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What's the Point Of Debates Here?
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16
No one changes their mind except me. And I don't recall the last time someone apologized or aknowledged for getting something wrong besides me.

It is the same few people who consistently say "hur-dur-dur I'm right" and "that's a LIBERALZ (or just as often, BIGOTED) source" when confronted with overwhelming evidence in the form of controlled studies, statistics, etc, and I'm sick of it.

Seriously, "evolution is a myth propagated by the left"? "Bruce Jenner needs to give others the courage to say they need help"?

Quoting various sources from Daily Kos to even fucking Infowars, then claim anything to the left or right of their own views are " biased"?

Sources:

Transgenders

Detailed Review of Incarceration of Transgender People
http://www.jaapl.org/content/41/4/551.long

What constitutes treatment for transgender people, what are the standards of care, and what are the outcomes of that care?

APA Treatment Guidelines, Rationales
https://www.apa.org/practice/guidelines/transgender.pdf

I feel I must highlight the following statement in the APA's guidelines:


A person’s identification as [transgender/gender nonconforming] can be healthy and self-affirming, and is not inherently pathological. However, people may experience distress associated with discordance between their gender identity and their body or sex assigned at birth, as well as societal stigma and discrimination


WPATH Treatment Guidelines, Rationales
http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT%20SOC,%20V7.pdf

Overview of Transgender Population, Pharmacological Treatment Protocols
https://www.samford.edu/pharmacy/files/CHIPOR/CLIPS/2016/0201TransgenderTXT.pdf

Review Article: Hormone Therapy for Transgender People Is, Despite Some Risks, Safe With Physician Supervision
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214623715000496

SRS May Be Metabolically Protective Relative to Hormone Therapy Alone
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151118160140.htm

What issues are related to transgender healthcare access, quality, and outcomes?

Discrimination Against Transgender People in Healthcare Services
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140218110431.htm

Transgender People Are Avoiding Clinics
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150424121116.htm

Medical Students Lack Resources Needed to Address Transgender Healthcare Needs
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131211132720.htm

Care Providers Generally Do Not Feel Comfortable With Ability to Provide Transgender Healthcare
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160229081850.htm

Discrimination Linked With Damaged Health
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150929142028.htm

Is there any research suggesting a biological basis for transgender identification?

Review Article Suggests Potential Biological Underpinnings for Gender Identity
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm

Twin Study Indicates Potential for Genetic Component
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html

FTM Genetic Differences in CYP17
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282%2807%2901228-9/fulltext

MTF Transsexual Genetic Differences in Androgen Receptor
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/

All of this was copied from BlueOni's post. Thank you Oni. Hope you're not angry or anything.


Evolution

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence

Another one discrediting a few arguments used against evolution

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

The next one aptly describes evidence and even provides a tidbit on Charle's Darwin, who despite his religious belief rejected a literal interpretation of the bible.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/lines_01

Global Warming

Global Warming and Cooling During the Industrial Era of the 40s-70s

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Aerosols/page1.php

https://www.aip.org/history/climate/aerosol.htm

http://www.roperld.com/science/GlobalWarming_Dimming.htm

Evidence for Global Warming/Consensus by National or International Bodie, Etc.

http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/main.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/science-and-impacts/global-warming-science

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seven-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense/
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Posted 5/25/16
Okay, well-- holy shit that's a lot of... stuff...

It's a pretty self-explanatory thing. People hate being in the wrong. It's frustrating, I know, and there are some people who do actually apologize and say "I was in the wrong, and you were right" and they're okay with that. But most people aren't like that. Hell, even I have a hard time apologizing, but I'm constantly trying to change it.

But yeah, people just are like that-- especially people on the internet.
Our species is... kinda disgusting to me.
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Posted 5/25/16
Cognitive dissonance.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16
I don't see anything in the definition of: debate, relating to or regarding rights and wrongs. Just one's own perspective of: argumentative and on what subject that would/should be. I'm guessing the point of debating is subjective in nature, altogether.

Me. I'm a peacekeeper, and most debates look like a hot mess. So my input means nothing, really.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/27/16
The purpose of debate varies from person to person, depending on their intentions. Some look to explore a topic, some just to voice their views. Sometimes it's just to get a rise out of people, to vent, or confirm their own beliefs. Exploring a topic in good faith of all parties involved is pretty rare on the internet.
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Posted 5/25/16
Slightly off topic: I think that the term transgenders is stupid. You wouldn't refer to a person with autism as autist, now would you? Not that it matters a lot, but it's a mistake that's made pretty often even though it could easily be avoided. What I'd suggest is using the terms transgender person/people or just trans.
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Posted 5/25/16
Debates are usually the way I find people insulting other users and give them a warning. If they persist I report them.
Internet debates are often just contests based on how far we can urinate.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

SugarBombCakes wrote:

I don't see anything in the definition of: debate, relating to or regarding rights and wrongs. Just one's own perspective of: argumentative and on what subject that would/should be. I'm guessing the point of debating is subjective in nature, altogether.

Me. I'm a peacekeeper, and most debates look like a hot mess. So my input means nothing, really.


I feel the point of debate is to learn, exchange ideas, and to remedy your wrongs as necessary. To voice their ideas in a one sided manner while not caring to dissect, and ultimately disprove, their opponents arguments, isn't debate. To cite sources they themselves don't care to check isn't debate. It is merely an obsession with being right rather than to "look like a fool", a sort of confirmation bias that that they crave. It's disgusting and they should be executed with extreme prejudice.
Posted 5/25/16
I'll readily admit I was wrong if the opposition has a good argument, I'm not particularly stubborn. I'm happy to learn new things.
But even if it's just a pointless argument where no one wants to admit they could be wrong, it's still fun to exchange opinions and thought processes.
Not to mention internet debates are to me what desperate house wives and soap operas must be to middle aged women.
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Posted 5/25/16
Because some people here throw insults and are flat out rude. Not many people actually know how to have a debate.
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In a basket of de...
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Posted 5/25/16
People like to start controversial threads because they crave attention. OP should know this best.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16
I don't know how to debate and I'm usually wrong. So, I tend stay out of most debates.
Posted 5/25/16
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Posted 5/25/16
Just on the point of "someone apologizing for getting something wrong." That is not the point of a debate, though I have never seen a debate occur on this forum by any actual measure of what a formal debate is. When you state that the point of a debate is to learn, the point of a debate is not to get another party to admit defeat. A lot of people don't realize that true masters of the art of debate can argue both sides of an issue to the point that their audience would accept their stance as fact, be it whichever side they choose. More often than not debating has little to do with factual evidence and more to do with manipulation of said evidence and emotions surrounding them. I think actual debating as a concept is a bit lost on people here at this point in time honestly.

Of course there is also the fact that this is an anime forum and not a Philosophy conference, so I don't really understand what it is you all expect in terms of your version of "debate." It's all well and good to stroke your ego now and then, but don't expect people to grovel and apologize under your false sense of superiority because of your ability Google pop-science articles and often long refuted public domain studies.

I view probably around 98% of arguments (argument, not debate) on this forum as the following format person A has opinion, person B has opinion, person A provides same argument for opinion for 40 posts while citing only evidence that conveniently supports their position, person B also provides same argument for opinion for 40 posts while citing only evidence that conveniently supports their position. The end result is literally nothing changes. Neither side listens to the other because neither side wants to listen, and as such no learning ever occurs.

Note that I wrote this as an in general blanket statement. I'm not pointing at any specific person when I say these things.
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Posted 5/25/16 , edited 5/25/16

mickeydayum wrote:

Just on the point of "someone apologizing for getting something wrong." That is not the point of a debate, though I have never seen a debate occur on this forum by any actual measure of what a formal debate is. When you state that the point of a debate is to learn, the point of a debate is not to get another party to admit defeat. A lot of people don't realize that true masters of the art of debate can argue both sides of an issue to the point that their audience would accept their stance as fact, be it whichever side they choose. More often than not debating has little to do with factual evidence and more to do with manipulation of said evidence and emotions surrounding them. I think actual debating as a concept is a bit lost on people here at this point in time honestly.

Of course there is also the fact that this is an anime forum and not a Philosophy conference, so I don't really understand what it is you all expect in terms of your version of "debate." It's all well and good to stroke your ego now and then, but don't expect people to grovel and apologize under your false sense of superiority because of your ability Google pop-science articles and often long refuted public domain studies.

I view probably around 98% of arguments (argument, not debate) on this forum as the following format person A has opinion, person B has opinion, person A provides same argument for opinion for 40 posts while citing only evidence that conveniently supports their position, person B also provides same argument for opinion for 40 posts while citing only evidence that conveniently supports their position. The end result is literally nothing changes. Neither side listens to the other because neither side wants to listen, and as such no learning ever occurs.

Note that I wrote this as an in general blanket statement. I'm not pointing at any specific person when I say these things.


To apologize for a stance that has been thoroughly debunked I feel is a part of learning, and thus is an essential function of debate, because learning is to admit your mistakes and learn from them. To be fair, this is my personal definition of its purpose to me and they do vary. Although if we get into polemics I guess the whole point really is to completely disprove your opponents claims and counterattacks.


Nor did I merely google pop science articles.
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