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Post Reply Japanese pop star in critical condition after knife attack by fan
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Posted 5/24/16
I hope she makes it.
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Posted 5/25/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
Doesn't the environment itself produced these sort of rules instead of the other way around?

I'm not sure I buy the causal attribution here.

The rules are there to adapt to the expectations of fans, who would financially punish the companies if they don't make and enforce those rules. Doesn't that seem to be the more reasonable assumption to take?


You're positing a chicken / egg dilemma. However, its the company that markets the product and is targeting an audience. Industries like this don't develop in a vacuum. The industry didn't go out on the street and go "Hey, how would you like your girls objectified and controlled?" then follow fan recommendations. The industry came up with the product first then honed in on a target market.

The target market just happens to be kinda creepy and the industry forces the stars/idols in question to cater to it. Young women entering an industry like this ( In Japan or the US ) have absolutely shit all in the way of power or control. AKB48 in particular is basically an idol meat factory with purity clauses written into their contracts. The whole basis of the group's concept is that the girls are suppose to be "accessible" to fans. This poor girl got knifed when she didn't want to be "accessible" anymore.



Yes, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that's exactly what I was driving at- The industry developed from the conditions surrounding it, and such "conditions" include the very same "kinda creepy" target market...

Those same knife-wielding creeps would be there whether those companies made the rules or not. The rules don't make the creeps. The creeps reward the rule-making.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

nanikore2 wrote:
Yes, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that's exactly what I was driving at- The industry developed from the conditions surrounding it, and such "conditions" include the very same "kinda creepy" target market...

Those same knife-wielding creeps would be there whether those companies made the rules or not. The rules don't make the creeps. The creeps reward the rule-making.


Targeting that market is a conscious choice though. The companies aren't helpless to do anything but target said market of creepiness. They do this intentionally.

The problem, at its core, is that the Japanese idol/pop industry is ultimately selling you a pretend girlfriend. Not a singer or an actress. They have events where the creepies can go and the girls have to shake their hand, hug, smile, hang out with them and generally pretend they're totally into them. If you're not right in the head you can believe that genuinely instead of see it as a marketing stunt. Then when you get spurned because you crossed a line from their professional persona to their personal one you do what delusional stalkery types do and start getting stabby.

This poor girl got stabbed because she didn't go along with his company reinforced delusion. But she's forced to present that delusion because if she doesn't her agency can and will nix her career. Its not a healthy enviroment in any way shape or form, but the people with the power to change it are reinforcing it instead of improving the situation.

Edit: Also, the security situation and policing situation around this kind of shit seems really poor as well. Even putting aside the hundreds of threatening Twitter messages it looks like this guy actually found and chased her once before in Jan after a concert.

It seems Japan's anti-stalking law doesn't cover social media. Or rather it doesn't consider social media to be harassing if the messages being posted are viewable by others ( ala Twitter ).
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
Yes, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that's exactly what I was driving at- The industry developed from the conditions surrounding it, and such "conditions" include the very same "kinda creepy" target market...

Those same knife-wielding creeps would be there whether those companies made the rules or not. The rules don't make the creeps. The creeps reward the rule-making.


Targeting that market is a conscious choice though. The companies aren't helpless to do anything but target said market of creepiness. They do this intentionally.

The problem, at its core, is that the Japanese idol/pop industry is ultimately selling you a pretend girlfriend. Not a singer or an actress. They have events where the creepies can go and the girls have to shake their hand, hug, smile, hang out with them and generally pretend they're totally into them. If you're not right in the head you can believe that genuinely instead of see it as a marketing stunt. Then when you get spurned because you crossed a line from their professional persona to their personal one you do what delusional stalkery types do and start getting stabby.

This poor girl got stabbed because she didn't go along with his company reinforced delusion. But she's forced to present that delusion because if she doesn't her agency can and will nix her career. Its not a healthy enviroment in any way shape or form, but the people with the power to change it are reinforcing it instead of improving the situation.

Edit: Also, the security situation and policing situation around this kind of shit seems really poor as well. Even putting aside the hundreds of threatening Twitter messages it looks like this guy actually found and chased her once before in Jan after a concert.

It seems Japan's anti-stalking law doesn't cover social media. Or rather it doesn't consider social media to be harassing if the messages being posted are viewable by others ( ala Twitter ).


Of course the company is doing it consciously- To make money off of the environment. Again, like you've said yourself, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that was my point. The rules result from that money-making enterprise.

The delusional and crazy are going to be delusional and crazy whether the rules are there or not. The rules are totally different for WTA tennis players yet Monica Seles got stabbed in a back anyways.

You paint a picture where Japanese fans are made into delusional people. That's just false. How do you know the lot of them are delusional? That even the majority couldn't separate life from pretend? That smells a bit discriminatory to me.
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Posted 5/25/16

nanikore2 wrote:


runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
Yes, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that's exactly what I was driving at- The industry developed from the conditions surrounding it, and such "conditions" include the very same "kinda creepy" target market...

Those same knife-wielding creeps would be there whether those companies made the rules or not. The rules don't make the creeps. The creeps reward the rule-making.


Targeting that market is a conscious choice though. The companies aren't helpless to do anything but target said market of creepiness. They do this intentionally.

The problem, at its core, is that the Japanese idol/pop industry is ultimately selling you a pretend girlfriend. Not a singer or an actress. They have events where the creepies can go and the girls have to shake their hand, hug, smile, hang out with them and generally pretend they're totally into them. If you're not right in the head you can believe that genuinely instead of see it as a marketing stunt. Then when you get spurned because you crossed a line from their professional persona to their personal one you do what delusional stalkery types do and start getting stabby.

This poor girl got stabbed because she didn't go along with his company reinforced delusion. But she's forced to present that delusion because if she doesn't her agency can and will nix her career. Its not a healthy enviroment in any way shape or form, but the people with the power to change it are reinforcing it instead of improving the situation.

Edit: Also, the security situation and policing situation around this kind of shit seems really poor as well. Even putting aside the hundreds of threatening Twitter messages it looks like this guy actually found and chased her once before in Jan after a concert.

It seems Japan's anti-stalking law doesn't cover social media. Or rather it doesn't consider social media to be harassing if the messages being posted are viewable by others ( ala Twitter ).


Of course the company is doing it consciously- To make money off of the environment. Again, like you've said yourself, industries don't develop in a vacuum and that was my point. The rules result from that money-making enterprise.

The delusional and crazy are going to be delusional and crazy whether the rules are there or not. The rules are totally different for WTA tennis players yet Monica Seles got stabbed in a back anyways.

You paint a picture where Japanese fans are made into delusional people. That's just false. How do you know the lot of them are delusional? That even the majority couldn't separate life from pretend? That smells a bit discriminatory to me.


You're right that the picture where japanese fans are made into delusional people is false, but that still doesn't mean that there's no delusional people among them or that some might become that way along the way. It's still possible for maybe one in a number of fans to become that way. It's that way for any kind of people wherever, not just Japanese fans. All you have to do is google about celebs in america having to deal with stalkers, and you're sure to find something.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

nanikore2 wrote:
You paint a picture where Japanese fans are made into delusional people. That's just false. How do you know the lot of them are delusional? That even the majority couldn't separate life from pretend? That smells a bit discriminatory to me.


I wasn't painting such a picture. I said such people will exist regardless. But creating an enviroment where their behaviour is acceptable is obviously dangerous. Doing so in the name of making more money off the backs of young girls is morally dubious. Not having adequate police or security measures in place is downright negligent.

Again, this is an industry based on essentially selling you a pretend girlfriend ( Which is kind of a theme with Japan if you haven't notice ). If you're not playing with a full deck and can't recognize its pretend there will be problems. Even if you are playing with a full deck, the company is basically using young girls to pray on young men. The whole thing is pretty farked up to be honest.

As for Monica Seles, she was stabbed by a fan of an opposing player Seles had beat. He wasn't trying to kill Seles for spurning his love. But I'm not sure what that brings to the debate here. As I fully acknowledged delusional/stalker types exist regardless. My point is the enviroment around Japanese idols/pop stars encourages the behaviour while not doing much to protect the idols from the consequences of it.

I mean the guy that stabbed this poor girl. He was able to get to her not once but twice at her events. The first time he chased her around till she fled in a cab. A few months later he catches her again and stabs her 20 times. In between that, there were hundreds of twitter messages including ones about stabbing her. But like I said Twitter messages don't technically fall under Japan's anti-stalking laws and the police decided the threats weren't worth looking into. Her agency meanwhile obviously did little to nothing security wise.

Why? All because she turned him down.

Considering this is coming on the heels of the saw attack on AKB48 the year before last these companies and the Japanese legal system need to get their shit together.



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Posted 5/25/16
Wow, what a despicable man. And she's only 20 years old! This psychopath should never see the light of day again. I don't know of her but hopefully she makes it. No doubt she'd be scarred both physically and emotionally for life. This should serve as an example to the Japanese police to take obsessive fans seriously. An obsession is a dangerous thing.
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Posted 5/25/16

vk999 wrote:

You're right that the picture where japanese fans are made into delusional people is false, but that still doesn't mean that there's no delusional people among them or that some might become that way along the way. It's still possible for maybe one in a number of fans to become that way. It's that way for any kind of people wherever, not just Japanese fans. All you have to do is google about celebs in america having to deal with stalkers, and you're sure to find something.


Of course there are delusional people, and I'm certain not denying it- There are delusional people everywhere in pretty much every fandom there is. It's when a specific fandom is somehow made to look more delusional that I have a problem with.
Posted 5/25/16
I hope she pulls through. Given that this isn't the first attack on idols or idol groups recently, I wonder what they are going to do for future security measures.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
You paint a picture where Japanese fans are made into delusional people. That's just false. How do you know the lot of them are delusional? That even the majority couldn't separate life from pretend? That smells a bit discriminatory to me.


Again, this is an industry based on essentially selling you a pretend girlfriend ( Which is kind of a theme with Japan if you haven't notice ). If you're not playing with a full deck and can't recognize its pretend there will be problems. Even if you are playing with a full deck, the company is basically using young girls to pray on young men. The whole thing is pretty farked up to be honest.

Considering this is coming on the heels of the saw attack on AKB48 the year before last these companies and the Japanese legal system need to get their shit together.





The Japanese legal system and the companies need to afford the idols more protection sure, but what you've said goes beyond it.

It's a demonetization of idol fandom, idol culture and ironically even idols such as Tomita herself, the subject of this very thread. Is she somehow whoring herself out on some level to these fans, to put it bluntly? That's the insinuating language between the lines of "pretend girlfriend" and "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy"

I beg to differ. http://aramajapan.com/aramaexclusive/idol-industry-expose-arama-japan-interviews-former-idol-keekihime/7546/

Such debasing POV is narrow and underinformed. Look around CR threads and how many of them are about "waifu" and "husbando"? Much of the anime industry itself contain these fantasy elements. The fringe is always going to exist no matter what as you've also indicated, and that offers even less of an excuse to look down at the subject of idols as a whole.

Direct your disgust and animus at the attacker, the industry which isn't doing enough as well as the Japanese police, and not idol fandom, idol culture, idols or idol fans such as myself.
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Posted 5/25/16
I hope she survives. Poor woman.
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Posted 5/25/16
Christ alive. And when I looked at the reason she was attacked, it reminded me of something that was mentioned in one of the panels I partook in at Anime Detour last year (2015). Now, I forget every explicit detail, but basically, Japanese people take gifting very seriously.

Hopefully she'll be alright, though. How can a person call himself a fan after attacking someone or something he is a fan of?
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Posted 5/25/16

nanikore2 wrote:
It's a demonetization of idol fandom, idol culture and ironically even idols such as Tomita herself, the subject of this very thread. Is she somehow whoring herself out on some level to these fans, to put it bluntly? That's the insinuating language between the lines of "pretend girlfriend" and "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy"


Back the fuck up. I never implied anything like that. If thats what you want to read, fine, I can't stop you but don't stuff words in my mouth just so you can get upset about it.




...what was that suppose to prove? She just confirms the purity clauses, etc of the industry.



nanikore2 wrote:
Direct your disgust and animus at the attacker, the industry which isn't doing enough as well as the Japanese police, and not idol fandom, idol culture, idols or idol fans such as myself.


You finding a way to take this personally doesn't change anything I've said.

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Posted 5/25/16
I don't have the heart to make jokes on this one.
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Posted 5/25/16
Sometimes I feel like the Japanese image of Otaku is overblown and harmful. Sometimes I am proven wrong.
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