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Post Reply A-Bomb Survivors Want Obama to Meet, Apologize in Hiroshima
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Posted 5/21/16

lawdog wrote:

The bombs were a tragic necessity, but they saved countless lives.


7) And in a country where most pre-war traditional houses were wood and bamboo, the possibilities of keeping any isolated-target battle on the mainland from becoming a raging wildfire that would take out of most the civilian villages, would have been SLIM.
At least they still made brick buildings in Germany.
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Posted 5/21/16
Without the bomb the Japanese would never have surrendered until the last one of them was dead. The government was arming even women and children to defend the country to the bitter end. It was a very different world back then.

There is no need to apologize since just about everyone that was running the show back then is now dead.
It all worked out in the end, our countries are great allies, business partners, and friends. Things would have been a lot different if it was China or Russia that delivered the final blow. To this day China hates on Japan for the thousand of years of conflict between them. It's pretty stupid to hold a grudge that long, that's why the middle east is the mess it is today. Thousand year old feuds, millions dead, for what? People don't even know what they are fighting over anymore. Get over the shit that your great great grandpa was angry about, and move on.

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19 / M / I don't know??
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Posted 5/21/16
I completely agree with Obama an apology should not be given.

Firstly because they forced the U.S to use the bomb, attacking pearl harbor just because they wanted control of the Philippines.

Secondly, they were intent on continuing the fight no matter what.

Thirdly, after the bombs were used America and the allies sent help to Japan. the U.S even brought some Japanese people affected by the radiation to the U.S for treatment (they didn't have much but they still felt the responsibility to do so).

Lastly, Obama can't be held responsible for a decision he didn't make.
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Posted 5/21/16
Its understandable that some of the survivors feel compelled to ask for an apology now that they're at the final stage of life. They are the only ones on Earth who know firsthand the true effects and the aftermath of an Atomic Bomb. Now I'm not saying that Obama should apologize to them, I mean he wasn't even born when it happened, but their sentiments should at least be acknowledged in some form or manner but not necessarily by him.

Personally, I think they should also ask the Imperial Family for a formal apology, but they probably wouldn't due to fear of the violent radial right-wing imperial extremists. For some of the people who seem haven't actually read the article, here are are a few quotes from this article and another that shows the ones asking for an apology of some sort:

"Toshiki Fujimori, a survivor of the Hiroshima atomic bombing, said he found it awkward to hear local and central government officials say they are not asking for an apology...He said the survivors want Obama to know that their suffering is not limited to immediate damage and visible, physical scars. They also suffered discrimination at work, in marriage and in other areas of their lives, from their own people in Japan, said Fujimori, who nearly died in the blast at age 1."

"Terumi Tanaka, secretary general of the Japan Confederation of A-Bomb and H-Bomb Sufferers Organizations, said Thursday at a Tokyo news conference that survivors and their supporters had put aside long-standing demands that U.S. leaders publicly apologize for the bombings, in order to facilitate Obama’s visit. Nonetheless, Tanaka said Obama should apologize at least to the memory of those who died or those who personally suffered as a result of the atomic bombings. Tanaka was 13 years old and living in Nagasaki at the time of the bombing there."

"At a separate news conference, a leading member of Japan’s parliament said it would be “completely unacceptable” for Obama to visit Hiroshima without making an explicit apology. “If he is coming without an apology, he shouldn’t come at all,” said Shizuka Kamei, a representative of the Hiroshima region and a former top leader of Abe’s Liberal Democratic Party. Kamei’s older sister was killed in the Hiroshima bombing."

Here's the link for the other article:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/19/apology-question-hounds-obamas-planned-visit-hiroshima/84589324/
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Posted 5/21/16
Oh yeah. The day a tragic necessity befalls America

You'll get a "never forget" bs
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Posted 5/22/16
From a military history perspective, America was the aggressor in World War II against Japan. Military action includes economic action and we set the stage to counteract Japan. It was inevitable that the war would arise and every leader in America knew it. They just didn't know when. America made the choice to counterbalance against Japan. Had they not, there would have been no Pearl Harbor.

Let me be clear on the basic historical facts. America at no point in time was required to drop "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" on Japan to end the war. Yes we had plans to invade on the ground, but we also had plans to attack Russia after World War II, and even have plans today on how to invade Canada. The bombs were a show of strength to counterbalance a newly invigorated Russia. Even though the facts were that Russia was completely exhausted the West greatly feared their power and needed to put a line in the sand that no leader would dare cross.

Military rules, customs, and actions must always be defined in terms of politics. To quote the Prussian General Carl von Clausewitz, "War is the continuation of politics by other means." You cannot view war in terms of standard human morality.

Was it morally wrong for the United States to drop "Little Boy" and "Fat Man"? Absolutely. But the same can be said of countless events in countless wars across the entirety of human history. It is pointless to argue morality in war. The only difference between an election advertisement and a bomb is one kills people and the other doesn't. They both affect power and politics.

Should Obama apologize? How can he? In what sense would an apology matter or even become possible? Should it be viewed as a political or a personal apology?

Should America be sorry that we bombed Japan on moral grounds? Absolutely. Should Japan be sorry for every atrocity they committed in war on moral grounds? Absolutely. But neither needs to apologize as a nation. Neither can apologize as a nation. Words by politicians are empty. Even the President of the United States has no power to apologize for anything America has done.

It is ultimately actions that speak and it will always be actions that speak. Attending the ceremony speaks louder than any apology ever can. Even if every president every year apologized it would mean nothing against Obama attending only once and not saying a word. That is why he is actually doing what should have been done before most of us were born.
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Posted 5/22/16
LOL, no. Just no.
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21 / M / Missouri
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Posted 5/23/16 , edited 5/24/16
No.
The Japanese were being dicks to their neighbors long before that US embargo was set in place.
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25 / F / United States
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Posted 5/24/16
HECK NO [japan started it]
Posted 5/24/16

D4nc3Style wrote:


MeanderCat wrote:


Why should we be sorry, Japan? You started that fight and we ended it.


Economically, we started the fight long before when we told Japan that we wouldn't allow them to develop needed resources in that area.

Do I think Japan was wrong? Yes. But that doesn't mean the US was by any measure innocent.

The release of the two atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki triggered the paranoia of the 1950's against the 'Red Menace' (the same paranoia that's being inflamed today against Muslims), and they may not have been necessary to end the war.

Did Japan do terrible things to other countries' citizens during the war (and prior to it)? Absolutely. However, so did the US and the rest of the Allies so we shouldn't be too quick to claim the higher moral ground.



The alternative was an invasion that would have dwarfed D-Day and resulted in 2-5 million American casualties and 5-10 million Japanese casualties. That's assuming the Soviet Union didn't follow through with their invasion of Northern Japan, which would have likely put Japan in the same situation as Korea, i.e. North Japan and South Japan.

You want the US to regret making a decision that led to ten times fewer deaths and likely averted a North Korea-style puppet state in Northern Japan?


Normally, this fits, and you make a point. Both of you. What they ask an apology for is simple: The lives of those lost in the explosions. They did not deserve to die because of some stupid fucking war.
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Posted 5/24/16
First off, we kinda did start that fight. There was a lot of stuff happening with Japan prior to Pearl Harbor that left high tension between the US and Japan. Don't take the American history you learned in middle school and high school as 100% fact because it is our biased view on events.

However, to answer your question I don't think Obama should apologize for the bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki because it wasn't his decision and it was a time of war. I am not saying that it wasn't excessive after all not only did we drop two atomic bombs on their civilian cities, we carpet bombed the shit out of their country side and villages.

Any apologies that should have been made, should have came from the political and military leaders during WW2. I.E. President Roosevelt and the American generals listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commanders_of_World_War_II#United_States.

There is a point where its just too late to apologize for something because it no longer has the same meaning. To Obama this is really just an event from a book or film reels, he didn't actually experience it so there wouldn't be much meaning behind apologizing.
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Posted 5/24/16
When Japan apologizes for Nan-King and others, I'll apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki... maybe... probably not...
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Posted 5/24/16
Obama can express his sympathies for the dead and the survivors, but an apology from him won't be sincere at best. At worst it opens the door for legal or political headaches.

It's a tragedy that civilians got caught up in the war, but they're hardly alone in WWII. London was shelled with V2 rockets, German cities were firebombed, Japan took slaves in Korea and China, etc. The Geneva Conventions are about the most sincere apology they will ever get.
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Posted 5/24/16
Has Japan ever apologized for anything related to WWII? They don't even cover it in school. As far as I know they have expressed regret. Which basically means I'm sorry that happened.

When Abe apologizes for the following they can ask for one:

Nanking (350K killed by gun, bayonet or sword, Nazi's observing were sickened)
Bataan Death March (10-20K POWs died due to forced march)
25K British and Dutch sailors massacred after ships sunk (shooting survivors)
250K Chinese killed looking for Doolittle's men after raid.
Sex Slaves in Korea, China and Philippines, estimated 500K-1Million women ripped from homes forced into sexual labor
Raping Pillaging Murdering civilians whenever driven out of an area they controlled
Sadistic Experiments on Chinese and POWs too gruesome to mention
10-20 Million Chinese killed overall

The Two Atom Bombs and Firebombings in Japan do not even come close to the suffering Japan caused during WWII. And they have never apologized or agonized over them like Germany has.


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Posted 5/24/16
I can understand apologizing for a lot of things. But, it doesn't make sense to apologize for dropping bombs during a war. It wasn't even a surprise attack.
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