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Post Reply Why, Instead Of Attempting To Argue Your Beliefs, Do You Remain Content in Ignoring Posts On The Assumption That You're
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Posted 5/26/16 , edited 5/26/16
Yeah i feel the same way sometimes when people ignore evidence and such but at the same time i understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
If someone has been bought up their whole life being raised to beleive certian views then often they are stuck like that forever, good or bad. People do change though.
I actually have changed quite a bit in my way of thinking and my beliefs.
Whilst we are all effected by the influence and opinoins of others, i try to go by personal experience or facts , try to learn from mistakes and examples and other peoples experiences.
Go by evidence rather than opinion.

I think this question isn't just an on line thing. i mean now alot of people are affraid to say what they truely believe or act on it because of fear of being labeld a "racist" or "bigot' or "sexist" or etc.
People cannot be themselves or express their opinoin because the fear of back lash.

But yeah many of us are guilty of being influenced by our parents or religion or the main stream media and once stuck in our ways no matter the amount of other opposing opinions or evidence provided will change ones mind or persude them to think differently.

There is alot of brainwashing in this world. Alot of not really caring, alot of just thinking everything will be alright. But yeah sometimes i dont really know why i care so much and feel the need to express me opinions on the internet.

You can never win an argument on the internet. Even in person. Once ones mind is set then that is that.
Whilst it can be baffling and frustrating, it can also be enjoyable and entertaining to discuss(what ever the topic may be) and who knows, you just might get through to someone and open their eyes and change their way of thinking?
Happened to me. I used to be on that do gooder shit and time and time again i was smacked in the mouth. I awoke lol

EDIT: but yeah i think people often ignore the thread or dont bother posting because whats the point? you cant win. Too much effort and often you just end up looking like a retard trying to win a unwinnable argument.


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Posted 5/26/16 , edited 5/26/16

auroraloose wrote:
Yeah, I meant the axioms. Because sometimes they change: we used to think there were such things as absolute space, time, and simultaneity, that all waves required media like water waves do, that all traits could be passed down to offspring, that shared morphology always implied common ancestry, that we should expect to find lots of vestigial organs and parts, and lots more. Science doesn't paralyze itself doubting everything; it picks a good direction and sticks with it until it doesn't work. And sometimes that means ignoring or explaining away data that go against our axioms.

All this comes from Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which was one of the most important philosophical texts of the 20th century. (I like saying that; it makes me feel smart.) Here's a good quote from the wikipedia page:


As a paradigm is stretched to its limits, anomalies — failures of the current paradigm to take into account observed phenomena — accumulate. Their significance is judged by the practitioners of the discipline. Some anomalies may be dismissed as errors in observation, others as merely requiring small adjustments to the current paradigm that will be clarified in due course. Some anomalies resolve themselves spontaneously, having increased the available depth of insight along the way. But no matter how great or numerous the anomalies that persist, Kuhn observes, the practicing scientists will not lose faith in the established paradigm until a credible alternative is available; to lose faith in the solvability of the problems would in effect mean ceasing to be a scientist.


Axioms are not believed to be true. Absolute certainty is not taken in science. Axioms are regarded as true so long as they remain unfalsifiable. This is important. Axioms do not claim to be irrefutable. Axioms are not therefore Dogma because they are not claims to being undeniable truth rather than truth taken as self evident until demonstrated otherwise.

You are correct, however, that some scientists may fall into the trap of disregarding evidence against current axioms. This is not, however the mark of a scientist. It is a human trait to favor patterns. It is a mistake to believe in axioms as opposed to simply regarding them as falsifiable truth. Unfortunately, we cannot separate scientists from human nature. I disagree with Kuhn that someone is regarded to be less of a scientist because they 'lose faith' in existing axioms. It is not a matter of faith. Belief is human and not science. When the duality of light and the existence of black holes brought to question current axioms, those that brought it into question did not cease to be scientists. Axioms are reflected upon given evidence of else and with more ease than he seems to hint of. Just a few days ago I remember reading some scientists jumped to say their may be a 5th force of nature. (http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957)

You seem to understand this for the most part, but I really want to stress the difference between Axioms and Dogma. The difference between the falsifiable ideas (eliminate) and unfalsifiable ideas (cannot eliminate).

Thus I must disagree. It would be bad to not acknowledge when we're wrong (as it indicates an unfalsifiable idea). Nonetheless, such mistakes are human, and thus understandable at times. Certainly we cannot doubt everything all the time, but to choose not to acknowledge wrong would--indeed--be a bad thing.

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Posted 5/26/16

Phersu wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

So......welcome back, eldritch abomination. Did you ever post that photo of yourself after the CR forums bested you in forum battle?


Don't ask questions. Just accept it. I'm also kinda surprised you're still here.


Holy shit Phersu the faceless is back?!?!

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Posted 5/26/16

pandrasb wrote:

Holy shit Phersu the faceless is back?!?!



It's not that big of a deal. Seriously.
Posted 5/26/16
When you say that one side is “right” and the other side should just admit that they are “wrong,” you have to keep in mind that people with completely different sets of moral guidelines are never going to agree on what is “wrong” and what is “right.” Case and point: the entire history of the human race, ever. People will always be butthurt and, frankly, I find it a bit ridiculous to just announce that one side is right, hands down.
Posted 5/26/16
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Posted 5/26/16

Phersu wrote:


pandrasb wrote:

Holy shit Phersu the faceless is back?!?!



It's not that big of a deal. Seriously.


k, wb



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Posted 5/26/16

pandrasb wrote:

k, wb





K, thx.

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Posted 5/26/16 , edited 5/26/16
In my experience a lot of people will confuse "conflict" with "arguing".
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Posted 5/26/16

sah36ila wrote:

so if i am muslim i am labeled evil? explain t me this?


Well i wouldn't go as far as saying muslims being evil.The people just aren't very fond off these terrorist groups that claim to be true followers of islams. Imagining standard citizen,who doesn't have many sources...tend to go with most accessible ones.If one sees every day on news "terrorist group x blew a bomb at place y and killed/injured z amount of people". Seeing those kinds of news daily can really give person negative outlook on muslim population especially if one has no dealings with said folk. Every religion, and ideology has it's extremists.But sadly for now muslim ones are loudest and get most media coverage.
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Posted 5/26/16
I think people simply don't have a response a lot of times. That is assuming they see the post. I for some reason do not get notified when my posts are quoted here on CR at least. If I was ever quoted and failed to respond it is highly likely it is because I was never informed someone replied.
That being said most people who post things that get debates usually have one idea very cemented and either want to vent or cause trouble and simply wont respond to anyone actually making points without causing trouble. I think its more annoying when people respond by calling you bad. Recently I asked someone to clarify what they meant by "Nasa's lies" and they told me I was idiot, uninformed and should do my own research. Chill I just asked you to clarify. Pretty sure this guy was someone just wanting trouble though, he had no points and claimed the moon landing was fake and, again, called me an idiot when I asked if he had any sources or reasons he believed it was a lie.
Basically they either have no points, want trouble and those who are good in debates are often to smart to get riled, or they are not informed. CR please at least send a notification if you are quoted.
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Posted 5/26/16
Rather than focusing upon those who, for whatever reason, do not respond to presented information sincerely (if at all) it would be better to focus upon the fact that some people sincerely do. I had a very nice dialogue with someone in the thread about transgender prisoners who asked legitimate methodological and statistical questions about information I presented, and we hashed those issues out. I've had more very nice dialogues on teaching students in primary and secondary schools about transgender people that, although ending with me holding one stance and the person I was speaking with quite another, also ended mutually respectfully. I've explained in detail key references, findings, and conclusions in primary sources initially presented to express opposition to treatments for gender dysphoria that preclude such an interpretation and may have simply been missed, and though I didn't get a reply (meaning I can't assume either way whether my explanation was accepted) I did end up getting a good resource for discussing broader transgender health issues. Good dialogue can and does happen, and that's what really counts. That's when you "win" on the internet. You "lose" when you let the obstinate and disrespectful rule you.

Another factor to consider is that, for as much effort as people put into constructing good dialogue in General (and it is impressive that as many people put as much effort in as they do considering the site's focus and draw is viewing/discussing anime/manga rather than politics, biology, chemistry, medicine, and so on), this is still Crunchyroll. People who come here aren't necessarily familiar with or interested in reading primary literature or interpreting data, so presenting it is only going to be so helpful. When I present such information I try to either cite accessible references to studies like press releases or do my best to explain a primary source, but there's no guarantee that I'll be understood or trusted when I do that. What's more, since explaining and discussing primary literature can take quite a bit of writing in itself (even among those who are familiar with it) a lot of people may simply lose interest either at the outset or halfway through and just not respond. People only have so much energy and free time, after all. Discussing heavy topics here is definitely a labour of love.

Of course, yet another factor to consider is that eventually whatever I write may simply be buried in the back pages of a thread. New contributors may simply not have seen what I wrote. The practical realities of a forum are cruel sometimes.

Anyway, the shorthand, core point is: don't get too worked up about it. This is a thing that happens, and there is good to be found anyway.
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Posted 5/27/16 , edited 5/27/16

Jan- wrote:


sah36ila wrote:

so if i am muslim i am labeled evil? explain t me this?


Well i wouldn't go as far as saying muslims being evil.The people just aren't very fond off these terrorist groups that claim to be true followers of islams. Imagining standard citizen,who doesn't have many sources...tend to go with most accessible ones.If one sees every day on news "terrorist group x blew a bomb at place y and killed/injured z amount of people". Seeing those kinds of news daily can really give person negative outlook on muslim population especially if one has no dealings with said folk. Every religion, and ideology has it's extremists.But sadly for now muslim ones are loudest and get most media coverage.


It's not just about terrorism though.
Its failure to intergrate. The ones who openly express their dislike for our way of life. Disrespect our women, all the sexual harrassment and sexualt assault and rape.
Hearing that in some parts its not safe for a woman dressed in a certian way to go out alone, or telling girls in school to not wear short skirts, considering the introduction of female only trains (not the same as Japan lol), etc
And in some parts it's not safe if you are non Muslim, sharia police patrols, etc
And then there is us having to change our ways to cater for them. Change our way of life and culture and traditions as to not offend.
But dont get me wrong, i am well aware that alot of that sort of thing is actually caused by far left winged, politically correct, SJW, white guilt do gooder white people. They often are the cause of this type of thing.
Then there's the Halal food thing. Its' bullshit. It's a religious tax. Why are companies in non Muslim nations paying a tax to be Halal certified ? so companies make food Halal for Muslims yet pay Muslims in doing so? and the moeny often goes off shore(i know sometimes trade deals are involved).
And with such a small percentage of the population why should we be forced to eat halal food?
And you have Muslims openly talking about how they will take over and we will live under their laws in due time weather we like it or not(not saying all of them but enough).
Places like the UK, Germany and Sweden seem to be the most extreme cases of Muslim problems and do gooder white winged politicians doing ridiculous shit like banning sausages and pork in school(no ham sandwiches), banning the national flag in schools and toning down tradition celibrations because it might be offensive and etc

They dont intergeate , they out breed, they dont make you feel welcome like say when i go to China town or an Indian restaurant. I feel completely safe being surrounded by non Muslim Asians or Italians and Greeks, etc but not in Middle east town. Yes i conceed there IS "some" media effect.

But it is funny that you mention the media coverage. When in truth it's the exact opposite to what you say. Yes, Muslims have been labeled with the "terrorism" lable and there are stories about the extremists who want to take over and stories about the hijab and etc but infact, way more stories are covered up by the media as to not be seen as offensive or "racist"
Do some research. There is f**k ton of evidence of this out there. You tube and Google are your friend.
The media and the left wing politicians are covering up just how bad it is and how much shit has been going down. It's like they are too afraid to report the crimes being commited by the Muslim new arrivals.
I do understand that they dont want to cause race or religious wars and make everyone anti immigration but really it's another example of how weak western nations really are.

And then there is the fact that whilst here in our countires we bend over backwards to suit Muslims needs yet when you go to a Muslim nation its their way or nothing.
Their way or suffer the harsh consequences.
Yet here we let them build all their mosques and have their Halal foods and ban things and change our ways so we dont offend them. You wont get that treatment over in the middle east (special treatment and them being concerned or afraid to offend you, a non Muslim).

Eh i just think people in American and where iam from Australia dont see it. I have friends in the UK and from Russia and India and etc they tell me how it is over there(in parts).
I've never been racist. Only when i was young and dumb and did not like Asians. Wow how that changed lol. And there are some problems between whites and Aboriginals here. But i dont hate whole races and iam a multicultural person.
I even befriended a Muslim guy at work(not asking for a pat on the back , just saying) but i just do not like Islam. By that i mean i feel that it has NO place in the modern western world.

Even all my Asian mates and Europen mates and etc feel the same way. (maybe not all but most)

I do also believe though that America should not try to force Muslims to change their was of life in their own countries. No one has that right. Yet we are allowing it here.
But Germany has to be the worst example. Their female prime minister is a race traitor nut job. Oh the irony lol




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Posted 5/27/16


well that certainly was an long post.And i was not saying that terrorism was only problem.I just like to keep my rants short. True there is integration problems,but what did you expect?the refugees come from extra religious countries to more secular society. the way religions like christianity, islam and judaism work is that they try to fill that void with their own lifestyle. Unfortunately, islam does not see earlhty laws on higher ground that their more religious ones.

And yes they commit crimes too and yes they shoudl be reported whenever they happen and not to cover our eyes from them. But one must not mark whole muslim population as people prone to criminalism and leeching life style. There are some that try to make best of what they have at the moment and integrate to society.The most integration negative people tend to be the first wave muslims:they stick to their own little communities and don't try to mingle with locals.But if they are given jobs and so on perhabs they would integrate better?or at least ehir children and their childrens children.SInce like it or not,seems like these people are here to stay...

And it's true i find it weird that how they demand this and that from their new country. Though one could say if we don't give into these demands evrything should work out eventually...the people will change eventually if system is adamant enough about it's own values.For example attempts to enforce sharia laws could be thwarted by deporting such personel that spread that kind of idea from country. Plain and simple.
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Posted 5/27/16

Phersu wrote:
Shhh, I'm hunting wabbits. Even though it is clearly duck season. But yeah. It is I.


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