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Post Reply Anyone had this cycle in your town.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 5/25/16

runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Free markets only work with other free markets. The Chinese are not a free market they are a weird form of state controlled capitalism. They produce certain goods at a loss for decades just to kill off foreign competition then keep it artificially low to control an industry(See rare earths). They are playing our systems weaknesses and winning because people don't have the balls to stand up to them and stop it.


They are dicks about rare earth metals. But throttling production to increase demand is a time honoured tradition and not unique to China.

They aren't throttling production unless they are trying to wage an economic war against a certain country. They are over producing and ignoring environmental concerns causing massive pollution that is so bad they cannot drink their own water. To keep the prices artificially low and the market flooded. They now have 98% of the rare earth production because of their bullshit tactics. They also have 60% undrinkable ground water...


runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:Our goods are artifically low anyways. They will just return to normal pricing not being lowered due to slave labor, lack of any environmental controls, and decent wages. I for one welcome a trade war with China. The USA only stands to benefit from it while China will have a collapse of their industry and internal turmoil. Then we can reopen our factories and do something about our horrible unemployment rate. If a trade war does happen the Chinese will be forced to sell their people their own goods and then the cost of everything in China will change and normalize.


If goods rise to the cost to produce them in the US you will need some serious, serious wage hikes for people to be able to afford them. China meanwhile has more customers than just you. The EU is a larger importer of Chinese goods than you are. Plus China imports electronic components from the EU and Japan as well to make your smartphones and what not as well. So you'll have definitely have a ripple effect that hurts other markets and pressure from them to stop dicking around.

No one is reopening a factory in the US. American companies will just move to the next country over that has cheap labour and manufacturing costs ( India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc ). Meanwhile China will backlash against goods it imports from you. Which, again, are mostly industrial machinery. So you'll hurt what industrial manufacturing you still have. And thats before you even get into raw materials you import from China for your domestic manufacturing.

Again, those jobs are never, ever coming back to the US. Nor did China even actually take them in the first place.


Low wages result from too much labor and not enough work. Obviously when you have too much laborers you pay them each less because they are less valuable, at least on paper. When there are a lack of workers or its hard to obtain them you increase wages to attract workers.

We have a lack of jobs for people that aren't highly educated and we have exported a lot of those jobs overseas. They now work shit jobs which means less money is circulating in the area and decreases the need for highly educated jobs. Their wages aren't increasing because there are too many of them and no manufacturing jobs to be had. Manufacturing jobs were typically the jobs of the middle class and since they have been gutted we have those that make LARGE amounts of money and those that barely make enough.

Most of my stuff comes from Taiwan anyways, they are the only Chinese that have dignity and can produce good products. Sure they cost a little more but they last MUCH longer so I pay less in the long run.

Thats why you tie tariffs to ways they are avoiding costs instead of to a specific country. You make it so no matter where they go that tariff would apply so it is equally viable to produce in the USA vs a country with no regulations.

I could go into economics and how to increase all workers wages but you can just go to college to get that same info.


runec wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Add a tariff for environmental costs, add one for lack of safety, add one for slave labor, add one for workmans comp. Any Chinese company that meets our standards has no additional tariff added. Any that doens't meet our standards has the tariffs added. It will give our companies and other companies that play fairly a level playing field. Ones that exploit their people will be completely screwed. All China has to do is play fairly and they can avoid such tariffs.


They're not going to give up cost effective manufacturing because you tariff'd one country and you can't go around starting a trade war with each new country they move manufacturing too. Not only would you be causing economic turmoil both at home and abroad but you'll get retaliatory tariffs from each country you screw with. Plus possible sanctions from other countries for crossing the WTO.




You apply a general tariff that applys to any country that doesn't play fair. If the country doesn't want the tariff play fair. It will hurt countrys that are trying to screw us or their people but for countries that are playing fair they will get a HUGE boost, India especially.

If the WTO won't punish China than we have to. Once we do it other countries will follow suit.
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Posted 5/25/16
Try thinking outside the box. You're thinking you need to find a job to work /for/ someone. But why not work for yourself? Try freelancing. Like with fiverr or taskrabbit.

Businesses and normal people need small things you can do. Then as you gain more experience you "level up" and get higher-paying clients.

At first you might start out making $80 / week, but after a while that'll be $200 / week.
runec 
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Posted 5/25/16

Rujikin wrote:
They aren't throttling production unless they are trying to wage an economic war against a certain country. They are over producing and ignoring environmental concerns causing massive pollution that is so bad they cannot drink their own water. To keep the prices artificially low and the market flooded. They now have 98% of the rare earth production because of their bullshit tactics. They also have 60% undrinkable ground water...


Actually it was the reverse. They were under producing and claiming they were doing so out of "environmental concern" <cough>. While yes, they did cut off Japan's supply at one point. They got slapped by the WTO though and had to lift their export throttling last year. At this point however almost half the rare earth mining is out of China's control and in the hands of illegal mining operations. Which yeah, is causing an abundance.




Rujikin wrote:
Thats why you tie tariffs to ways they are avoiding costs instead of to a specific country. You make it so no matter where they go that tariff would apply so it is equally viable to produce in the USA vs a country with no regulations.

I could go into economics and how to increase all workers wages but you can just go to college to get that same info.


The tariffs would have to be absurd to level the playing field. Again, you'd just fuck up the global economy and likely put yourself in a recession. While also likely running afoul of the WTO. You're not getting those manufacturing jobs back no matter what you do. People need to be looking at expanding and investing in new industries. Not sitting around pining for the good ol' days when the steel mill was still running.

Perhaps you should go there yourself and see how throwing tariffs on the rest of the world would play out ;p



Rujikin wrote:
You apply a general tariff that applys to any country that doesn't play fair. If the country doesn't want the tariff play fair. It will hurt countrys that are trying to screw us or their people but for countries that are playing fair they will get a HUGE boost, India especially.

If the WTO won't punish China than we have to. Once we do it other countries will follow suit.


Trade is not a one way street. It would hurt you just as readily as the countries you're trying to punish for not playing "fair". And said countries are trade partners with each other as well. Plus no one else is going to go along with such a plan ( especially not American businesses ). The US is a significant market but unless you can shut down all of China's trade partners they have other customers.

All you'd accomplish is fucking up your economy and the world economy. Again.





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Posted 5/26/16

ck1west

> Not judging giving some advice they can make a decision on own time? oh also just a note Idid not even have internet young one
when i started on my jobs yes long ago.. just FYI passing some info.


You didn't state that in your first post. You mentioned that there are jobs found via internet with no clear distinction about different job searches or time differences. That is why I had given you the response that I did.

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Posted 5/26/16 , edited 5/26/16
Sure I got a bicycle like that in my town!



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