm aware that Germany's chancellors have apologized repeatedly. I'm also aware that radical groups are on the rise in Europe again, spouting much of the same rhetoric that was used against Jews, homosexuals, and the Rom, only this time against Muslims.

However:

Has the US ever apologized for the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo? Make no mistake those were war crimes, and the Allies knew it. One side committing a war crime (the fire bombings of London) does not give the other side carte blanche to do the same.

Has the US apologized for its actions in Central and South America?

Has the US apologized for supporting numerous dictators, including overthrowing legitimate governments and installing same (e.g. Saddam Hussein)?

Do I think Japan should apologize? Certainly, but we shouldn't try to claim a moral high ground when we're just as bad.

D4nc3Style wrote:


The alternative was an invasion that would have dwarfed D-Day and resulted in 2-5 million American casualties and 5-10 million Japanese casualties. That's assuming the Soviet Union didn't follow through with their invasion of Northern Japan, which would have likely put Japan in the same situation as Korea, i.e. North Japan and South Japan.


Japan was on its last legs - material resources and trained personnel were all in short supply at that point. There's back and forth on whether the casualty rate would have been as high as initially suggested, but I agree that it wouldn't have been easy. I'm not sure however if the Soviet Union could have provided the sealift to invade northern Japan without a separate Allied invasion already in place.


You want the US to regret making a decision that led to ten times fewer deaths....


If we're going to insist on apologies, then we need to admit our transgressions as well. I'm not happy with the fact that my country has repeatedly displayed less manners and morals than a shark at a feeding frenzy, especially when I was raised with the ideals of 'truth, justice, and the American Way'.

I'm fine with 'Yes, we used atomic weapons on a mostly civilian populace, and we apologize that it was felt necessary to do so in order to bring a swift resolution to the conflict. We'd like to create a world where such a decision isn't necessary ever again.'
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Posted 5/21/16
I understand why they want apologies, but it's been about 70-something years now.

I agree with who said that if the US wanted to apologize, they would've/should've did it ages ago. Besides, no disrespect to the survivors and to Japan, but...Japan still hasn't apologized for what it did during the war...

I'm sure South Korea and China would love the Japanese PM to come to their country and apologize
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20 / M / Imoutoland!
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Posted 5/21/16 , edited 5/24/16
You're not really suppose to apologize as just ACKNOWLEDGED it happened. I'm looking at you, Imperial Japanese Army for Nanking. Sure, it isn't your fault as you were barely alive, but this revisionist bullshit has got to stop.
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16 / F / Always my room
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Posted 5/21/16
Obama was not the one who dropped the bomb so I don't think he should have to apologize. But I do understand why the survivors would want an apology.
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Posted 5/21/16 , edited 5/21/16

KarenAraragi wrote:

No. We did what we have to do to win. Also, your country started the fight. Your country attacks us first. You refuse to surrender after being beaten. You force our hand. You decide to keep fighting after having the first A-Bomb drop on your ass. This is fucking stupid.


And THEN had the gall to say "You're bluffing--Just try it!" when we threatened to drop one on Nagasaki after they already knew in painful detail what it could do...


PeripheralVisionary wrote:Sure, it isn't your fault as you were barely alive, but this revisionist bullshit has got to stop.


So, not that they're actually going to kick out Abe, but when IS the next Parliamentary election?
He's starting to become the Donald Trump of Japan, and pretty much for the same reasons.
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Posted 5/21/16

namealreadytaken wrote:

maybe if Abe comes to S Korea and publicly apologizes for the war crimes.
but of course, they still try to deny that mass rape of children even happened.


Abe should also go to Nanjing and apologize for the soldiers who cooked and ate babies

(couldn't find the exact photo anymore but there are these other stuff http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d5_1415662994 )
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23 / M / Texas
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Posted 5/21/16 , edited 5/21/16
Um Obama didn't drop those bombs so why should he apologize? Ah well just do it and get it over with so maybe they all can put the decisions our forefathers made behind them.

Past is the past people, things have changed since then for better and worse so get over it and start looking to the future... or present... or post future. I don't know, but worrying about decisions made decades ago isn't gonna help people now.
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25 / M / The Void
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Posted 5/21/16
People now are not responsible for the crimes of the people in the past. That's my stance and always will be.
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Posted 5/21/16

nanikore2 wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

maybe if Abe comes to S Korea and publicly apologizes for the war crimes.
but of course, they still try to deny that mass rape of children even happened.


Abe should also go to Nanjing and apologize for the soldiers who cooked and ate babies

(couldn't find the exact photo anymore but there are these other stuff http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d5_1415662994 )


wow, that's pretty disgusting. even more so when you hear Japanese nationalists (and weeaboos) complaining that Japan is being a "victim" of international bullying.
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Posted 5/21/16

namealreadytaken wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

maybe if Abe comes to S Korea and publicly apologizes for the war crimes.
but of course, they still try to deny that mass rape of children even happened.


Abe should also go to Nanjing and apologize for the soldiers who cooked and ate babies

(couldn't find the exact photo anymore but there are these other stuff http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d5_1415662994 )


wow, that's pretty disgusting. even more so when you hear Japanese nationalists (and weeaboos) complaining that Japan is being a "victim" of international bullying.


Yeah. Sometimes I just don't want to be reminded of WWII and Japan together, because then I'm reminded of Nanjing/Nanking massacre.

Also, that's really not the end of the abject cruelty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Posted 5/21/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

The common misconception was that we HAD to invade the mainland of Japan versus the H Bomb, or that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've been considered "military targets" (although we killed far more people with the firebombing of civilian areas campaign apparently) I'm not against such acts though of apparent terrorism. Well, maybe.


I remember reading about the plans for the invasion of Japan. They should consider themselves lucky. Not only more people would have died compared to the A-bomb deads. The damage would have been nearly unfixable. They were planning to use A-bombs as tactical weapons. Would have render half of Japan a wasteland.
runec 
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Posted 5/21/16
1) I'm kind of surprised the US hasn't apologized already ( even if just in an acknowledging way ).
2) These were war crimes. The US went so far as to censor any information about the aftermath from Japan.
3) Arguing that the US shouldn't apologize because Japan hasn't is childish.

Yes, Japan did quite a few terrible things. But the US did as well. You should take the moral high road regardless of what Japan does.

Besides, visiting Hiroshima without even acknowledging the bombing is ignoring perhaps the biggest elephant in the room in modern history.



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Posted 5/21/16

runec wrote:

1) I'm kind of surprised the US hasn't apologized already ( even if just in an acknowledging way ).
2) These were war crimes. The US went so far as to censor any information about the aftermath from Japan.
3) Arguing that the US shouldn't apologize because Japan hasn't is childish.

Yes, Japan did quite a few terrible things. But the US did as well. You should take the moral high road regardless of what Japan does.

Besides, visiting Hiroshima without even acknowledging the bombing is ignoring perhaps the biggest elephant in the room in modern history.

remember how Obama bowed to the emperor?

btw, Japan don't want an apology, apparently:


Japan's Vice Foreign Minister Mitoji Yabunaka telling U.S. Ambassador John Roos that "the idea of President Obama visiting Hiroshima to apologize for the atomic bombing during World War II is a 'nonstarter.'"


the article says that this would undermine efforts of advancing nuclear energy in Japan.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/5229/Wikileaks-Japan-refused-Obama-Hiroshima-Apology.aspx
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Posted 5/21/16

namealreadytaken wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

maybe if Abe comes to S Korea and publicly apologizes for the war crimes.
but of course, they still try to deny that mass rape of children even happened.


Abe should also go to Nanjing and apologize for the soldiers who cooked and ate babies

(couldn't find the exact photo anymore but there are these other stuff http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d5_1415662994 )


wow, that's pretty disgusting. even more so when you hear Japanese nationalists (and weeaboos) complaining that Japan is being a "victim" of international bullying.


Unfortunately, Japan has always had a culture of historical revisionism in the post-WW2 world, which creates this idea that Japan was the victim. The Japanese far right, who tend to control the Parliament, have a history of thinking of the war in Asia as a war to liberate Asia from European colonialism, and that the US occupation was an attempt to snuff out Japanese cultural traditions. Because of this, Japan's role in the second world war is either rarely spoken about in schools, or its looked at through a more rose-colored lens. Because of this revisionism the common view of Nanking was that it was already in chaos, and that the Imperial Army came in, restored order, and nothing happened after that.
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