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Post Reply Japanese pop star in critical condition after knife attack by fan
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16
I never knew something like this could happen in Japan. I thought crime was minuscule over there, but drama? I don't think so. My zodiac is the snake and most folks of my zodiac don't like people born in the year of the pig (like the pop star), but still! that resentment has gone too far.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
It's a demonetization of idol fandom, idol culture and ironically even idols such as Tomita herself, the subject of this very thread. Is she somehow whoring herself out on some level to these fans, to put it bluntly? That's the insinuating language between the lines of "pretend girlfriend" and "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy"


Back the fuck up. I never implied anything like that. If thats what you want to read, fine, I can't stop you but don't stuff words in my mouth just so you can get upset about it.




Just how exactly else "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" is supposed to be interpreted, except as a judgmental edict?




...what was that suppose to prove? She just confirms the purity clauses, etc of the industry.


That's all you've read from it? Read it again. What did she receive from the fans, and what did she want to give to them? Again, does that wholly justify pronouncements such as "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" and "scary entitlement"?
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Posted 5/25/16
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Posted 5/25/16
Damn.
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Posted 5/25/16
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

nanikore2 wrote:
Just how exactly else "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" is supposed to be interpreted, except as a judgmental edict?


Not as "whoring herself out".



nanikore2 wrote:
That's all you've read from it? Read it again. What did she receive from the fans, and what did she want to give to them? Again, does that wholly justify pronouncements such as "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" and "scary entitlement"?


So, explain to me then. Why is a bunch of grown men lining up for a chance to touch underage Japanese girls not kind of creepy? Or purity policing young girls? Why did that one poor girl from AKB48 have to shave her head, cry and grovel on Youtube for the fans? How is demanding an endless supply of virginal innocent girls to fawn over *not* creepy? You don't actually have to sing or dance or anything to be an idol after all. Just be cute and innocent.

Posted 5/25/16
Fucking deranged crazy stalker people. They give the harmless variety a bad name :/



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Posted 5/26/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
Just how exactly else "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" is supposed to be interpreted, except as a judgmental edict?


Not as "whoring herself out".



nanikore2 wrote:
That's all you've read from it? Read it again. What did she receive from the fans, and what did she want to give to them? Again, does that wholly justify pronouncements such as "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" and "scary entitlement"?


So, explain to me then. Why is a bunch of grown men lining up for a chance to touch underage Japanese girls not kind of creepy? Or purity policing young girls? Why did that one poor girl from AKB48 have to shave her head, cry and grovel on Youtube for the fans? How is demanding an endless supply of virginal innocent girls to fawn over *not* creepy? You don't actually have to sing or dance or anything to be an idol after all. Just be cute and innocent.



To be honest, I see your point. When that incident with the AKB48 girl on YouTube happened, I kinda thought that this was going too far. Some aspects of the industry are extreme, in cases of what the girls sacrifice, how the companies treat these girls, and how the fans view them that I would find disturbing. But I don't think the general population of the target market are as extreme as it sounds like you're making. Sure, there are those with warped senses probably due to how the girls are marketed combined with the norms of the industry. But that's only few of the many people who are probably in it because they enjoyed the idols' works.
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Posted 5/26/16 , edited 5/26/16

runec wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
Just how exactly else "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" is supposed to be interpreted, except as a judgmental edict?


Not as "whoring herself out".



nanikore2 wrote:
That's all you've read from it? Read it again. What did she receive from the fans, and what did she want to give to them? Again, does that wholly justify pronouncements such as "The target market just happens to be kinda creepy" and "scary entitlement"?


So, explain to me then. Why is a bunch of grown men lining up for a chance to touch underage Japanese girls not kind of creepy? Or purity policing young girls? Why did that one poor girl from AKB48 have to shave her head, cry and grovel on Youtube for the fans? How is demanding an endless supply of virginal innocent girls to fawn over *not* creepy? You don't actually have to sing or dance or anything to be an idol after all. Just be cute and innocent.



Then what is the interpretation? Is it a judgemental edict or not?

What kind of "touch" and where did you see it?

Why did people kill themselves over postings on Facebook? Would it be because Facebook users in general are scum? Perhaps you would make a statement regarding tennis fans. What did Keekihime say regarding these sorts of things? Obviously you learned nothing from that article.

"Demanding an endless supply"? Where exactly did that come from? Again you have the causal attribution in reverse. The fans didn't go out and demand an endless supply. The companies created the demand (see the history of AKB48 itself) by providing the supply to relieve cash from those who would gladly spend money. After all, I didn't specifically demand any of those figurines I've bought. Those companies made them, and I wanted to spend money after I saw them.
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Posted 5/26/16

nanikore2 wrote:


vk999 wrote:

You're right that the picture where japanese fans are made into delusional people is false, but that still doesn't mean that there's no delusional people among them or that some might become that way along the way. It's still possible for maybe one in a number of fans to become that way. It's that way for any kind of people wherever, not just Japanese fans. All you have to do is google about celebs in america having to deal with stalkers, and you're sure to find something.


Of course there are delusional people, and I'm certain not denying it- There are delusional people everywhere in pretty much every fandom there is. It's when a specific fandom is somehow made to look more delusional that I have a problem with.


Um . . . That was the point i was trying to make. That i agree. That a whole group shouldn't be labeled as delusional.
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Posted 5/26/16
There are some facts that people may not know about this case.

These are some comments by someone who isn't an idol fan but works in the indie music industry.

from comments section of http://aramajapan.com/news/idol-mayu-tomita-stabbed-over-20-times/59024/


You apparently have never worked a meet and greet event for these types of artists then. The crazies are there, regardless of genre. They send/give expensive gifts, try pass out their personal contact info, shake hands for an uncomfortably long time, fight with other fans for a sense of superiority in the ranks, and if at some point offended by the lack of response from the artist they tend to become extremely aggressive on social media toward the artist and other fans.
The reason this direct violence is more common for idols is less to do with the culture they build and more to do with access. Idols do more face-to-face events with fans than bands and certain pop artists. This increases the likelihood of an occurrence. As noted before, this kind of violence is more common for women. most popular female artists as they grow in popularity will tend to decrease the number of face to face events because of the difficulty and sometimes potential dangers. Idols tend to maintain direct contact events even if their popularity increases.
One could argue that putting idols in these face-to-face scenarios is negligent, but running by the numbers this kind of serious violence is not that common in idol meet and greets.
Particularly in this case it seems to be that this young woman was operating rather independently for this live event. See the title of "idol attacked by fan" is sensational, but it was not a "secret girls" event, and it seems she hasn't been with her old management since 2014. She appears to be doing these live shows by herself (based on current info)
So rather than this being a failure of idol culture, it sounds like she (like many other female artists regardless of genre) had a stalker who became violent with her. She just happens to be a former idol, but I've known many independent female artists who experience the same.
Problem with sexism? Violent fanatic men (though men are victims of the same sometimes)? Sure, but no, idols didn't create this or pour oil on the flames.


Regarding the AKB48 incident that people bring up all the time, by another responder:


That this has anything to do with the idol industry is bullshit.

The AKB "fan" who stabbed two members was never a fan. There was no evidence of him enjoying anything to do with AKB, and he never bought CDs, attended events, etc. so didn't partake in any of the activities that supposedly cultivate creepy behaviour.

This girl didn't do any activities that are said to lead to this. What about her activities do you think caters to creepy weirdos? Because in my research I can find nothing. The entire Japanese media, and translated Japanese news is portraying this girl as an idol whereas by the looks of it, she's a former idol current singer-songwriter, and her stalker situation started during this phase of her career. The only reason that she's an "idol" instead of "singer songwriter" is being picked up is because it feeds into the "otaku are dangerous" rhetoric. Will people fall for it? Of course.

It's horror movies! Bullshit.
It's video games! BS
It's pornography! Give me a break.
It's the idol industry! That's the only explanation!!!


Some, including members of the media, like to demonize the idol industry and its fans because of their personal dislike for it. That still doesn't excuse the spread of falsehoods.

Again, this is a link I posted earlier in the thread. It's from the perspective of a former idol. Be sure to digest the whole thing, not just the parts that conveniently fits into a stereotypical conclusion. http://aramajapan.com/aramaexclusive/idol-industry-expose-arama-japan-interviews-former-idol-keekihime/7546/
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Posted 5/27/16 , edited 5/27/16
Sadly, the media will always be used to demonize something by spreading falsehoods. Just look at the media here in the USA. People in the media have said a lot of BS about a lot of things, to the point where to me it looked like they are partly at fault for the interference of justice and the inflation of negative social issues.

I think it's safe to say for sure that the Idol Industry is full of social issues that are going to negatively impact the lives of the girls who enter it. And one other thing for sure is that these issues are not going to be resolved any time soon, if ever.

But for now, I just want to know how the poor girl is doing. Is there any news about how she's doing?
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Posted 5/27/16

vk999 wrote:
Sure, there are those with warped senses probably due to how the girls are marketed combined with the norms of the industry. But that's only few of the many people who are probably in it because they enjoyed the idols' works.


I think its more than a few otherwise the live events wouldn't be such a big thing for them. As for enjoying the idols work, ehhh. Perhaps in the case of strictly singers or the broader sense of enjoying the theme of a particular group ( Groups tend to have fantasy themes. Its almost like wrestling. ). But the idol themselves are pretty interchangeable. AKB has over 100 members after all with members regularly being promoted trainee to main groups and demoted back down.

By its very nature the members need to turn over because the groups need to stay as perpetually young, "pure" girls. When you get too old you "graduate" and leave the group. Then get replaced by a younger girl. They're more sports teams with a really narrow window of opportunity for the players.




nanikore2 wrote:
Then what is the interpretation? Is it a judgemental edict or not?


The interpretation is as stated in the actual words. If you can't handle an observation of the industry without taking it personally you may not be objective enough to discuss this. -.-



nanikore2 wrote:Why did people kill themselves over postings on Facebook? Would it be because Facebook users in general are scum? Perhaps you would make a statement regarding tennis fans. What did Keekihime say regarding these sorts of things? Obviously you learned nothing from that article.


Facebook has nothing to do with this and you're seriously stretching to make comparisons here.



nanikore2 wrote:
The fans didn't go out and demand an endless supply. The companies created the demand (see the history of AKB48 itself) by providing the supply to relieve cash from those who would gladly spend money. After all, I didn't specifically demand any of those figurines I've bought. Those companies made them, and I wanted to spend money after I saw them.


What are you even trying to argue? It doesn't even matter if the egg or the chicken came first. It doesn't abdicate the fan base of responsibility for the situation. For there to be supply, there must be demand. You're not a mindless automaton that responds to external stimuli with cash.

And so what with your figurines? Thats a physical product and saying "I didn't know I wanted it till I saw it" is no defense of the current situation of the idol industry and culture. There are many who wanted figurines before they saw them. I imagine you wanted related merchandise to begin with before you saw figurines.

My problem here is that there's a whole industry/culture devoted to controlling and exploiting young girls. One that its consumer base gladly encourages and rewards. One that is even more blatant and cynical about it than the western entertainment industry. While not offering near the same level of security.

Your problem here is, apparently, that by making that observation I have personally offended you. Which, whatever, fine. You can act offended all you want but don't try and defend this shit by pointing at Facebook or Monica Seles like its the same thing or that it excuses it. Its not and it doesn't. Window shopping till you see something you like doesn't abdicate your responsibility for buying it.








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Posted 5/27/16

vk999 wrote:
But for now, I just want to know how the poor girl is doing. Is there any news about how she's doing?


Still in a coma.

Looks like there are a lot of police failures coming out of it now too. The stalker previously stalked someone else and threatened her as well. But the police never recorded his name in the case file so it didn't get linked to when he started stalking Mayu. They called him and asked him to come in for questioning, he refused, and apparently thats all you need to do in Japan. Because the cops shrugged, closed the file and moved on.

Plus, she was attacked when she called 911 and the dispatcher sent the cops to her house instead of checking her cell phone location.

So really she was just failed by everyone involved here.

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Posted 5/27/16 , edited 5/27/16

vk999 wrote:
Some aspects of the industry are extreme, in cases of what the girls sacrifice, how the companies treat these girls, and how the fans view them that I would find disturbing.
well short lived industry caan be really harsh in.. well everything.
hopefully don't attract the wrong community/crowd (some that might want to become..quite close)
Else sure some of those girls really don't know what they are going into and that I think is quite a problem..

Also how you do conserts and what you give in content or about yourself can really effect what type of people you will be getting.
From dressing, acting, marketing and etc.


runec wrote: Still in a coma.
Plus, she was attacked when she called 911 and the dispatcher sent the cops to her house instead of checking her cell phone location.

So really she was just failed by everyone involved here.
yeah, and really that bad recording or keeping track of such things?
Dunno how tracking is today, but I guess they didn't think..maybe?
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